Tony @ MPH

I posted in tech/performance the other day about really black oil coming out of my engine just after I put it in (realized it was not synthetic and immediately drained it before starting the car): http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=754260

Today I was removing my valve covers to prep them for some red paint and also to get the car ready for my Z06 valve springs. Then I noticed this:



and this:



which looks nothing like jmX's:



Is this normal? Is it a result of supercharging the car? See the clean spots on the valve cover? Either the rockers are blocking the oil from spraying up there or they are coming close enough to the cover to "clean" the oil off of it.

The good news is, I figured out the long standing mystery of why there was so much oil inside my engine bay and around my stock ATI air intake filter -- the PCV nipple nearest the oil fill cap was routed over to a nipple right by the air filter. I suspect this is to vent the PCV gasses right into the intake filter, which also explains why I always have oil inside my Procharger and the rest of the plumbing. Is that normal? When I posted weeks back about there being oil inside my Procharger and the plumbing it seemed nobody knew a thing about this.


[Modified by diynoob, 6:17 PM 2/16/2004]

VETZILLA

I don't know what it is, but I am really interested in finding out.

Anyone??????????????

:lurk:

runamuk

Has your oil or engine ever overheated, it looks like the oil is coking inside the valve cover

dads01dream

:iagree: I had an old '77 Monte as a kid and the valve covers looked alot like this, man that poor car was rough. You would think with the Mobil 1 ALL our engines should look like JMX's. How's your car's normal operating temp? You're down there in Florida..... perhaps the heat is an issue for you. Could your temp gauge be reading falsely??

Perhaps we'll hear from a "true" engine man from here? Could how your heads look be indicative of your missing hp??? :lurk:

Tony @ MPH

Normal operating temp is between 180 and 220, depending on the heat outside and how hard I run the car. The highest my engine has ever been was about 230, at which point it shut off the AC to allow itself to cool down again.

That shouldn't be enough to do anything bad to the oil from what I understand. Unless of course the Valvoline guys put in some kind of oil this engine shouldn't have had at some point. Yes I have Valvoline do my oil on the 3000 mile marker so there's a service history (I swap the oil myself at the 1500 mile marker since I run the car hard almost all the time). Also I don't think the temp gauge is off since it moves the way I would expect it to (reads 70 at a cold start when it's 70 outside, gets up to 160-180 pretty fast, gets hotter as I run the car hard or if I'm in stop & go traffic).

dads01dream, I hope it does eventually lead to why my car is not performing on par... let's see how deep this rabbit hole goes...


[Modified by diynoob, 9:08 PM 2/16/2004]

vetterdstr

Everytime I took my covers off they didnt look like that... :nonod: whatever it is I hope you find out soon and get it fixed... Please keep us posted.. :yesnod:

VR :cheers:

Tony @ MPH

It looks like I'm getting a lot more oil in there than others do. I hope someone knows what could be causing this... :sad:

vetterdstr

Well not only that, what oil you are getting is dirty and the deposits are sticking to the cover and top of the heads... you know it looks like somebody didnt change the oil for a long period of time and over heated it as well... You sure you didnt have/dont have an issue with your oil pump?

VR :cheers:


[Modified by vetterdstr, 7:37 PM 2/16/2004]

Tony @ MPH

How can I check if I have an issue with the oil pump? I change the oil regularly and have never driven the car for more than 3500 miles between changes. In many cases it's far fewer miles.

The very last time I went to get my oil changed, Valvoline said that the oil was particularly dirty and thick and they recommended some kind of engine cleaning treatment. I didn't pay close attention, but it seemed they put it in the oil fill hole and then ran the engine for 5-10 minutes, then drained and filled with new oil. All oil changes prior to that they didn't have anything particularly interesting to say about my oil, and that was the first time I went to them with any substantial miles on the car after getting the blower.

