Is 220 in town running too hot?
03-14-2013, 04:22 AM
#21
Safety Car
I lowered my temp a little by adding a water wetter, but it wasn't needed, just one of those impulse buys , I was curious
I replaced the old radiator when the plastic top failed, and the new GM part runs about the same heat range around town as the old one, pretty much what the poster describes
I was checking out waterless cooling fluid over at the Jay Leno's garage site, and they were pitching the stuff to truckers as a money saver because you could run the engine hotter, and the fan less It matters with the money those guys lay out
They are not afraid of engine heat
Why guys try to make these cars into 57 chevy's with non stock thermostats and radiators is beyond me, but it is pretty cool to have such a great resource here that can explain what the engineers were trying to achieve
I guess some guys just need to make their hobbies harder than they need to be
With a car like this, I would be real careful if I got to thinking I could out engineer the engineers
But Hey,if a different thermostat makes you feel like you have solved a long overlooked design issue, and now your car is better, so be it Fun is hard enough to find and if a big radiator on a stock motor does it for you , go for it
I replaced the old radiator when the plastic top failed, and the new GM part runs about the same heat range around town as the old one, pretty much what the poster describes
I was checking out waterless cooling fluid over at the Jay Leno's garage site, and they were pitching the stuff to truckers as a money saver because you could run the engine hotter, and the fan less It matters with the money those guys lay out
They are not afraid of engine heat
Why guys try to make these cars into 57 chevy's with non stock thermostats and radiators is beyond me, but it is pretty cool to have such a great resource here that can explain what the engineers were trying to achieve
I guess some guys just need to make their hobbies harder than they need to be
With a car like this, I would be real careful if I got to thinking I could out engineer the engineers
But Hey,if a different thermostat makes you feel like you have solved a long overlooked design issue, and now your car is better, so be it Fun is hard enough to find and if a big radiator on a stock motor does it for you , go for it
03-14-2013, 08:39 AM
#23
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
People who modify their car ( engine ) come running all the time when their car breaks, Ive had over 20,000 Private messages asking for help over the 12 years here, and 12,000 open forum post. When I left GM and came here to give back to a community that gave me a wonderful career, I was getting 50 private messages a day, Ive seen it all. Most problems occur when people who come here think everyone here knows what they are talking about... on the surface , having more performance seems like a good idea. Its not a good idea to lower the engine ability to lubricate this engine, the LSX engine has a sweet spot, for longevity 190 to 210F coolant, which in turn allows the oil to heat up to the sweet spot od 200/220F. Everything is a trade off, you want more performance you will loose on the other end. If you are willing to choose performance over longevity, that great. but don't think you are getting something for nothing. Ive been an automotive engineer for 40 years. The last 5 of those years were exclusive to the design and launch of the C5 platform before retiring. This is not 1960. What I usual tell newbies here is to be careful who they listen too. There are far more legends in their own mind here, than those who actually know something about this car.
Last edited by Evil-Twin; 03-14-2013 at 08:47 AM.
03-14-2013, 07:49 PM
#26
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edit: I would also like to know the answer to onlyavette's question! I ended up putting a colder t-stat in with a tune and it runs way cooler....but I wonder about the oil temp. Right now I give it a little extra warm up time thinking that helps.
Last edited by sereneDelusions; 03-14-2013 at 08:13 PM.
03-14-2013, 08:02 PM
#27
Pro
I thought the same, I'm. Old school, anything over 185 I thought was hot, not true anymore, it seems 220-230 is normal from what I have read. I plan on changing my thermostat to 160 sometime this spring and having it tuned to ensure no problems.
03-14-2013, 10:01 PM
#28
Pro
When I had the stock radiator, I was doing 220-225 on a hot August summer day in Southern California idling at a street light.
The stock radiator is an absolute joke and I don't know what GM engineers where thinking. I think it is a mere inch thick at most.
