Cerberus

I was curious about the acceleration differences between the two systems on a ZO6. It is clear that the Magnacharger has a much broader torque curve, with the ATI making a lot more peak horsepower. However, which equates to being faster on the freeway? the dragstrip?

How would a 500 hp (crank) Magnacharger car stand up against a 650+hp (crank) ATI D1SC car from say 40 to 140MPH? How about in the quarter mile? Top speed? Would the ATI's superior hp overide the Magnacharger's torque?

I read a C&D review of a C5 coupe with the Magnacharger putting out 500 horsepower at the crank running the quarter in 11.7 @ 126 MPH. They estimated the car's top speed to be 197 MPH. :eek: That is very impressive, especially on street tires. Should the ATI car run better times? Faster top speed?

It would be great to see posts from you guys with superchargers quoting your quarter mile times, trap speed and mods.

Thanks.



[Modified by Cerberus, 1:50 PM 8/1/2003]

GraveDigger

So far there have not been many great times for the magnuson. I don't think a 500rwhp Mag has run yet, only 400hp-445hp. Times have been mostly in the mid to lower 12s@ 116ish. Traction and launch seens to be the big challenge. As for ATI i will let those guys answer.

Tod


[Modified by GraveDigger, 2:47 PM 8/1/2003]

SleepieAce

Haven't run into a Mag driver yet to find out which is faster :D As for 1/4 mile times, I haven't had mine to the track yet...I plan on going after the exhaust is on. From some of the things I've done on country roads, though, I wouldn't expect more than low 12's as well. Traction is a major problem on the stock tires. 40 to 140 seems like it would be right in my wheelhouse. The car doesn't feel a whole lot faster on launch, but when the boost hits at 30 to 40 it becomes a major beast :cheers:

Just my .02. I'm not an expert, so if anything I've said is wrong or :conehead I'm sure someone will correct me :flag

SteveL2

It's a tough comparison, for various reasons. Traction is an issue for both. Also, for now, it's much easier to turn the boost up on the ATI. There are folks running the "safe" boost for the ATI (5-7 psi???), and those of course are not as fast as the others that are upping the boost. My guess would be that since the "safe" boosted cars put down comparable rwhp to the Magnas, then it'd be a pretty even ride, assuming comparable launches. At speed, the ATI has more power in the higher RPMs, so in theory it'll outlast the Magna at the big end.

Also possibly making this even more interesting is Magnuson is supposedly working on an intercooled version. This will allow upping the boost on those cars, thereby increasing the speed of them as well.

Of course, either car will self-destruct without forged internals if you go too far, so that'll become part of the equation as well.

These guessing games, however, are hard to pin down because many folks haven't stopped at just bolting on a supercharger. They add parts, tweaks, etc., and pretty soon it's comparing apples to oranges.

Clear as mud, huh? :crazy:

Devil Dog

You are giving the ATI an 150 hp advantage,of course it will dominate in every category,also the ATI or any centrifugal blower for that matter is gonna outperform a Magnuson because of superior air flow in the higher rpm region and air flow equals horsepower.

The Magnuson is a great STREET blower for people looking for a quick 80-100 rwhp increase and instant torque,you can bolt it on and forget it.

The ATI is more for people who want to constantly push for more HP with other modifications.

NJ99FRC

OMFG! :lolg: :lolg: :lolg: :lolg: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheers: YOU ARE A FUNNY SOB! :lol: :lol: :lol:

hogurt

:iagree: Well said.

I believe that a moderately boosted ATI 6-7psi will outrun the Magnusson in either the quarter or big end. Remember the ATI runs and extra 1-2psi because it's intercooled. If they come up with an intercooler for the Magnusson, then I suspect either setup will generate similar results at moderate boost levels. As the boost goes higher, the ATI has a design advantage.

There are also some other threads, on this forum, that compare the HP/TQ curves from the two blowers. If I remember correctly, from 3k rpms and higher the ATI has an advantage in TQ and HP? In a quarter mile, it's unlikely you will ever see anything below 3k.

My .02 cents. :cheers:

GraveDigger

I think the Magnuson is faster :lurk:

hogurt

. . .than stock! :lurk:

Bruce

giving both cars are equal. # for # for a 1/4 mile run or top end power ATI will win hand down.

Bruce

knewblewkorvette

plus you don't have to replace your vette's hood :boxing

Shinobi'sZ

Well I have only heard of two C5's with ATI's running into the 10's without NOS.

We will see if the 500+rwhp magnusson that came out of John Pages's shop runs in the 1/4...if the driver is good of course.

GR8-LIFE

It depends. Lets take a 70-75 degree weather example when the lack of an Intercooler wouldn't hurt too much. In this case, all things being equal, including drivers, the MAGNA easily get get off to a quicker start. At some point the Procharger will reel it on. Whether its before the 1/4 mi finish or afterwards, I don't know.

That same scenario in 95 degree weather, thats when the lack of an IC is gonna hurt real bad.

hogurt

Once again, I don't believe that the dyno graph numbers show a significant difference at 3k rpms. In a 1/4 mile run, most cars will never get below 3k. From 3k and above, the ATI will put out more power.

I believe it's a faulty assumption to say the Magnusson will get of to a better start? :confused:

Heck, let's say the Magnusson had tons more torque at the start, wouldn't that just make it more difficult to launch? I'm not certain that a huge torque advantage, off the line, is that big of a deal.

Consider that the stock Z06 runs nearly identical 1/4 mi. times as a stock Viper. Off the line, the Viper has nearly 100 tq advantage. . .

Cerberus

When I look at the dyno chart of the Magna car, it looks impressive due to the amount of torque that comes on very early and it stays very flat to redline. This is the reason why I think a Magnacharged car would be quite a bit quicker than its 500 crank hp (100 over stock) rating would believe you think it to be.

However, it makes a lot of sense that the Magnacharger might not have the advantage in the quarter mile, since you probably will not see much below 3000 RPMs (Magna's advantage) during the 1320 foot run as Hogurt mentioned in a previous post.


[Modified by Cerberus, 1:34 PM 8/4/2003]

HIGHRPM

Time to post these numbers again.... this chart shows the clear advantage of the ATI P1 over the Magnacharger from 3000 rpm to redline. Torque below 3000 just isn't a factor in a 1/4 mile drag race. Neither car will hook well in first gear and after that that ATI just makes too much power for it to be close. This chart is for the P1 blower....the D1 makes even more power and the ATI advantage is even bigger.

RPM Delta HP Delta Torque
2600 5 20
3000 0 2
3500 -7 -17
4000 -30 -42
4300 -23 -45
4500 -50 -65
5000 -67 -72
5225 -78 -73
5500 -70 -68
6000 -88 -73
6200 -93 -71

Devil Dog

That is not a good example because a Viper will clean a ZO6's clock.
2003 Viper 11.77 @ 123.63 mph
2003 ZO6 12.44 @ 116.54 mph

Cerberus

How about 110+ degrees? It does gets a little warm here in the desert.

GR8-LIFE

You will be foolish not to be without some kind of intercooler if you are going FI. JMO.

Cerberus

The reason I asked my original questions is because I have a D1 with other mods on my ZO6, which pulled over 570 hp at the rear wheels (640 crank hp??) on a 65 degree day.

I have been curious how my car will run in the quarter mile with these mods under ideal conditions with an experienced driver. The only reference I have is the Lingenfelter/Magnusson C5 tested by Car and Driver.

Should an ATI supercharged ZO6 with over 570 rwhp be able to reach 130 MPH in the quarter mile assuming there is traction? It seems reasonable, since the Ligenfelter car did 126 MPH with approx 140 hp less.

Does this make sense?


[Modified by Cerberus, 6:48 PM 8/4/2003]