QuickSilver2002

IMHO, All of your problems are caused by blowby. I hate to say it, but your motor is in the downward spiral.

nobody knew anything about this? Read my response to your post again http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=722632

Blowby gasses have nowhere to go under boost but the PCV fresh air source. This is the line you see going to your air filter.

Your motor breathes this crap back in and you are suddenly running 82 octane under boost (not good, and the rings just took another hit).

Tony @ MPH

Downward spiral? Is your opinion that there is some irreversible damage here that will just get worse and worse?

You're right... sorry for the mistake. I must have had a few too many drinks that night. About half of my CF favorites in IE are posts from you so I definitely don't ignore them.

So what are my options here? If this is just blowby then I obviously would not approach my dealer since it is my responsibility.

QuickSilver2002

In my opinion, yes. I hope I'm wrong, but it sure sounds like you have excessive blowby, and that will not cure itself. The motor will still run pretty good for quite some time, but it will just keep getting worse and worse. I've talked to several different qualified people about blowby and everyone seems to have a different opinion about what is excessive (it is one of those gray areas). The only real fix is new pistons and rings (which basically calls for a new forged shortblock while you are in there). I'm in the same boat and have a feeling that some the 01 and early 02 ls1 cars were screwed up from the factory and just can't take boost.

Don't take my word for it. Do a leak down and compression test.

You can do the test yourself or you can take it to a decent shop (one that is not trying to sell you what you do not need). Are you near any reputable tuners in FL like Norris?

Here is a quick poor mans test for blowby (it just gives you some indication - not as good as a leakdown). Block off all your crankcase vents and cap the intake pcv inlet (you must make sure it is all capped or the test won't work). Open the oil filler cap and let the car run. After it is well warmed up, tell us what you see. If it puffs like a train you most likely are in the downward spiral. It could still be other things like a bad valve seal... The leakdown will help pinpoint the problem.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

I want to mention that I'm not an internals guru of any sort. I'm just going on some basic knowledge and some experience and I hope I'm not leading you in the wrong direction. Remember, the forum is mainly a place to hear opinions and experiences from fellow enthisiast. You really need to verify the diagnoses on your own.


[Modified by QuickSilver2002, 1:06 AM 2/17/2004]

mfrnka

:lurk:

av8or3

The clean spots on the inside of your valve cover are directly over the pushrods and is where the oil is sprayed over and onto the rest of the valve
train and that is why it is so clean. I know what you've said but it looks like the oil isn't being changed enough,or it's a high milage engine. I can't imagine what can cause a low milage,properly maintained engine to look like this. If you find a problem I'ld like to know about it. I change the oil in my car every 3000 miles and it looks like dark honey when its drained.I can look down the filler neck and tell that my engine still looks clean inside,and I'm
comming up on 43,000 miles. Let us know.

dads01dream

Hey Quick,

Great writeup! I was thinking blowby too, but didn't want to raise any red flags :bb . My take was that this situation would present itself out the exhaust, I wasn't sure it would be manifest in the valve covers.

Diynoob, looks like you've got some work ahead of you. What year is your Vette? How many miles? Do you have any greasy spotting on your tailpipes? How often do you need to top off the oil between changes?

Wish ya the best, please keep us informed. :grouphug:

runamuk

:iagree:

Since your engine doesn't run hot and has not overheated 230 is high but I was looking for excessive oil temp, more than likely your getting blowby which is causing the hot gases in the combustion chamber to enter the crankcase causing the oil to coke.

MelloYellow

You ever change your pushrods?
Do they have oiling holes?
Just curious.

Tony @ MPH

Thanks guys for all the help and suggestions. Sadly, my Vette is a 2002 with about 30K miles on the motor. I admittedly drive the car hard almost all the time but I also take care of it maintenance-wise and change fluids often.

I haven't bought a compression test kit yet but I was going to need one for my valve springs. So I'll do that and post back the results, as well as give QuickSilver's DIY blowby test a shot.

Tony @ MPH

Never changed the pushrods -- why do you ask?

Busa196

:lurk: