Cheaper aluminum radiators
10-15-2011, 07:14 PM
#1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Cheaper aluminum radiators
This is a FACT...
99% of the people saying they MAKE radiators don't actually make anything. What they do is buy all the components and ASSEMBLE them. If the prices are less than 1/2 the market average you can bet they are using China cores and working out of the garage. Real companies have addresses and phone numbers.
If you care, read this:
http://www.dewitts.com/download/cores.pdf
99% of the people saying they MAKE radiators don't actually make anything. What they do is buy all the components and ASSEMBLE them. If the prices are less than 1/2 the market average you can bet they are using China cores and working out of the garage. Real companies have addresses and phone numbers.
If you care, read this:
http://www.dewitts.com/download/cores.pdf
10-16-2011, 11:01 AM
#3
AKA "The CLOWN"
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Very true Tom, however if a radiator is $400 cheaper and will provide better than stock cooling, than a lot of people are going to look into saving money and may consider these China radiators.
If it make you feel better, I have an 01 A4, and these will not work for me. You do make a great radiator!
If it make you feel better, I have an 01 A4, and these will not work for me. You do make a great radiator!
10-16-2011, 12:19 PM
#4
Drifting
Member Since: May 2006
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This is a FACT...
99% of the people saying they MAKE radiators don't actually make anything. What they do is buy all the components and ASSEMBLE them. If the prices are less than 1/2 the market average you can bet they are using China cores and working out of the garage. Real companies have addresses and phone numbers.
If you care, read this:
http://www.dewitts.com/download/cores.pdf
99% of the people saying they MAKE radiators don't actually make anything. What they do is buy all the components and ASSEMBLE them. If the prices are less than 1/2 the market average you can bet they are using China cores and working out of the garage. Real companies have addresses and phone numbers.
If you care, read this:
http://www.dewitts.com/download/cores.pdf
I just ordered one of your radiators Tom. Fu$k China!
10-17-2011, 07:25 AM
#5
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
I know they will but you don't save money if the radiator fails after a couple years. People love to post about how smart they were in buying something cheap but rarely post when it fails.
10-17-2011, 12:08 PM
#6
I have both your radiator and your high capacity fans and love them both. But in this economy with $$$ being very tight and if I HAD to have a new radiator, I would be going with a less $$$ intensive solution. No offense to you, just a fact of life. I know the economy has had a major inpact on my business and the $$$$ that I have to spend. I suspect your business as well has seen some pinch though perhaps not as much as have others.
10-17-2011, 07:26 PM
#8
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
10-17-2011, 07:48 PM
#9
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Tom,
I have both your radiator and your high capacity fans and love them both. But in this economy with $$$ being very tight and if I HAD to have a new radiator, I would be going with a less $$$ intensive solution. No offense to you, just a fact of life. I know the economy has had a major inpact on my business and the $$$$ that I have to spend. I suspect your business as well has seen some pinch though perhaps not as much as have others.
I have both your radiator and your high capacity fans and love them both. But in this economy with $$$ being very tight and if I HAD to have a new radiator, I would be going with a less $$$ intensive solution. No offense to you, just a fact of life. I know the economy has had a major inpact on my business and the $$$$ that I have to spend. I suspect your business as well has seen some pinch though perhaps not as much as have others.
So if someone on ebay starts offering Joyo Corvette Tires for $50 you would buy those too? I mean they have to be just as good a the brand name ones, right? Of course not.
I see these discussions as a total apples and orange comparison. It would be like someone saying why buy a Corvette for $50k when the Camero is only $30k?
Maybe I just think differently than others but when I bought new tires for my Silverado the guy said "the cheapest I can do is $700 for a new set." My reply is how much is the maximum? I bought Michelin tires for $300 more because I'm going to get 80,000 miles instead of 50,000. The truck cost 50 grand, what's $300?
10-17-2011, 09:18 PM
#10
Guess you missed the point and obviously you have the $$$ to spend. Many don't.
10-18-2011, 01:27 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
You don't always get what you pay for in life, but you can't expect to get what you don't pay for.
10-18-2011, 10:55 AM
#12
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I think people get their thoughts mixed up on subjects like this. Hey, we are talking about car parts here, not something like Rolex vs. Timex watches...they are not mutually exclusive...there will always be a market for both items. The same goes for radiators...if you race you will/should buy the Dewitt; but if you are adding some bling to your engine, or you are on a budget simply to fix a leaky radiator why not try the el cheapo? It might get you through a few years, or at least allow you to sell/trade in your car. And remember, these are 'old' cars now by any standard. It is poor money management to put $6000 into wheel sets or $7000 blowers on a car worth at best in the high teens....same goes for mundane parts to keep it running.
10-18-2011, 01:13 PM
#13
Race Director
Age of the car has little if anything to do with this discussion. It is not poor money management to purchase and install a more expensive part on a vehicle that is intended to be kept for a long time as many here are wont to do.
