My RPS Twin Organic review (long)
10-08-2009, 02:53 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
My RPS Twin Organic review (long)
I purchased this clutch from a tuner in Vancouver, WA. The sales transaction went smoothly and the shipping from RPS was prompt. I do [nearly] all of my own mechanical work and have installed a dozen or so LSx clutches in Camaros/Firebirds. Since it was my first time pulling the rear of the drivetrain out of a C5, I opted to pay a local tuner to install it while I helped/learned.
The install went smoothly and everything was cleaned and torque'd per RPS' instructions or the GM service manual, where applicable. I also installed a remote bleeder from Eastcoast Performance and a new GM slave cylinder from GMPartsHouse. We flushed new DOT 4 brake fluid through the old master and bled the system until only new fresh fluid was coming out of the bleeder. First start up was smooth with no leaks. It was very very difficult to put into reverse and the pedal pressure was much spongier than stock (with significantly more resistance). I hadn't experienced that with any of the other clutches I've installed but the tuner said it was not uncommon with twin discs. When I let out the clutch, I heard/felt the clutch chatter horribly. The tuner said that he had experienced it on other clutches as well, and it generally goes away during break in. Thus... I was off to break the clutch in.
The break-in of the clutch lasted for nearly 600 miles. It chattered when launching from a standstill (forward and reverse). Never was the clutch shifted hard or at higher than 4k rpms (only a few times above 3500 rpms). I mentioned this problem to rpsvette (President of RPS) and he suggested that the chatter would go away during break in. Rob (rpsvette) also suggested I do some 2nd gear launches to possibly remove uneven spots on the discs. I gave it another week and a half (~300 miles) and decided to yank my headers to inspect the clutch and re-torque the pressure plate. I found nothing wrong with the clutch when I removed the cover, but removed each pressure plate bolt, applied fresh blue Loctite and retorque'd per RPS' spec of 28 ft-lbs. After it was put back together, there was no significant change in the chattering. I should add... that over the ~1000 miles, the chattering did seem to lessen but it never went away. At this point, I read RPS' warranty line-by-line and realized the situation I was faced with. Their warranty basically absolves them from any liability other than the components of the clutch (not even shipping). At this point, I began to question whether I am another victim of the "CorvetteForum clutch hype" where XYZ clutch is the "best" only until a few hundred (thousand?) people install them and problems begin to surface.
I now have over 2,000 miles on the clutch and the clutch is still chattering. I'm to the point now where I'm forced to remove the clutch and find another solution. This means... I have to have the clutch removed (I don't have a place to keep the car while it's down), tie up someone's lift for a week, rent a car, pay to send the clutch back to RPS, wait for them to determine the cause, wait for it to be shipped back, wait for the shop to have time to install it and then write another $500+ check on top of the $1,000 clutch and first install charge. For the folks doing the math... that's right. I'm going to have a $2,500 RPS Organic Twin and roughly 20 hours of my own mechanical work invested.
Of course, I'm upset with my situation. Not all of which is RPS' responsibility or control. However, they have not offered any alternatives to this and stick by their stringent warranty which places nearly all of the liability, cost and aggravation on their customer. This is not what I expect from a company providing a product for a "premium" vehicle at a "premium" price.
In order to save me the cost/hassle of having my car down, I considered purchasing a different clutch, swapping it out, sending the RPS back to be evaluated and replaced, and selling the replacement. However, it seems to me that RPS only intends to replace the piece of the clutch they think is the faulty part. Which means... I'll have a _used_ clutch to sell for yet ANOTHER hit in the checkbook. I sent another email to RPS just about 24 hours ago and have yet to get clarification on their intention on a repair/replacement.
There you have it ladies and gents. The acclaimed RPS clutch isn't bulletproof. They may have had a bad clutch slip through the cracks (it happens to every manufacturer) but the customer service does the least it possibly can to satisfy the customer!
If RPS continues to stick by their wonderful warranty, I think I'll be calling Mike Yeager with Eastcoast for another clutch. HE knows how to treat a customer!
The install went smoothly and everything was cleaned and torque'd per RPS' instructions or the GM service manual, where applicable. I also installed a remote bleeder from Eastcoast Performance and a new GM slave cylinder from GMPartsHouse. We flushed new DOT 4 brake fluid through the old master and bled the system until only new fresh fluid was coming out of the bleeder. First start up was smooth with no leaks. It was very very difficult to put into reverse and the pedal pressure was much spongier than stock (with significantly more resistance). I hadn't experienced that with any of the other clutches I've installed but the tuner said it was not uncommon with twin discs. When I let out the clutch, I heard/felt the clutch chatter horribly. The tuner said that he had experienced it on other clutches as well, and it generally goes away during break in. Thus... I was off to break the clutch in.
