Is a 165 deg. T-Stat really necessary?
12-06-2009, 10:38 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Is a 165 deg. T-Stat really necessary?
I ask because I have a good buddy who believes that because the 165 T-Stat he ordered was on backorder, that so many people want them they can't make them fast enough.
I counter that I drove all summer long/have put over 18,000 miles on my car since February in all weather, in the hot summer bumper to bumper traffic and I had no issues whatsoever with cooling.
Is a 165 T-Stat necessary for a stock car? He has an M6 while I have an A4, otherwise stock.
I counter that I drove all summer long/have put over 18,000 miles on my car since February in all weather, in the hot summer bumper to bumper traffic and I had no issues whatsoever with cooling.
Is a 165 T-Stat necessary for a stock car? He has an M6 while I have an A4, otherwise stock.
12-07-2009, 06:42 AM
#4
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2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
I drove mine for 3 years in the vegas heat. It stayed cool when it was moving and the only times the fans ever cut in was when I stopped in traffic and then, not often.
I'd say stock is fine for most users.
I'd say stock is fine for most users.
12-07-2009, 09:53 AM
#5
Stock T'Stat is fine for stock cars. A colder T'Stat without having the factory turn on points of the fans set to a lower point is a waste of money. If you want the car to run cooler in hot weather in traffic with the stock T'Stat then have the fans programmed to come on at 205 degrees rather than 225 degrees the factory setting is set to. This assumes there are not other issues with the cooling system.
12-07-2009, 01:14 PM
#6
Simple explaination of what a 165 degree thermostsat does. It opens at 165. This does not mean it keeps your car 165. The car can run whatever it wants. The real purpose is to make sure it gets up to temperature. Where I live I run 195 degree in everything to make sure I have good heater temp.
12-07-2009, 05:32 PM
#8
Team Owner
Simple explaination of what a 165 degree thermostsat does. It opens at 165. This does not mean it keeps your car 165. The car can run whatever it wants. The real purpose is to make sure it gets up to temperature. Where I live I run 195 degree in everything to make sure I have good heater temp.
The T stat does NOT improve the cooling capacity of the vehicle.
12-07-2009, 05:47 PM
#9
Safety Car
Even with very minor bolt on mods (CAI, LTs) tuners seem to want a 160 stat before they start. I’m not sure I buy into that for minor mods (more of a question).
12-07-2009, 07:16 PM
#11
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This topic has the potential to erupt into a debate, but the short answer is this:
A t-stat alone will not do much.
A t-stat and a TUNE will get you some improved cooling. Particularly turning on the fans earlier etc. Chuck Cow will be able to answer in better detail and greater accuracy.
A t-stat alone will not do much.
A t-stat and a TUNE will get you some improved cooling. Particularly turning on the fans earlier etc. Chuck Cow will be able to answer in better detail and greater accuracy.
12-07-2009, 09:46 PM
#12
Race Director
If your car is stock, or only has minor mods (air intake, catback headers etc) leave the stock Tstat , it is a waste of time to change it.
I have been told by three very reputable tuners that unless you are running major mods (heads , cam or SC) you don't need a 160 stat.
I have heads/cam package with medium size cam and my tuner recommended a 160 tstat , AND reprogrammed the fans since the cam changes the way the motor behaves and the timing and everything is altered to make the cam work.
What you should do is check your raidiator every few months...I do, and mine is always filthy and clean it, I did this when my car was stock too and it helped a great deal. You would not believe how much junk these cars suck up.
I have been told by three very reputable tuners that unless you are running major mods (heads , cam or SC) you don't need a 160 stat.
I have heads/cam package with medium size cam and my tuner recommended a 160 tstat , AND reprogrammed the fans since the cam changes the way the motor behaves and the timing and everything is altered to make the cam work.
What you should do is check your raidiator every few months...I do, and mine is always filthy and clean it, I did this when my car was stock too and it helped a great deal. You would not believe how much junk these cars suck up.
12-07-2009, 10:11 PM
#13
I ask because I have a good buddy who believes that because the 165 T-Stat he ordered was on backorder, that so many people want them they can't make them fast enough.
I counter that I drove all summer long/have put over 18,000 miles on my car since February in all weather, in the hot summer bumper to bumper traffic and I had no issues whatsoever with cooling.
Is a 165 T-Stat necessary for a stock car? He has an M6 while I have an A4, otherwise stock.
I counter that I drove all summer long/have put over 18,000 miles on my car since February in all weather, in the hot summer bumper to bumper traffic and I had no issues whatsoever with cooling.
Is a 165 T-Stat necessary for a stock car? He has an M6 while I have an A4, otherwise stock.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...hermostat.html
Originally Posted by Evil-Twin
Again and again ben dover, you have no clue about this LS1/6 motor and its development... IT is a tight clearanced aluminum alloy engine. it has a sweet spot. Every tuner knows this... keeping it in the sweet spot is what everyone strived for... the sweet spot is 190/200 coolant and 200/210 oil temp.
I was fully involved in the prototype design and subsequent launch and post launch debugging of this car, I have 35 years of automotive engineering under my belt I am an SAE Sr Engineer. This motor is almost bullet proof with the right configuration, that is, the right oil, and the motor running at the right temperatures, both oil and coolant. This allows proper lubrication , suspension of contaminants in the oil, and reduction of thermal breakdown... The sweet spot was established buy thousands of hours of run time while developing this LS1 design... simultaneous test were done to develop the algorithms for the oil life monitor, under all types of loads and driving conditions.. unfortunately WE build cars that run in Minnesota in the winter @ -30F, and the same car has to run in the Arizona desert @ +130F. The hp vs. cu. in of the LS1/6 was developed through tight clearances and a lubrication system that needs the right combination. Running an LS1/6 at 160 F will cause premature carbon build up...increase compression ratio, cause automatic Knock retard sensors to retard the timing, thus causing a loss in performance.. WE ( GM engineering ) have seen this scenario so many time we have developed the famous GM De carbonization process... these cars run anywhere from 190F to 235 F. and that is normal in the general design.. the PCM helps to compensate for this variance with appropriate fan settings.. but the car runs best at one temperature..both coolant and oil.. but it will function and various temperatures.. the sweet spot is insider information..keeping it in that sweet spot is what a well tuned engine wants to see.. and where optimal performance is gained...without loss of internal integrity
This is similar to the tire pressure sticker 30 pounds cold on the door... it is just a generic tire pressure sticker setting.. so customers wont use the max pressure settings on the tires,..,, but that 30 psi sticker is just a general statement.. the tires perform best at 30 psi.. but if you set them cold at 30 psi and get out on a Hot black top on a summer 90+ day road where temps can reach 160F, those tires will increase to 36 psi... that is not where they should run... I never allow my tires to get over 30/31 psi "Hot" that's where they perform,, they do not perform cold...so why set the temperature there. Tire pressure is so critical... Nascar pit crews monitor track temperatures all day long and adjust tire pressure accordingly. Two psi can give you better mileage and more tire life... these are critical in Nascar. A few extra laps on the tires and better fuel economy are all part of a well tuned Nascar. Not as critical to a daily driver, but the concept is the same... I consistently get 33 mpg on the highway with my car.. and I can get 45,000 miles out of a set of tires.. because I know what I am doing.. my car is tuned for me and where I live and how I drive... I have been trying to teach this concept to people here... many have adopted this, and other do not..
Running too hot will also cause pre-ignition, and the knock sensors will cause timing retard, loss of performance, and poor gas mileage...esspecially for those that can only get 91 octane gas.
keeping the car in the sweet spot is a function of a custom cooling system adjustment. I use a 160 stat and adjusted fan settings in my car from late April through September, thi9s keeps my car in the sweet spot through the summer. I use a stock stat and fan seeting through the fall and winter..
It takes five minutes to swap stats, with very little ( less than a pint of coolant loss).
This sweet spot concept is used by all tuners, that why they put a 160 stat and adjust fans settings in cars with mods. Summer driving conditions and a 160 stat will never allow your car to see actual 160 F coolant temps. Ambient air will not transfer heat when its 80 to 90 F.
a 90+ day on a black top road can yeild 140/160 F surface temps. So there is very little cooling from a bottom feeder air flow system. Your cooling system needs alittle help to gain optimum performance... Running Too Hot, is a definite NO NO........
Bottom line here..
Listening to wanna be mechanics and BS artist here on this forum can cause you serious damage and shortened engine life.. ben dover , You have no clue, and should not post about things you obviously know nothing about, especially about an LS1/6 engine.
