BlackMagicC5

I've done both and heres a list of the pros and cons that I remember. This is my opinion and based on my experiences.

Stock ATI Kit Pros:
-Not too hard of an install
-More of a factory fit
-Generally ran good
-Very easy to return to stock

Stock ATI Kit Cons:
-Overheating problems (depends)
-Belt slip problems (depends)
-Makes a little less hp than A&A kit (no other mods)
-Not very efficient design
-Very difficult to sell
-Not easily upgradeable (power)
-Doesn't look as good under the hood

A&A kit Pros:
-More hp (no other mods)
-More efficient design
-Boost comes on quicker
-Much better design (performance)
-Much easier to sell
-Easily upgradeable (power)
-Looks awesome under the hood

A&A kit Cons:
-Much harder install
-Lots of drilling, cutting, and relocating
-Much more difficult to return to stock


I have done research, talk to people with different kits, and like I said, I myself had done both kits. When I did the stock ATI kit, the install was pretty straightforward, and fairly easy. My stock ATI kit ran perfectly fine for me, but it was quite obvious by the design that upgrading in power was going to be a problem. I'm sure there would be belt slip issues if I used a smaller pulley for more boost. There would have to be quite a few things changed to make serious power. The bracket and pulley setup is just not really any good. As long as I was cool with 465rwhp at 7lbs, that kit was fine for me. I had no cooling issues whatsoever. The main thing that wasn't good was the inefficient design and that in fact lowers performance. The stock ATI kit is much easier to return to stock, since there minimal changes and relocations, however it is very difficult to sell because of the better A&A kit. Overheating issues seem to be because of the single fan setup and inefficient airflow, but also seem to be in really hot climates. I don't think theres too much belt slip problems when keeping it around 7lbs, but if you up the boost, thats when problems seem to come up.

When I got my A&A kit, it looked much simpler and looked like a breeze to install. I was wrong. I don't know why, but it fought me every step of the way. It was like 10x harder. It just seemed like every little thing that had to be done, required changing stuff, cutting, drilling, trimming, bending, ect. Returning this to stock would not be fun or easy, but selling the kit would not be a problem. The main difference that stood out was how much more efficient the kit looked. Theres hardley any plumbing, one big intercooler, and one badazz bracket setup. Upgrading power, like running a smaller pulley for more boost doesn't seem to be a problem, since the bracket and pulleys are so well designed, I don't think it would slip that easy. Also, the blower intake setup is 100% better as well. I better not even try to explain what the air had to go through on the stock ATI kit to get to the blower, you'd never understand what I'm describing!! Anyway, after getting everything installed, and just taking a step back and looking at it, I realized it was worth the PITA installation. It looks great. I don't really have any performance results yet from the change, but I will in a week or two. Upon driving, I noticed the boost comes on much quicker and it feels much more responsive.

The reason I sold my stock ATI kit is because I was going to do a twin turbo setup, but I realized I didn't quite have the money for that yet. I can't be without forced induction for long, so I decided to pick up the A&A kit for the time being. I'll probably do the twin turbo project sometime later on in the year.

My verdict: For me, I wouldn't get the stock ATI kit again. I'd rather suck it up through the installation and have the A&A kit just because of the performance design and looks. I'd say all around the A&A kit is much better designed, Andy did a good job with it.

If anyone has any questions about a specific thing I said, or wants me to elaborate or explain, just let me know.

Sportsdude

Congrates I had thought of going to A&A kit but I think I will wait to see some of TT systems that are coming out. I have the stock ATI system now running at 7PSI and it will have to do until I decide what route to take. Even with my stock system, I have a hard time keeping my car from fish tailing under WOT. With that said, I still want more horses and it will be one of the TT or A&A kit but with the F1 instead.