The break-in of the clutch lasted for nearly 600 miles. It chattered when launching from a standstill (forward and reverse). Never was the clutch shifted hard or at higher than 4k rpms (only a few times above 3500 rpms). I mentioned this problem to rpsvette (President of RPS) and he suggested that the chatter would go away during break in. Rob (rpsvette) also suggested I do some 2nd gear launches to possibly remove uneven spots on the discs. I gave it another week and a half (~300 miles) and decided to yank my headers to inspect the clutch and re-torque the pressure plate. I found nothing wrong with the clutch when I removed the cover, but removed each pressure plate bolt, applied fresh blue Loctite and retorque'd per RPS' spec of 28 ft-lbs. After it was put back together, there was no significant change in the chattering. I should add... that over the ~1000 miles, the chattering did seem to lessen but it never went away. At this point, I read RPS' warranty line-by-line and realized the situation I was faced with. Their warranty basically absolves them from any liability other than the components of the clutch (not even shipping). At this point, I began to question whether I am another victim of the "CorvetteForum clutch hype" where XYZ clutch is the "best" only until a few hundred (thousand?) people install them and problems begin to surface.
I now have over 2,000 miles on the clutch and the clutch is still chattering. I'm to the point now where I'm forced to remove the clutch and find another solution. This means... I have to have the clutch removed (I don't have a place to keep the car while it's down), tie up someone's lift for a week, rent a car, pay to send the clutch back to RPS, wait for them to determine the cause, wait for it to be shipped back, wait for the shop to have time to install it and then write another $500+ check on top of the $1,000 clutch and first install charge. For the folks doing the math... that's right. I'm going to have a $2,500 RPS Organic Twin and roughly 20 hours of my own mechanical work invested.
Of course, I'm upset with my situation. Not all of which is RPS' responsibility or control. However, they have not offered any alternatives to this and stick by their stringent warranty which places nearly all of the liability, cost and aggravation on their customer. This is not what I expect from a company providing a product for a "premium" vehicle at a "premium" price.
In order to save me the cost/hassle of having my car down, I considered purchasing a different clutch, swapping it out, sending the RPS back to be evaluated and replaced, and selling the replacement. However, it seems to me that RPS only intends to replace the piece of the clutch they think is the faulty part. Which means... I'll have a _used_ clutch to sell for yet ANOTHER hit in the checkbook. I sent another email to RPS just about 24 hours ago and have yet to get clarification on their intention on a repair/replacement.
There you have it ladies and gents. The acclaimed RPS clutch isn't bulletproof. They may have had a bad clutch slip through the cracks (it happens to every manufacturer) but the customer service does the least it possibly can to satisfy the customer!
If RPS continues to stick by their wonderful warranty, I think I'll be calling Mike Yeager with Eastcoast for another clutch. HE knows how to treat a customer!
Last edited by Tech; 10-08-2009 at 03:04 PM. Reason: typo
10-09-2009, 03:35 PM
#4
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Hope it works out for you. Why not take the car to a shop there in St. Louis and ask for another opinion on what the problem might be - I would recommend contacting Performance by Joe - he has a good reputation in the area.
10-09-2009, 07:59 PM
#5
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I have asked them what testing they want me to do to either fix or identify the problem and the only suggestion they gave was conducting a series of 2nd gear starts. I'm not sure what a 2nd opinion will give me other than getting stuck with writing another check.
I replaced all of the normal parts (except for Master) and the clutch doesn't vibrate fully engaged or disengaged. It's just the first 5-10-20 feet that the car shutters.
10-16-2009, 06:14 PM
#7
Race Director
is it possible that it just hasn't seated correctly yet? since you're going to have to tear it out anyway {if this doesn't work} it might not hurt to try a few slip starts from 3-4,000rpm and see if you can get it to break in. it's a similar idea to the second gear start which requires rpm and puts load on the clutch. sometimes a little wear really helps reduce chatter since the surfaces finally mate correctly.
your description of what it does had me thinking this.
your description of what it does had me thinking this.
Last edited by racebum; 10-16-2009 at 06:17 PM.
10-18-2009, 05:25 PM
#8
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Yes, sir. I have intentionally attempted to slip the clutch for small amounts at a time based a discussion with RPS. 2,400 miles now and it still chatters.
10-18-2009, 08:30 PM
#9
Coolest Guy Evar!
Same clutch no chatter but it does squeal when 1st is engaged under any load. I'm going to replace the discs and if that doesn't fix it - out it comes.
-RR
10-18-2009, 11:00 PM
#11
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Glad i did not bought this one, when vengeance was running sale on this 995/-, i was there in Atlanta and vengeance were like only 20-25 miles away from me. Man i resisted myself, glad i did. Thanks for sharing and sorry for ur trouble, u need to be arnold swarznegger to do twice the job of clutch replace in our cars.
10-18-2009, 11:13 PM
#12
Racer
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I was just about to get one of these installed on my car in a week or two. My stock clutch still has some life and I was just going to have one installed with my built z06 trans but now I think I may just wait till after the winter to have everything put in and see what clutch is hot then.