I was fully involved in the prototype design and subsequent launch and post launch debugging of this car, I have 35 years of automotive engineering under my belt I am an SAE Sr Engineer. This motor is almost bullet proof with the right configuration, that is, the right oil, and the motor running at the right temperatures, both oil and coolant. This allows proper lubrication , suspension of contaminants in the oil, and reduction of thermal breakdown... The sweet spot was established buy thousands of hours of run time while developing this LS1 design... simultaneous test were done to develop the algorithms for the oil life monitor, under all types of loads and driving conditions.. unfortunately WE build cars that run in Minnesota in the winter @ -30F, and the same car has to run in the Arizona desert @ +130F. The hp vs. cu. in of the LS1/6 was developed through tight clearances and a lubrication system that needs the right combination. Running an LS1/6 at 160 F will cause premature carbon build up...increase compression ratio, cause automatic Knock retard sensors to retard the timing, thus causing a loss in performance.. WE ( GM engineering ) have seen this scenario so many time we have developed the famous GM De carbonization process... these cars run anywhere from 190F to 235 F. and that is normal in the general design.. the PCM helps to compensate for this variance with appropriate fan settings.. but the car runs best at one temperature..both coolant and oil.. but it will function and various temperatures.. the sweet spot is insider information..keeping it in that sweet spot is what a well tuned engine wants to see.. and where optimal performance is gained...without loss of internal integrity
This is similar to the tire pressure sticker 30 pounds cold on the door... it is just a generic tire pressure sticker setting.. so customers wont use the max pressure settings on the tires,..,, but that 30 psi sticker is just a general statement.. the tires perform best at 30 psi.. but if you set them cold at 30 psi and get out on a Hot black top on a summer 90+ day road where temps can reach 160F, those tires will increase to 36 psi... that is not where they should run... I never allow my tires to get over 30/31 psi "Hot" that's where they perform,, they do not perform cold...so why set the temperature there. Tire pressure is so critical... Nascar pit crews monitor track temperatures all day long and adjust tire pressure accordingly. Two psi can give you better mileage and more tire life... these are critical in Nascar. A few extra laps on the tires and better fuel economy are all part of a well tuned Nascar. Not as critical to a daily driver, but the concept is the same... I consistently get 33 mpg on the highway with my car.. and I can get 45,000 miles out of a set of tires.. because I know what I am doing.. my car is tuned for me and where I live and how I drive... I have been trying to teach this concept to people here... many have adopted this, and other do not..
Running too hot will also cause pre-ignition, and the knock sensors will cause timing retard, loss of performance, and poor gas mileage...esspecially for those that can only get 91 octane gas.
keeping the car in the sweet spot is a function of a custom cooling system adjustment. I use a 160 stat and adjusted fan settings in my car from late April through September, thi9s keeps my car in the sweet spot through the summer. I use a stock stat and fan seeting through the fall and winter..
It takes five minutes to swap stats, with very little ( less than a pint of coolant loss).
This sweet spot concept is used by all tuners, that why they put a 160 stat and adjust fans settings in cars with mods. Summer driving conditions and a 160 stat will never allow your car to see actual 160 F coolant temps. Ambient air will not transfer heat when its 80 to 90 F.
a 90+ day on a black top road can yeild 140/160 F surface temps. So there is very little cooling from a bottom feeder air flow system. Your cooling system needs alittle help to gain optimum performance... Running Too Hot, is a definite NO NO........
Bottom line here..
Listening to wanna be mechanics and BS artist here on this forum can cause you serious damage and shortened engine life.. ben dover , You have no clue, and should not post about things you obviously know nothing about, especially about an LS1/6 engine.
Last edited by TR97C5; 12-08-2009 at 12:34 AM.
12-08-2009, 01:02 AM
#14
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
OH GOD!!! When is this topic gonna die!?!?!?
I ask because I have a good buddy who believes that because the 165 T-Stat he ordered was on backorder, that so many people want them they can't make them fast enough.
I counter that I drove all summer long/have put over 18,000 miles on my car since February in all weather, in the hot summer bumper to bumper traffic and I had no issues whatsoever with cooling.
Is a 165 T-Stat necessary for a stock car? He has an M6 while I have an A4, otherwise stock.
I counter that I drove all summer long/have put over 18,000 miles on my car since February in all weather, in the hot summer bumper to bumper traffic and I had no issues whatsoever with cooling.
Is a 165 T-Stat necessary for a stock car? He has an M6 while I have an A4, otherwise stock.
YOU GOTTA CLICK HERE AND READ THIS THREAD!!!
Chuck CoW