One thing you can do is get aftermarket radiator thermostats at a lower temperature. I believe they make them at 160 and 170. The best solution is a DeWitts radiator.... but they're not cheap, but worth the money. On a hot summer day now idling, I don't go above 200.
The stock radiator is an absolute joke and I don't know what GM engineers where thinking. I think it is a mere inch thick at most.
One thing you can do is get aftermarket radiator thermostats at a lower temperature. I believe they make them at 160 and 170. The best solution is a DeWitts radiator.... but they're not cheap, but worth the money. On a hot summer day now idling, I don't go above 200.
03-14-2013, 10:11 PM
#29
Safety Car
When I had the stock radiator, I was doing 220-225 on a hot August summer day in Southern California idling at a street light.
The stock radiator is an absolute joke and I don't know what GM engineers where thinking. I think it is a mere inch thick at most.
One thing you can do is get aftermarket radiator thermostats at a lower temperature. I believe they make them at 160 and 170. The best solution is a DeWitts radiator.... but they're not cheap, but worth the money. On a hot summer day now idling, I don't go above 200.
The stock radiator is an absolute joke and I don't know what GM engineers where thinking. I think it is a mere inch thick at most.
One thing you can do is get aftermarket radiator thermostats at a lower temperature. I believe they make them at 160 and 170. The best solution is a DeWitts radiator.... but they're not cheap, but worth the money. On a hot summer day now idling, I don't go above 200.
03-14-2013, 11:42 PM
#30
Drifting
Man are you clueless.... did we have to meet emissions ? Yes but the engine was designed around the temp necessary to achieve that end. Get your head out of the 60's... this engine can easily produce a lot of oil shear by design .. running cooler only increases oil shear thus causing thermal break down and loss of top end lubricity.. so please stop trying to play engineer. Tuners want you to lower the stat so they can advance the timing, its their job to get you more HP. This is Old school.... what tuner don't tell you is by running cooler, it will cost you down the road with engine longevity.. The LSX motor was internally designed to go 200,000 miles ( a first in the automotive industry mandated by Dave Hill ). Your Old school thinking was designed around cast iron blocks from the 60's, it has no place in the life expectancy of a modern engine design.
People who modify their car ( engine ) come running all the time when their car breaks, Ive had over 20,000 Private messages asking for help over the 12 years here, and 12,000 open forum post. When I left GM and came here to give back to a community that gave me a wonderful career, I was getting 50 private messages a day, Ive seen it all. Most problems occur when people who come here think everyone here knows what they are talking about... on the surface , having more performance seems like a good idea. Its not a good idea to lower the engine ability to lubricate this engine, the LSX engine has a sweet spot, for longevity 190 to 210F coolant, which in turn allows the oil to heat up to the sweet spot od 200/220F. Everything is a trade off, you want more performance you will loose on the other end. If you are willing to choose performance over longevity, that great. but don't think you are getting something for nothing. Ive been an automotive engineer for 40 years. The last 5 of those years were exclusive to the design and launch of the C5 platform before retiring. This is not 1960. What I usual tell newbies here is to be careful who they listen too. There are far more legends in their own mind here, than those who actually know something about this car.
People who modify their car ( engine ) come running all the time when their car breaks, Ive had over 20,000 Private messages asking for help over the 12 years here, and 12,000 open forum post. When I left GM and came here to give back to a community that gave me a wonderful career, I was getting 50 private messages a day, Ive seen it all. Most problems occur when people who come here think everyone here knows what they are talking about... on the surface , having more performance seems like a good idea. Its not a good idea to lower the engine ability to lubricate this engine, the LSX engine has a sweet spot, for longevity 190 to 210F coolant, which in turn allows the oil to heat up to the sweet spot od 200/220F. Everything is a trade off, you want more performance you will loose on the other end. If you are willing to choose performance over longevity, that great. but don't think you are getting something for nothing. Ive been an automotive engineer for 40 years. The last 5 of those years were exclusive to the design and launch of the C5 platform before retiring. This is not 1960. What I usual tell newbies here is to be careful who they listen too. There are far more legends in their own mind here, than those who actually know something about this car.
On 5-13-2004 you posted the installation of a 160* stat in which you use in your own car.
Link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1547302169-post5.html
Running the 160 stat, are you saying you were willing to lose some engine longevity for more power? Just wanting clarification.
I know anything over 197F coolant will cause ecm to pull timing from signal sent from knock sensors and have a negative effect on power and mileage.
I do run 160* stats in my '02 and '09 and satisfied with them.
Bob
03-14-2013, 11:49 PM
#31
Safety Car
Bill, i am a little confused. You have made yourself clear in this conversation on the preferred engine temp of the LSx engine which "has a sweet spot for longevity 190-210F coolant, which in turn allows the oil to heat up to the sweet spot of 200/220F".
On 5-13-2004 you posted the installation of a 160* stat in which you use in your own car.
Link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1547302169-post5.html
Running the 160 stat, are you saying you were willing to lose some engine longevity for more power? Just wanting clarification.
I know anything over 197F coolant will cause ecm to pull timing from signal sent from knock sensors and have a negative effect on power and mileage.
I do run 160* stats in my '02 and '09 and satisfied with them.
Bob
On 5-13-2004 you posted the installation of a 160* stat in which you use in your own car.
Link:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1547302169-post5.html
Running the 160 stat, are you saying you were willing to lose some engine longevity for more power? Just wanting clarification.
I know anything over 197F coolant will cause ecm to pull timing from signal sent from knock sensors and have a negative effect on power and mileage.
I do run 160* stats in my '02 and '09 and satisfied with them.
Bob
03-15-2013, 12:01 AM
#33
Drifting
03-15-2013, 01:42 AM
#34
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St. Jude Donor '09, '13, '15
Clueless in the 60's. Good one aye hole. Think before you write.
Ask the mods if you can be the only one to post in threads as you are the only one with the experience worth sharing.
20,000 pm's........I have a pm for ya, LOL, equally as respectful as you are to others.
You are doing a heck of a job giving back (giving "something") to the community. Keep it up. Engineer 40 long years, well at least we don't have to read your enlightening and positive responses for much longer, tick tock, you should be about done.
Ask the mods if you can be the only one to post in threads as you are the only one with the experience worth sharing.
20,000 pm's........I have a pm for ya, LOL, equally as respectful as you are to others.
You are doing a heck of a job giving back (giving "something") to the community. Keep it up. Engineer 40 long years, well at least we don't have to read your enlightening and positive responses for much longer, tick tock, you should be about done.
His experience is unique to all of us here and you apparently have no idea what he's been through in his C5 experience and on this forum.
Listen grasshopper....listen.....
03-15-2013, 10:21 AM
#35
Drifting
I just bought a C5 in December. Today I drove it down the freeway and home again (60 miles round trip) It seems to run around 180-190 degrees on the open road, but in town in stop & go traffic and my luck of hitting every single red stop light in town 
it seems to get up to about 220-230 but then will come back down to 200 or so.
Also, if I park and turn the car off and the temp. is around 220, I dont hear the fans running. Is this normal for the C5?
The car only has 72k miles on it, so I wouldnt think the fan motors would be bad, and if they were, I would think it would go alot higher than 220-230 when sitting at the ever loved and never ending red light.
I did read in a car magazine that under race conditions these engines can handle 230-250 degrees, but Im not racing.
I really dont feel like putting a $6000 motor in this car when its only got 72k miles on it.
Any tips or help would be much appreciated.
it seems to get up to about 220-230 but then will come back down to 200 or so. Also, if I park and turn the car off and the temp. is around 220, I dont hear the fans running. Is this normal for the C5?
The car only has 72k miles on it, so I wouldnt think the fan motors would be bad, and if they were, I would think it would go alot higher than 220-230 when sitting at the ever loved and never ending red light.
I did read in a car magazine that under race conditions these engines can handle 230-250 degrees, but Im not racing.
I really dont feel like putting a $6000 motor in this car when its only got 72k miles on it.
Any tips or help would be much appreciated.
My 2001 is stock, and if I recall correctly, the first fan doesn't even go on until 226 degrees and then runs until the temp drops to 217, so the operation you describe is normal. Those on/off temp ranges should tell you that 220 is just fine. Just sitting in traffic, the temp will rise because there is no air passing through the rad until either the car begins moving at at least a moderate speed or the fan comes on. You can always force the fans on while sitting in traffic by turning on the a/c.
Once rolling, my coolant temps run 194-196 consistently all year long. I keep the water temp up on the HUD which shows three hash marks on the HUD display in that range - when the temp gets up to 198 you see a fourth hash mark - very easy to see when the temp just starts to climb.
03-15-2013, 10:31 AM
#36
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Oldtimer
Boy, I agree with Rickster1! ET and I certainly don't have an amiable love for each other - but THAT's just WAY over the line and should NOT be tolerated on these forums!
It isn't
It isn't
Last edited by johnodrake; 03-15-2013 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Hostile quote
03-15-2013, 10:28 PM
#38
Thanks for the posts ET. You may be a little blunt but I've learned a ton from your posts over the years. The trouble with several posts on this topic is that they seem to think that because cars didn't run this hot in the past, that they shouldn't do so now. I also drive a Jeep Wrangler that runs at 212 degrees when it gets up to correct temp.
03-18-2013, 11:15 PM
#39
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E.T. may be blunt in his answers, but he knows his C5 engines.
I am grateful to E.T. for being here so I did NOT listen to someone that didnt know their *** from a hole in the ground when it came to this engine and give me advice that would eventually cost me a very expensive repair.
Thank you E.T. I truely appreciate your expertise.
Any of you that decide to take your Vette to a "Tuner" would maybe want to think twice.
I trust what E.T. says. I would ask his advice before you do anything.
Just dont **** him off and ask him if you can put a 2 bbl carb. on it for better fuel economy!
03-18-2013, 11:41 PM
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Checking first on debris in the radiator is definitely worth the trouble.
My 2001 is stock, and if I recall correctly, the first fan doesn't even go on until 226 degrees and then runs until the temp drops to 217, so the operation you describe is normal. Those on/off temp ranges should tell you that 220 is just fine. Just sitting in traffic, the temp will rise because there is no air passing through the rad until either the car begins moving at at least a moderate speed or the fan comes on. You can always force the fans on while sitting in traffic by turning on the a/c.
Once rolling, my coolant temps run 194-196 consistently all year long. I keep the water temp up on the HUD which shows three hash marks on the HUD display in that range - when the temp gets up to 198 you see a fourth hash mark - very easy to see when the temp just starts to climb.
My 2001 is stock, and if I recall correctly, the first fan doesn't even go on until 226 degrees and then runs until the temp drops to 217, so the operation you describe is normal. Those on/off temp ranges should tell you that 220 is just fine. Just sitting in traffic, the temp will rise because there is no air passing through the rad until either the car begins moving at at least a moderate speed or the fan comes on. You can always force the fans on while sitting in traffic by turning on the a/c.
Once rolling, my coolant temps run 194-196 consistently all year long. I keep the water temp up on the HUD which shows three hash marks on the HUD display in that range - when the temp gets up to 198 you see a fourth hash mark - very easy to see when the temp just starts to climb.
I wasnt sure at what Temp. the fans should come on.
As I said before, it seemed to get to about 230 and then would drop down to 210 or so.
So in town, It runs 210-230 range.
Now I know that this is normal for a C5 Engine.
I am grateful to have such knowledgeable people on this forum that offer such good advice and do not look down on the noobie Vette owner.
Thank you all so much.