XCELER8

Awesome write up..
Thanks for taking the time. Since you have seen both kits take a look at mine. Tell me if you can tell if my kit is ATI or an aftermarket setup. I know some of the pieces are ONE off from MTI. Its an 8 Rib setup which I know and my intercoolers are prototype 4.5inchs thick. Other than that I dont know what I am getting...
Heres a picture:

You can also look in my sig to see more of an installed setup.
Jon

kromberg

Mine has fought me ever step also

Keith

SR71

Nice bracket and head unit, xceler8. but, those twin intercoolers and all the associated piping can't possibly work as well as the A&A single intercooler and short, direct plumbing. it would be cool to have Andy's intercooler and plumbing with your head and bracket. that would make a killer blower even better.

I'll be curious to see how much power BlownFRC picks up over his old set-up.

XCELER8

I was going to go single, but this kit with piping is not your standard piping or Kit you get from ATI (as you can tell by the brackets). This kit is good upto 750+rwhp w/ a custom gear ratio. The pipiping is larger in Diamiter than the stock ATI also. I don admit I dont know a lot about the kit other than what I mentioned above. Intresting to see the numbers this makes at 10PSI.
Jon

7.0sc SuperVette

[QUOTE=BlownFRC

Also, the blower intake setup is 100% better as well. I better not even try to explain what the air had to go through on the stock ATI kit to get to the blower, you'd never understand what I'm describing!! UNQUOTE)

I'm glad you mentioned this...I don't remember seeing anyone address this before on the Forum.
When Andy put his upgraded kit on my C5, I stood there looking at the old ATI air inlet setup and was is total disbelief! The geometry of it is appalling-it is one big sharp right angle bend with a big hulk of sheet metal immediately facing the blower inlet! I'm sure that only the most ambitious and dexterous of air molecules could negotiate through that skinny inlet configuration!
And then there's the air cleaner, teeny, tiny! I'm sure it must be a special open porous weave (that may let a lot of larger particles through), otherwise you would have to clean it about every 500 miles or immediately after a couple hundred feet on a dirt road.
Anyway, as soon as Andys' setup was on my car, my cars asthmatic wheezing and pitiful sucking sounds stopped and a couple more lbs. of boost miraculously appeared!

Roy

creighton

I'm very interested in hearing what has to be modified to install the A&A kit. I'm thinking about purchasing it this summer or fall and want to make sure it isn't something I'll regret doing. TIA

XCELER8

So since you switched from stock to A&A what was your HP gain given the same boost level. Also what type of unit were you using so we have something to base it on. This way if I want to goto a SIC later I can get an idea of how much extra power I can pick up.
Jon

Andy@A&ACorvette

I'll throw my 2 cents worth in here. The intake duct over the radiator can be areal PITA to install, but that's where a lot of the efficiency is gained. Look how much an aftermarket intake does for a naturally aspirated motor. Opening up the inlet does the same for a forced induction setup. More air into the blower- more air into the motor.
When we do them at my shop, it actually takes less time than the standard setup for us to install. Although, I'll be the first to admit that the air inlet and top radiator support can be frustrating. I'm working on having an inlet duct fabricated with a large offset in it so that the upper support will not need to be modified so much. It will still need to be shortened but the top won't have to be trimmed out for clearance. It will be functioanlly the same, just easier to install.
As for putting it back to stock: that's really not a big deal. A new skid bar and and upper support are all that is needed. They bolt right in and are fairly cheap.
As always, I'm always open for suggestions.
I've had a few requests for a clear shroud so that you can see the intercooler and filter etc. So I'll make a few that way for those that want them. Different colors for tubing and couplers are always available too. all you have to do is ask. Any other suggestions, requests?

BlackMagicC5

I'm not an expert by any means, and I'm just going by what I experienced with the 2 kits. I also suck at installing things, and have a really short temper, so keep that in mind. Thats mostly the reason I had so much trouble. If I had to install a smooth intake coupler, with my luck, it wouldn't line up, be too short, too long, not stretch enough or something like that. It would probably take me all day to do it. Thats just the kind of luck and lack of skill I have, but I do get through things. I don't really know anything about your setup, but from what I've seen, everything in Andys kit plays a small roll in a different way, and I wouldn't want to leave something out. The bracket is important if you want to make big power without slippage. Andys blower intake setup is important in making more hp vs the other setup. The "straight shot" and "reduced" plumbing is important for having the boost come on quick and hard, with minimal lag so to speak. As far as intercoolers go, big single vs small duals, I can't really say which is better for efficiency; however, having the boosted air take a straight shot through the single intercooler and into the motor has to be better than having it split to each intercooler, travel seperate, then rejoin before entering the motor. Thats why the single intercooler seems to work better. I think thats where the efficiency and quicker boost comes into play, but I really don't know for sure. Its just a lot of little things that add up to a well designed package.

BlackMagicC5

I've decided to pick up a 4.25'' pulley so all the conditions match exactly as it was on the stock ati kit. That will let me compare kit to kit without any other factors interfering. I was peaking at 7lbs of boost when it was warm out and 8lbs of boost when it cooled down out. That was with the stock ati setup. We'll see what the increase in boost is and horsepower with all other conditions the same as soon as I get it on the dyno. Same tuner also, so EVERYTHING is EXACTLY the same. I'll post the results when I get them. Should be about a week or two.

BlackMagicC5

I agree. The stock ati intake setup is ridiculous. It seems like they just didn't want to be bothered designing something worth while, and figured that was good enough. The kit runs good for what it is, but just don't expect to make serious power without having to do some changes, (in the direction of the A&A kit).

EatRice

I used to have Andy's kit. I only had two problems with it. I still had belt slip...but I had belt slip with previous bracket also. And the couplers. I had couplers blow off the head unit all the time and off the MAF. I changed all the couplers to transition hoses and had no more problems. Ofcourse my kit was closer to when he started making the kit...it might have changed now.

crvtble

I bought Andy's kit (P1) last month, and had ADS in Chandler AZ do the install and tune. The install even for the experts turned out to be a longer job than they expected. Getting the radiator just right and the silicone tubing aligned was the slowest part. They had done the ATI install, but hadn't done one of Andy's kits.
Good #'s so far.....all stock 2002 LS1 except for aftermarket exhaust....573 FWHP/502 FWTQ on a Mustang Dyno. 11.8 to 12 for the A/F. Still have stock fuel pump, kept up 55 to 58 lbs. up to 6000 RPM. I got nearly 8# of boost at 6K. They still recommend a BAP or a Racetronix just to be safe. All I need now is an aftermarket clutch and big ole' tires...

Scubanme

Thanks for taking the time to let us know about the realities of SC setup installation.

BlackMagicC5

Yup, laying down the radiator was a pain. I didn't realize the top part of the radiator had to be just about flush with the top of the frame. I know, it says those exact words in the directions, but I over looked it. I didn't have it laying down enough, so by the time I got everything done, the 2 pipes that go over the radiator, 1 to the throttle body, 1 to the blower intake, yup you guessed it, it didn't clear the hood. Dope!!! Pull everything back off, and screw with the radiator some more until its low enough so the pipes clear.

BlackMagicC5

Well, its 1am here, and I'm too tired to think of any suggestions or requests as far as the kit goes, but one thing does come to mind for me. I don't know if theres a lot of people like me as far as installing, or if the average DIY'er sucks as much as I do, but the instructions could use a little more detail. That would have helped me most. Maybe see if you could improve the pictures, more, better quality, and describe things a little better. I have a major complaint with the stock ati manual, they leave out some very serious steps. In the pinning the crank part, the stock ati manual leaves out the removal of the traction control unit, disconnecting tie rods, pulling wheels off, and some other very important parts like that. I like your pinning the crank section, but your laying down the radiator section was a little difficult for me. If your interested, I'd be more than happy to suggest a few things you can add to make installations go smoother and quicker for average people who haven't done one before and have just basic skills.

BlackMagicC5

No problem. I want everyone to know as much as possible before they get into it. It's always nice to somewhat know what your getting into before you actually do. The A&A kit is well worth the effort, imho.

mdhmi

I agree. I read the A&A instructions before I purchased my ECS kit just to get a feel for what would be involved. By page two I realized that I would be in way over my head and decided to send my car to a 'tuner'.

Mark