Speeding Ticket
10-05-2013, 09:16 AM
#41
Team Owner
This happened just up the road from me.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...t-killed-girl/
But some people don't learn from others......
http://www.phillyburbs.com/my_town/d....html?mode=jqm
I now tend to avoid that road at night...
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...t-killed-girl/
But some people don't learn from others......
http://www.phillyburbs.com/my_town/d....html?mode=jqm
I now tend to avoid that road at night...
With respect to the second article you posted, these 2 (3) idiots were racing up and down the road in both directions, making 2-3 passes at a time? Given all that, isn't there an increased police presence there?
And yeah....I don't blame you for avoiding the area.
10-05-2013, 01:57 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
Typical responses in here...ughhh...
OP...the simple facts of fighting any citation are, scrutinize the probable cause necessary to validate the stop.
A. Did you admit to speeding to the officer? This is a key. (HINT: When getting cited for ANYTHING...never admit guilt to the officer, never say you did anything, instead question them; where were you when you saw me, how did you know my speed, why are you stopping me, etc. Many police make stops that lack probable cause and get away with it because people don't force the state to prove their case. The burden of proof is ON THEM)
B. If you're paced then there are several measures which MUST exist, to validate the evidence. 1. The speedometer must be calibrated by an approved agency within an approved period of time. 2. The speed must be paced for a minimum distance to be considered accurate. 3. The agency who did the calibration must have proof they are approved by the state to do so, and have proof of the calibration.
C. If you request these documents prior to your hearing, they are required to provide them. If they do not provide any piece of the puzzle IN ORIGINAL FORM (not photocopies) then cite the "best evidence rule" which requires original documents, then you can have the case dismissed.
So, file a request for:
Proof of calibration of the speedometer
Proof the agency who calibrated it is approved by the state dept of authority
If documents are photocopied at time of trial ask for dismissal based on the "best evidence" rule and failure to provide real and original copies to verify authenticity.
Scrutinize the distance in which the officer paced you.
Work you need to do:
Know how often they must calibrate the speedo
Know the rules about how often the agency that calibrates must be recertified or if they have proof they are approved agencies
Know the facts surrounding how long the officer paced you (did he tell you when he stopped you, etc). Know how far the law requires to make the pacing valid. Most states is 3/10's of a mile with an unobstructed view.
If you can't put all this together and you feel overwhelmed...
Plead not guilty
Go to the hearing and try your best to talk to the officer or DA that will represent the state. See if you can work out a plea arrangement.
If this doesn't work, go in to the court and simply plead for mercy with your apology for being careless. Make a small joke like "the Corvette poisoned me and made me do it"...often that'll get a chuckle or something and they'll let you off easier.
Last option is:
Hire a lawyer. They'll clean it up. It'll cost you up front, but save you in the long run.
Ask me how many tickets I've fought in my life, and how many I've won. I'll be in county appellate court Monday on street racing. False charge, no probable cause...I'll be suing the police in civil court as well.
Know the law, fight to make them respect it. You have the right to a fair trial...demand it by knowing the law. You may KNOW you were speeding, but it's on the state to PROVE you were speeding. This is what makes the legal process work in this country. If you don't place the burden on them to PROVE you wrong, then you open the door to let them do what they want. Guilty or not..make them PROVE you guilty. Any hickup in their proof and make them lose...
OP...the simple facts of fighting any citation are, scrutinize the probable cause necessary to validate the stop.
A. Did you admit to speeding to the officer? This is a key. (HINT: When getting cited for ANYTHING...never admit guilt to the officer, never say you did anything, instead question them; where were you when you saw me, how did you know my speed, why are you stopping me, etc. Many police make stops that lack probable cause and get away with it because people don't force the state to prove their case. The burden of proof is ON THEM)
B. If you're paced then there are several measures which MUST exist, to validate the evidence. 1. The speedometer must be calibrated by an approved agency within an approved period of time. 2. The speed must be paced for a minimum distance to be considered accurate. 3. The agency who did the calibration must have proof they are approved by the state to do so, and have proof of the calibration.
C. If you request these documents prior to your hearing, they are required to provide them. If they do not provide any piece of the puzzle IN ORIGINAL FORM (not photocopies) then cite the "best evidence rule" which requires original documents, then you can have the case dismissed.
So, file a request for:
Proof of calibration of the speedometer
Proof the agency who calibrated it is approved by the state dept of authority
If documents are photocopied at time of trial ask for dismissal based on the "best evidence" rule and failure to provide real and original copies to verify authenticity.