10-19-2009, 03:06 AM
#13
Race Director
maybe, but others have had good luck. who knows. this is part of the reason i'm such a fan of exedy though. every one of their clutches works flawless. at least all that i have had and that spans chevy to honda.
10-19-2009, 01:56 PM
#15
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Of course, improperly installing a clutch could certainly cause premature wear and/or problems. So could a leaky slave cylinder or remote bleeder. However, I personally oversaw the installation and I've removed the inspection cover and found no moisture.
I'm sure that not _ALL_ RPS clutches are bad. My peeve is with their crappy customer service.
I'm sure that not _ALL_ RPS clutches are bad. My peeve is with their crappy customer service.
10-28-2009, 05:39 PM
#17
Safety Car
They don't respond to Emails or answer there phone.I had a bad Centerforce, they sent me a new 1 overnite and paid labor 747.00.My RPS is slipping and I'm told to take it out send it back and then wait for a new one.It's got 2300 miles on it.I've bought more than 1 of these and hope not to have problems withthe others. This is BS again.People who sell clutchs for the C% C6 vettes should have to pay labor when clutch goes bad.This is a high dollar problem. The only help I'm getting is from Tom At Carolina clutch.
11-09-2009, 02:21 PM
#18
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I dropped the clutch off at FedEx today. They should have it by Thursday. I noticed the floater plate had an uneven amount of wear (hot spots) on one side of it. I couldn't find any traces of fluid.
The RPS clutch comes in 5 major pieces... from the back of the engine, they go...
1. Flywheel
2. Disc
3. Floater
4. Disc
5. Pressure plate
I'll use those numbers to explain which piece I'm talking about.
This is the front of the floater (front == facing pressure plate). Notice the hot spots are spread more or less evenly around the floater.
This is the back of the floater. The hot spots are primarily on the upper 1/2 of the floater. I can still see the machining lines on the area where there are no hot spots.
This is of the same view as above, but only the bottom 1/2 where you can see there are significantly less hot spots.
This is a picture of the bottom side of the pressure plate. Even markings...
My money is on an uneven disk or floater. Anybody ever checked on what overnight shipping costs on a clutch? $160 was the cheapest I could find each way.
Here are a few more pictures of misc other views...
#1 - Flywheel
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0313.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0314.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0315.JPG
#2 - Disc
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0316.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0322.JPG
#3 - Floater
Best pictures posted above
#4 - Disc
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0339.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0344.JPG
#5 - Pressure Plate
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0354.JPG
The RPS clutch comes in 5 major pieces... from the back of the engine, they go...
1. Flywheel
2. Disc
3. Floater
4. Disc
5. Pressure plate
I'll use those numbers to explain which piece I'm talking about.
This is the front of the floater (front == facing pressure plate). Notice the hot spots are spread more or less evenly around the floater.
This is the back of the floater. The hot spots are primarily on the upper 1/2 of the floater. I can still see the machining lines on the area where there are no hot spots.
This is of the same view as above, but only the bottom 1/2 where you can see there are significantly less hot spots.
This is a picture of the bottom side of the pressure plate. Even markings...
My money is on an uneven disk or floater. Anybody ever checked on what overnight shipping costs on a clutch? $160 was the cheapest I could find each way.
Here are a few more pictures of misc other views...
#1 - Flywheel
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0313.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0314.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0315.JPG
#2 - Disc
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0316.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0322.JPG
#3 - Floater
Best pictures posted above
#4 - Disc
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0339.JPG
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0344.JPG
#5 - Pressure Plate
http://www.durhamcons.com/corvette/clutch/IMG_0354.JPG
Last edited by Tech; 11-09-2009 at 02:33 PM.
11-09-2009, 02:37 PM
#19
Safety Car
Thread Starter
They don't respond to Emails or answer there phone.I had a bad Centerforce, they sent me a new 1 overnite and paid labor 747.00.My RPS is slipping and I'm told to take it out send it back and then wait for a new one.It's got 2300 miles on it.I've bought more than 1 of these and hope not to have problems withthe others. This is BS again.People who sell clutchs for the C% C6 vettes should have to pay labor when clutch goes bad.This is a high dollar problem. The only help I'm getting is from Tom At Carolina clutch.
It seems that Rob was away at SEMA. I finally got a reply to an email today, after I had notified them it was being shipped.
Last edited by Tech; 11-09-2009 at 03:56 PM.
11-10-2009, 07:40 AM
#20
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I am the buddy with the camaro. Sucks that you have to deal with this J.... Monster clutch all the way!!!! I will do business with that company over and over and over again. A+ Seller fast shipping and best of all excellent customer service and care. I highly recommend Monster Co. Steve Addison is the owner of the company and he personally dealt with every recalled clutch and was a pleasure to work with.
Sucks that you have to deal with this J.... Monster clutch all the way!!!! I will do business with that company over and over and over again. A+ Seller fast shipping and best of all excellent customer service and care. I highly recommend Monster Co. Steve Addison is the owner of the company and he personally dealt with every recalled clutch and was a pleasure to work with.