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
XYZ spent a substantial amount of money to design and engineer his product, and then spent more money to build a facility to manufacture the product, retain a number of skilled workers to staff the facility and only purchases the highest quality raw materials.....and does all of this in the U.S. where the labor costs are likely to be 10 to 15 times higher.
It has become very difficult for bricks and mortar businesses to survive in today's environment. There are Internet sellers that have next to zero overhead selling the same products as the bricks and mortar retailers and manufacturers that have substantial overhead as previously mentioned. Top this off with the Internet sellers not charging sales tax as a bricks and mortar seller is required to do - the traditional businesses are struggling to survive.
So when I read Tom's outcry and obvious anger, I totally get it. I see comments like - "maybe this should send a message to Dewitt's and Ron Davis to be more price competitive....." and I wonder, should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I understand that the consumer is trying to save money - maybe those consumers that place price first should consider this -
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
XYZ spent a substantial amount of money to design and engineer his product, and then spent more money to build a facility to manufacture the product, retain a number of skilled workers to staff the facility and only purchases the highest quality raw materials.....and does all of this in the U.S. where the labor costs are likely to be 10 to 15 times higher.
It has become very difficult for bricks and mortar businesses to survive in today's environment. There are Internet sellers that have next to zero overhead selling the same products as the bricks and mortar retailers and manufacturers that have substantial overhead as previously mentioned. Top this off with the Internet sellers not charging sales tax as a bricks and mortar seller is required to do - the traditional businesses are struggling to survive.
So when I read Tom's outcry and obvious anger, I totally get it. I see comments like - "maybe this should send a message to Dewitt's and Ron Davis to be more price competitive....." and I wonder, should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I understand that the consumer is trying to save money - maybe those consumers that place price first should consider this -
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin
10-18-2011, 01:24 PM
#14
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
10-18-2011, 01:37 PM
#15
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jan 2002
Location: Kyle TX (Because Mojo Made me fill it in)
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Im sure the Dewitt products are superior. They didnt earn their reputation by making garbage.
However, this...
is just as misleading as this ....
We dont all have the option to roll around in 50k trucks and say...
You know what? $300 is still $300. $300 puts groceries in the fridge for my kids for 2 weeks.
We work for our paychecks just like anyone else does. When the option to save a little come around, I think it's fair to investigate the option.
Dewitt doesnt HAVE to do anything with their prices. People will continue to buy their products. But I think based on his comments above, he's not hurting and the prices can probably be a little more competitive.
Just the same, do price conscious people HAVE to buy Dewitt? Nope but again, Im sure people will continue to regardless.
However, this...
......should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....
how much is the maximum? I bought Michelin tires for $300 more because I'm going to get 80,000 miles instead of 50,000. The truck cost 50 grand, what's $300?
We work for our paychecks just like anyone else does. When the option to save a little come around, I think it's fair to investigate the option.
Dewitt doesnt HAVE to do anything with their prices. People will continue to buy their products. But I think based on his comments above, he's not hurting and the prices can probably be a little more competitive.
Just the same, do price conscious people HAVE to buy Dewitt? Nope but again, Im sure people will continue to regardless.
10-18-2011, 01:57 PM
#16
Safety Car
Member Since: Jun 2009
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Im sure the Dewitt products are superior. They didnt earn their reputation by making garbage.
However, this...
is just as misleading as this ....
We dont all have the option to roll around in 50k trucks and say...
You know what? $300 is still $300. $300 puts groceries in the fridge for my kids for 2 weeks.
We work for our paychecks just like anyone else does. When the option to save a little come around, I think it's fair to investigate the option.
Dewitt doesnt HAVE to do anything with their prices. People will continue to buy their products. But I think based on his comments above, he's not hurting and the prices can probably be a little more competitive.
Just the same, do price conscious people HAVE to buy Dewitt? Nope but again, Im sure people will continue to regardless.
However, this...
is just as misleading as this ....
We dont all have the option to roll around in 50k trucks and say...
You know what? $300 is still $300. $300 puts groceries in the fridge for my kids for 2 weeks.
We work for our paychecks just like anyone else does. When the option to save a little come around, I think it's fair to investigate the option.
Dewitt doesnt HAVE to do anything with their prices. People will continue to buy their products. But I think based on his comments above, he's not hurting and the prices can probably be a little more competitive.
Just the same, do price conscious people HAVE to buy Dewitt? Nope but again, Im sure people will continue to regardless.
Let's just say a "cheapo" china radiator that is roughly $200, works for a solid 5 years(I'm sure more), or you could spend 3 times that and get an American made one that itself alone lasts 10 years!!!!
If you went through 3 of those china radiators(5 years each unit) you'd have 5 MORE years over the American made ones for get this, the SAME EXACT PRICE in the end.
Sorry but in the end, inevitably ...price does matter, especially competitive pricing. But that doesn't exist. It's either low affordable or high expensive. It would be nice to have a replacement for the C5 that gets the job done as good as OEM BUT doesn't cost 3 times as much. Maybe the mission at Dewitts is more performance oriented than just a nice reliable,afforadable, replacement. No more, no less.