Scrutinize the distance in which the officer paced you.
Work you need to do:
Know how often they must calibrate the speedo
Know the rules about how often the agency that calibrates must be recertified or if they have proof they are approved agencies
Know the facts surrounding how long the officer paced you (did he tell you when he stopped you, etc). Know how far the law requires to make the pacing valid. Most states is 3/10's of a mile with an unobstructed view.
If you can't put all this together and you feel overwhelmed...
Plead not guilty
Go to the hearing and try your best to talk to the officer or DA that will represent the state. See if you can work out a plea arrangement.
If this doesn't work, go in to the court and simply plead for mercy with your apology for being careless. Make a small joke like "the Corvette poisoned me and made me do it"...often that'll get a chuckle or something and they'll let you off easier.
Last option is:
Hire a lawyer. They'll clean it up. It'll cost you up front, but save you in the long run.
Ask me how many tickets I've fought in my life, and how many I've won. I'll be in county appellate court Monday on street racing. False charge, no probable cause...I'll be suing the police in civil court as well.
Know the law, fight to make them respect it. You have the right to a fair trial...demand it by knowing the law. You may KNOW you were speeding, but it's on the state to PROVE you were speeding. This is what makes the legal process work in this country. If you don't place the burden on them to PROVE you wrong, then you open the door to let them do what they want. Guilty or not..make them PROVE you guilty. Any hickup in their proof and make them lose...
10-05-2013, 02:02 PM
#44
Le Mans Master
Recent studies and statistics show an overwhelming rise in pro se representation. In certain states it's as high as 80% in civil cases and 50% in criminal.
The laws are out there, its simply up to you to defend yourself. 80 year old men have beaten the IRS in court. People are lazy and hire attorneys. KNOW the LAW or be a victim of those who "enforce" it.
It's your responsibility as a citizen to know the law. If you're talking a multi million dollar civil case...hire attorneys...if you're defending yourself from simple traffic citations or small civil cases...do your own research and win...
The laws are out there, its simply up to you to defend yourself. 80 year old men have beaten the IRS in court. People are lazy and hire attorneys. KNOW the LAW or be a victim of those who "enforce" it.
It's your responsibility as a citizen to know the law. If you're talking a multi million dollar civil case...hire attorneys...if you're defending yourself from simple traffic citations or small civil cases...do your own research and win...
10-05-2013, 02:09 PM
#45
Race Director
In Virginia 20+ over the posted speed is reckless driving and actually a criminal misdemeanor. I got one recently in my DD while not paying attention and just keeping pace with other traffic. Still my fault.
I lawyered up. He told me to take an all day Saturday Bad Boy class and have my speedo calibrated - both of which I did. On court date, he talked with the prosecutor out of my presence. I ended up pleading to "Defective Equipment" which is not even a moving violation. No points and no insurance upcharge.
It should be added that my driving record was spotless prior to this which helped. Even Mrs. WKMCD agreed I was either going to pay a lawyer or pay the state plus insurance cost increase which undoubtedly would be more.
I lawyered up. He told me to take an all day Saturday Bad Boy class and have my speedo calibrated - both of which I did. On court date, he talked with the prosecutor out of my presence. I ended up pleading to "Defective Equipment" which is not even a moving violation. No points and no insurance upcharge.
It should be added that my driving record was spotless prior to this which helped. Even Mrs. WKMCD agreed I was either going to pay a lawyer or pay the state plus insurance cost increase which undoubtedly would be more.
10-05-2013, 02:17 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
Virginia has some of the WORST traffic laws anywhere...they are ridiculous. My friend lived there for a few years, and I had to help him out of some citations. I couldn't believe what the Virginia people allowed to be written into law...
10-05-2013, 02:32 PM
#47
Instructor
Member Since: Aug 2013
Location: Louisville Kentucky
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Hmmm.
Wow, sorry about your luck, but then again, these things happen for a reason. I'm glad you were not in a wreck, or possible really harmed someone else. These cars make it so easy to go so fast, and sometimes not even realize how fast you are going.. I decided to get the magnaflow exhaust to make me "feel" more power behind the wheel.. LOL. Just say your sorry, pay the fine, and take a lesson learned.
10-05-2013, 02:43 PM
#48
Safety Car
Is that some sort of expressway?
With respect to the second article you posted, these 2 (3) idiots were racing up and down the road in both directions, making 2-3 passes at a time? Given all that, isn't there an increased police presence there?
And yeah....I don't blame you for avoiding the area.
With respect to the second article you posted, these 2 (3) idiots were racing up and down the road in both directions, making 2-3 passes at a time? Given all that, isn't there an increased police presence there?
And yeah....I don't blame you for avoiding the area.
10-05-2013, 03:07 PM
#50
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All these Corvette guys in here getting down on this dude for running 100MPH...... When Im playing around I would be happy if they only wrote it for 100, wouldnt hear any bitching from me
10-05-2013, 04:28 PM
#51
Corvette Cowboy
To the OP your a bad boy I have to ask are you loaded with Money ? I have gotton a 3 digit ticket everyone told me to Lawyer up. I decided not to and the guy before at court got a lawyer to help him. Lets just say he spent way more money then I did 1) 750.00 for Lawyer 2) 1250.00 for fine and driving school cost. I get up their told the Judge I was very dumb for driving that fast and that I just got the car a yr. ago and just had to try it. Let me state the road I was on was empty only 2 people on it at the time (Me / Leo) I was also caught with Lidar. My speed was 24 mph faster then the guy before me I paid 550.00 plus driving school. Moral of the story is take it like a Man and own it.
10-05-2013, 05:41 PM
#52
Drifting
Yeow. Your shipt is deeep... This is an infraction, not a violation. Ain't much good news, except that it's not a jail sentence.
Welcome to VC 22348...
The fine is a maximum of $500. You're gonna need a very good day to dodge any of that...that's not the bad news. Additional county court fees, and assessments could bring you into the $2-3G's range. I'm not familiar with L.A. county's current traffic fees; one thing's fo' sho... there will be additional fees and assessments on top of the sheer fine-- from an *old* LA Superior Court pdf I had on the pc...
"An additional penalty of $28 shall be levied upon every $10, or part of $10, upon every fine, penalty, or forfeiture
imposed by and collected by the court for criminal offenses."
That means the "penalty" is:
$28x50= $1400
Then, an additional 20% is added to that penalty as a "fee assessment":
$1400 * 20% = $280
Add a $40 "Security Fee" and a $35 "Conviction Assessment fee"...
$500+
$1400+
$280+
$40+
$35 =
$2250
100+ mph on the ticket means you won't be allowed to take traffic court. I think it also counts as 2 points against your DMV record, equal to a DUI. That "100+" mark means you HAVE to appear in court. The judge could suspend your license for 30 days. The good news is, you're in L.A. I'm sure your brand of speeding ain't a rarity. Actually it may not be good news... it depends on if the judge makes examples out of your "type" of ticket, or is used to seeing it so much he levies an "average" moderate pain against your wallet.
I think the best you can do is to plea it down to simple speeding (you might want a lawyer--but in this case you'll have to pay for the services). A plea down, if you're lucky, will set you at 1 point on your record and the simple speeding will still probably cost you almost $500. But if you're lucky, the judge'll let you take traffic court. THAT'S what you're fighting for... if the 100+ mph, 2pt, 30-days suspended sticks, you'll be paying for that through your insurance rates for the next 3 years that the points and suspension stay on your DMV record.
BTW, if you got paced, it means you never saw him in your mirrors. And if you didn't see 'm pace you because it was dark, shame on you, double-dog twiced.
Welcome to VC 22348...
The fine is a maximum of $500. You're gonna need a very good day to dodge any of that...that's not the bad news. Additional county court fees, and assessments could bring you into the $2-3G's range. I'm not familiar with L.A. county's current traffic fees; one thing's fo' sho... there will be additional fees and assessments on top of the sheer fine-- from an *old* LA Superior Court pdf I had on the pc...
"An additional penalty of $28 shall be levied upon every $10, or part of $10, upon every fine, penalty, or forfeiture
imposed by and collected by the court for criminal offenses."
That means the "penalty" is:
$28x50= $1400
Then, an additional 20% is added to that penalty as a "fee assessment":
$1400 * 20% = $280
Add a $40 "Security Fee" and a $35 "Conviction Assessment fee"...
$500+
$1400+
$280+
$40+
$35 =
$2250
100+ mph on the ticket means you won't be allowed to take traffic court. I think it also counts as 2 points against your DMV record, equal to a DUI. That "100+" mark means you HAVE to appear in court. The judge could suspend your license for 30 days. The good news is, you're in L.A. I'm sure your brand of speeding ain't a rarity. Actually it may not be good news... it depends on if the judge makes examples out of your "type" of ticket, or is used to seeing it so much he levies an "average" moderate pain against your wallet.
I think the best you can do is to plea it down to simple speeding (you might want a lawyer--but in this case you'll have to pay for the services). A plea down, if you're lucky, will set you at 1 point on your record and the simple speeding will still probably cost you almost $500. But if you're lucky, the judge'll let you take traffic court. THAT'S what you're fighting for... if the 100+ mph, 2pt, 30-days suspended sticks, you'll be paying for that through your insurance rates for the next 3 years that the points and suspension stay on your DMV record.
BTW, if you got paced, it means you never saw him in your mirrors. And if you didn't see 'm pace you because it was dark, shame on you, double-dog twiced.
Last edited by dork; 10-05-2013 at 05:57 PM.
10-05-2013, 07:27 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: It's true money can't buy happiness, but it is more comfortable crying in a Corvette than on a bicyc
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St. Jude Donor '13
You know at speeds at over 100 how do you not notice somebody following /pacing you? If I were ever to go that fast I would notice a tail. Stuff like that just kinda sticks out like a sore thumb
10-05-2013, 08:25 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
In VA 100 mph = handcuffs and a trip to the local jail. It is written as reckless endangerment. Then you see the magistrate and MAY be released on recognizance until court date. You will get to enjoy the three hour minimum sit down in the general holding cell prior to seeing the magistrate. Just a learning experience as to why you don't want to be there. Then you get to pay the fees to get your vehicle released from impound.
What do you learn from this? Don't go 100 mph or more on the public highways in this commonwealth.
What do you learn from this? Don't go 100 mph or more on the public highways in this commonwealth.
10-05-2013, 09:22 PM
#56
Melting Slicks
Not I.... But Remember I drive in "Mexico" To the OP good luck with what you choose to do. Damian (RC000E) Makes a great point in Post #43...
10-05-2013, 09:35 PM
#58
Corvette Cowboy
what can I say
10-05-2013, 09:58 PM
#59
Racer
Member Since: Feb 2011
Location: San Antonio TX
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I think not getting arrested made you lucky, Id just pay it and not try it again. As far as contesting the speedometer and whatnot in the department I work for most traffic units have GPS units in their vehicle and they use them in court to beat the calibration contests every time. good luck though I think it may be more lax on those rules in Cali!
Last edited by Speedaemonc4; 10-05-2013 at 10:04 PM.
10-06-2013, 12:44 AM
#60
Pro
Member Since: Mar 2004
Location: San Diego California
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Typical responses in here...ughhh...
OP...the simple facts of fighting any citation are, scrutinize the probable cause necessary to validate the stop.
A. Did you admit to speeding to the officer? This is a key. (HINT: When getting cited for ANYTHING...never admit guilt to the officer, never say you did anything, instead question them; where were you when you saw me, how did you know my speed, why are you stopping me, etc. Many police make stops that lack probable cause and get away with it because people don't force the state to prove their case. The burden of proof is ON THEM)
B. If you're paced then there are several measures which MUST exist, to validate the evidence. 1. The speedometer must be calibrated by an approved agency within an approved period of time. 2. The speed must be paced for a minimum distance to be considered accurate. 3. The agency who did the calibration must have proof they are approved by the state to do so, and have proof of the calibration.
C. If you request these documents prior to your hearing, they are required to provide them. If they do not provide any piece of the puzzle IN ORIGINAL FORM (not photocopies) then cite the "best evidence rule" which requires original documents, then you can have the case dismissed.
So, file a request for:
Proof of calibration of the speedometer
Proof the agency who calibrated it is approved by the state dept of authority
If documents are photocopied at time of trial ask for dismissal based on the "best evidence" rule and failure to provide real and original copies to verify authenticity.
Scrutinize the distance in which the officer paced you.
Work you need to do:
Know how often they must calibrate the speedo
Know the rules about how often the agency that calibrates must be recertified or if they have proof they are approved agencies
Know the facts surrounding how long the officer paced you (did he tell you when he stopped you, etc). Know how far the law requires to make the pacing valid. Most states is 3/10's of a mile with an unobstructed view.
If you can't put all this together and you feel overwhelmed...
Plead not guilty
Go to the hearing and try your best to talk to the officer or DA that will represent the state. See if you can work out a plea arrangement.
If this doesn't work, go in to the court and simply plead for mercy with your apology for being careless. Make a small joke like "the Corvette poisoned me and made me do it"...often that'll get a chuckle or something and they'll let you off easier.
Last option is:
Hire a lawyer. They'll clean it up. It'll cost you up front, but save you in the long run.
Ask me how many tickets I've fought in my life, and how many I've won. I'll be in county appellate court Monday on street racing. False charge, no probable cause...I'll be suing the police in civil court as well.
Know the law, fight to make them respect it. You have the right to a fair trial...demand it by knowing the law. You may KNOW you were speeding, but it's on the state to PROVE you were speeding. This is what makes the legal process work in this country. If you don't place the burden on them to PROVE you wrong, then you open the door to let them do what they want. Guilty or not..make them PROVE you guilty. Any hickup in their proof and make them lose...
OP...the simple facts of fighting any citation are, scrutinize the probable cause necessary to validate the stop.
A. Did you admit to speeding to the officer? This is a key. (HINT: When getting cited for ANYTHING...never admit guilt to the officer, never say you did anything, instead question them; where were you when you saw me, how did you know my speed, why are you stopping me, etc. Many police make stops that lack probable cause and get away with it because people don't force the state to prove their case. The burden of proof is ON THEM)
B. If you're paced then there are several measures which MUST exist, to validate the evidence. 1. The speedometer must be calibrated by an approved agency within an approved period of time. 2. The speed must be paced for a minimum distance to be considered accurate. 3. The agency who did the calibration must have proof they are approved by the state to do so, and have proof of the calibration.
C. If you request these documents prior to your hearing, they are required to provide them. If they do not provide any piece of the puzzle IN ORIGINAL FORM (not photocopies) then cite the "best evidence rule" which requires original documents, then you can have the case dismissed.
So, file a request for:
Proof of calibration of the speedometer
Proof the agency who calibrated it is approved by the state dept of authority
If documents are photocopied at time of trial ask for dismissal based on the "best evidence" rule and failure to provide real and original copies to verify authenticity.
Scrutinize the distance in which the officer paced you.
Work you need to do:
Know how often they must calibrate the speedo
Know the rules about how often the agency that calibrates must be recertified or if they have proof they are approved agencies
Know the facts surrounding how long the officer paced you (did he tell you when he stopped you, etc). Know how far the law requires to make the pacing valid. Most states is 3/10's of a mile with an unobstructed view.
If you can't put all this together and you feel overwhelmed...
Plead not guilty
Go to the hearing and try your best to talk to the officer or DA that will represent the state. See if you can work out a plea arrangement.
If this doesn't work, go in to the court and simply plead for mercy with your apology for being careless. Make a small joke like "the Corvette poisoned me and made me do it"...often that'll get a chuckle or something and they'll let you off easier.
Last option is:
Hire a lawyer. They'll clean it up. It'll cost you up front, but save you in the long run.
Ask me how many tickets I've fought in my life, and how many I've won. I'll be in county appellate court Monday on street racing. False charge, no probable cause...I'll be suing the police in civil court as well.
Know the law, fight to make them respect it. You have the right to a fair trial...demand it by knowing the law. You may KNOW you were speeding, but it's on the state to PROVE you were speeding. This is what makes the legal process work in this country. If you don't place the burden on them to PROVE you wrong, then you open the door to let them do what they want. Guilty or not..make them PROVE you guilty. Any hickup in their proof and make them lose...
Going over 100 mph is 2 points on your DMV record, and is a mandatory court appearance, traffic school is prohibited due to the speed, and a conviction can result in a license suspension of up to 30 days. (However, jail is NOT a possibility; as it is still a only a traffic infraction.)
You can put on a "dog and pony show" in court like this poster has recommended...I've seen plenty of them over the years, but the traffic judges aren't stupid....they have all graduated law school and have passed the bar exam and were appointed to the bench after their tenure as an attorney. Most have been hearing these types of cases for a lotta years, and it can possibly backfire on you for wasting the courts time. The judges already know that the "probable cause" for a speeding ticket is the fact that the officer saw what he believed to be a speeding vehicle. That's probable cause enough. The patrol vehicles are calibrated every 90 days by the AAA Auto Club as per department policy, and the original speed calibration certificate for that particular car is clipped to the driver's side visor of each patrol vehicle. The officer will testify as to the length of the pace and the speed of the pace and to any statement you made.
You will have to appear in court. The judge will usually offer traffic school before the court docket is read for that morning, but traffic school is not an option after your trial if the judge finds you guilty. I suggest you grab the traffic school option if the judge offers it. I also suggest that you bring a designated driver along with you to court. If your license is suspended by the judge, you don't want to be caught driving away from the courthouse it really pisses the judges off....something you don't want to do.