10-18-2011, 02:44 PM
#17
AKA "The CLOWN"
Member Since: Feb 2010
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Very very well said sir.
Let's just say a "cheapo" china radiator that is roughly $200, works for a solid 5 years(I'm sure more), or you could spend 3 times that and get an American made one that itself alone lasts 10 years!!!!
If you went through 3 of those china radiators(5 years each unit) you'd have 5 MORE years over the American made ones for get this, the SAME EXACT PRICE in the end.
Sorry but in the end, inevitably ...price does matter, especially competitive pricing. But that doesn't exist. It's either low affordable or high expensive. It would be nice to have a replacement for the C5 that gets the job done as good as OEM BUT doesn't cost 3 times as much. Maybe the mission at Dewitts is more performance oriented than just a nice reliable,afforadable, replacement. No more, no less.
Let's just say a "cheapo" china radiator that is roughly $200, works for a solid 5 years(I'm sure more), or you could spend 3 times that and get an American made one that itself alone lasts 10 years!!!!
If you went through 3 of those china radiators(5 years each unit) you'd have 5 MORE years over the American made ones for get this, the SAME EXACT PRICE in the end.
Sorry but in the end, inevitably ...price does matter, especially competitive pricing. But that doesn't exist. It's either low affordable or high expensive. It would be nice to have a replacement for the C5 that gets the job done as good as OEM BUT doesn't cost 3 times as much. Maybe the mission at Dewitts is more performance oriented than just a nice reliable,afforadable, replacement. No more, no less.
10-18-2011, 03:27 PM
#18
Safety Car
JUST MY .02
you see all over the place to buy "made in the USA" ... it doesn't cost that much more. This is true with some products but from what I have seen with Corvette parts it's not true. Look at all the parts made overseas for Vettes and the price difference is huge!
The Vette Tax
you see all over the place to buy "made in the USA" ... it doesn't cost that much more. This is true with some products but from what I have seen with Corvette parts it's not true. Look at all the parts made overseas for Vettes and the price difference is huge!
The Vette Tax
10-18-2011, 03:38 PM
#19
Safety Car
Member Since: Jun 2009
Location: Frederick, Maryland
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why spend triple for one of the only made fully aluminum radiators made. It's almost like a monopoly.JUST MY .02
you see all over the place to buy "made in the USA" ... it doesn't cost that much more. This is true with some products but from what I have seen with Corvette parts it's not true. Look at all the parts made overseas for Vettes and the price difference is huge!
The Vette Tax
you see all over the place to buy "made in the USA" ... it doesn't cost that much more. This is true with some products but from what I have seen with Corvette parts it's not true. Look at all the parts made overseas for Vettes and the price difference is huge!
The Vette Tax
Vette tax plain and simple.
10-18-2011, 04:28 PM
#20
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Aug 1999
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Age of the car has little if anything to do with this discussion. It is not poor money management to purchase and install a more expensive part on a vehicle that is intended to be kept for a long time as many here are wont to do.
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
XYZ spent a substantial amount of money to design and engineer his product, and then spent more money to build a facility to manufacture the product, retain a number of skilled workers to staff the facility and only purchases the highest quality raw materials.....and does all of this in the U.S. where the labor costs are likely to be 10 to 15 times higher.
It has become very difficult for bricks and mortar businesses to survive in today's environment. There are Internet sellers that have next to zero overhead selling the same products as the bricks and mortar retailers and manufacturers that have substantial overhead as previously mentioned. Top this off with the Internet sellers not charging sales tax as a bricks and mortar seller is required to do - the traditional businesses are struggling to survive.
So when I read Tom's outcry and obvious anger, I totally get it. I see comments like - "maybe this should send a message to Dewitt's and Ron Davis to be more price competitive....." and I wonder, should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I understand that the consumer is trying to save money - maybe those consumers that place price first should consider this -
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin
Buying a cheap piece may save the money at the point of the initial purchase, but over a longer period of time, it will not be cost effective if the part has to be replaced two or more times compared to the more expensive part that will offer great longevity.
I don't think it's fair to manufacturers to state "I bought the exact same thing as XYZ on Ebay for half the price....difference is that it is made off shore."
XYZ spent a substantial amount of money to design and engineer his product, and then spent more money to build a facility to manufacture the product, retain a number of skilled workers to staff the facility and only purchases the highest quality raw materials.....and does all of this in the U.S. where the labor costs are likely to be 10 to 15 times higher.
It has become very difficult for bricks and mortar businesses to survive in today's environment. There are Internet sellers that have next to zero overhead selling the same products as the bricks and mortar retailers and manufacturers that have substantial overhead as previously mentioned. Top this off with the Internet sellers not charging sales tax as a bricks and mortar seller is required to do - the traditional businesses are struggling to survive.
So when I read Tom's outcry and obvious anger, I totally get it. I see comments like - "maybe this should send a message to Dewitt's and Ron Davis to be more price competitive....." and I wonder, should they make and sell their products and make no profit? Should the retailers that carry these quality products make no profit?
I understand that the consumer is trying to save money - maybe those consumers that place price first should consider this -
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin