Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT?
10-08-2002, 04:28 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT?
I have been slowly building my 00 Coupe as a bracket drag car ulitimately to run in the LOW 11's with a blower and still remain streetable! Check out my mods below - I eased up on the cam (562 lift) and compression (10.8), fully rollerized the "upper end" in defferance to a blower. Now comes the problem - choosing the blower!!! I searched the forum and found serious issues with ATI (Which was my first choice), belt changing problems with Vortex, and questionable results not to mention hood problems and monster install time with the Magnicharger. If you guys were at this stage (I am running 12.10 @ 113 MPH / 1.745 60' consistently) WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP???????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????
Serious Help Needed
JR :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Serious Help Needed
JR :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
10-08-2002, 05:09 PM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
Installing my Magnason took a total of about twenty working hours with other improvements along the way. After having done one I believe it could easily be done in one day with a helper. My car runs very strong with programming that was provided by Magnuson and it took about three minutes to load. Concerning the LPE hood I noticed a tiny spot on the underside of the hood where it had touched a few times on the top forward tip of the blower. With a little ajustment raising the forward bumpers so that the hood lines are even clerance problems are gone. Also My personal opinion is the looks are awsome.
It logically makes sense that the ATI or units producing more boost would ultimatley be best for drag racing to get the best ***** out performance and add heads and cam as well. So far however I have not seen many good times from them. Maybe they are just not sharing.
To each his own--Good Luck finding yours.
Tod :seeya
[Modified by GraveDigger, 9:11 PM 10/8/2002]
It logically makes sense that the ATI or units producing more boost would ultimatley be best for drag racing to get the best ***** out performance and add heads and cam as well. So far however I have not seen many good times from them. Maybe they are just not sharing.
To each his own--Good Luck finding yours.
Tod :seeya
[Modified by GraveDigger, 9:11 PM 10/8/2002]
10-08-2002, 05:21 PM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
JR,
I would suggest you call Geoff at Performance Technical Center at 847-228-7256. He has been involved with superchargers on C5’s for 4 years. He may be a little higher priced than some of the alternatives but he has a lot of trouble free installations. He is up in Elk Grove Village so it is not too far for you. I started out with his stock system on a stock motor and it ran great as a daily driver but would really hall butt when you jumped on it. We are currently putting the finishing touches on my 402 motor with a “T” trim supercharger. It made 660 HP up to about 5400 rpm when the belt started to slip. Geoff has ordered a cog serpentine belt that when installed should take the car past 700HP. It is a great daily driver and the only problem I have had is that if you jump on it at 60 it will break the tires loose.
Tom
I would suggest you call Geoff at Performance Technical Center at 847-228-7256. He has been involved with superchargers on C5’s for 4 years. He may be a little higher priced than some of the alternatives but he has a lot of trouble free installations. He is up in Elk Grove Village so it is not too far for you. I started out with his stock system on a stock motor and it ran great as a daily driver but would really hall butt when you jumped on it. We are currently putting the finishing touches on my 402 motor with a “T” trim supercharger. It made 660 HP up to about 5400 rpm when the belt started to slip. Geoff has ordered a cog serpentine belt that when installed should take the car past 700HP. It is a great daily driver and the only problem I have had is that if you jump on it at 60 it will break the tires loose.
Tom
10-08-2002, 06:35 PM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
I don't know where you guys are comming from on the long install for the magnason? 20 hours? A friend and I did mine in 5 hours including lowering the front end. Heck we've removed the trans and rear end, rebuilt the trans and had it back in the car in less than 4. What is going to take you the longest is pinning the crank, and that was not too bad. We've also install a ATI on a Harley Davidson truck and it took a lot longer, more pieces with that system.
10-08-2002, 06:36 PM
#5
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (TomC5)
Tom, Glad to see you're getting close to the 700 RWHP figure! :eek: Too bad I can't have the same "problem" :rolleyes: you do. :lol:
10-08-2002, 06:46 PM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (KerryH)
I don't know where you guys are comming from on the long install for the magnason? 20 hours?
--------------------------------
I spent an hour putting in the rear manifold bolt on the passenger side. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I spent an hour putting in the rear manifold bolt on the passenger side. :lol: :lol: :lol:
10-08-2002, 07:18 PM
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St. Jude Donor '06
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
I say check out the single turbo from Cerra Racing as this bad boy would give you 500rwhp all day with major torque and should be good for low 11s high 10s all day, assumming hookup with et streets, hoosier slicks, etc.
:seeya ,
Nitrovette
:seeya ,
Nitrovette
10-08-2002, 08:46 PM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (GraveDigger)
GraveDigger......... Ok that rear passanger one was a bitch, but did you have to unbolt and move the whole thing forward because you couldn't reach the MAP sensor? :jester
10-08-2002, 11:19 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (Nitrovette)
Nitrovette - as my eyes gaze over your list of mods I don't see the turbo you refer to. How come? I never gave a turbo much though as I always heard they fell short of "on demand" boost. Are there belt, cooling, etc. etc. problems. Geoff s' setup moves the battery etc. etc. which in turn creates NHRA problems in a coupe not to mention it takes for ever to change the belt on a vortex. The Pro charger has major cooling issues not to mention the air tubes create problems for the front clip ( no real support). That brings us to the LPE blower which I am concerned about the roots style end results which don't seem to be posted clearly by the guys running them now.
JR :rolleyes:
JR :rolleyes:
10-08-2002, 11:28 PM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
JR ,
With the exception of an initial belt alignment problem my Blower has been troublefree..and the Performance results still blow me away. I'm going in to my 3rd month with this set up.
I say go with the ATI :yesnod:
Good luck with whatever choice you make.
:cheers:
Jeff
With the exception of an initial belt alignment problem my Blower has been troublefree..and the Performance results still blow me away. I'm going in to my 3rd month with this set up.
I say go with the ATI :yesnod:
Good luck with whatever choice you make.
:cheers:
Jeff
10-08-2002, 11:43 PM
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St. Jude Donor '06
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
JR:
No turbo listed for me yet as i don't have anymore expendable $ for the turbo kit and am still paying off the major $ i invested in my current set-up. THe single turbo just put out by Cerra Racing is the hottest new mod out right now and i would encourage you to visit them (just 2 hours west of you) like i did for a test drive and to get all your tech questions asked. Call them also and ask for GORDY and he wil give you all the info you can handle. I went there in person and went for a test ride and this set up ROCKS. No heating issues and no belts and instant power and torque on demand for 8 to 9K installed!:D
Check it out for yourself and see for yourself. Will be several cars done in the Chicagoland area in the next several weeks/months and will be plenty of oppurtunity to go for test rides with forum members cars to be done in the immediate future. BLACK SUN who has an A4 is dropping his A4 off next week and i can't wait to get a ride in that BEAST when its done! :smash:
Best of luck,
Nitrovette
No turbo listed for me yet as i don't have anymore expendable $ for the turbo kit and am still paying off the major $ i invested in my current set-up. THe single turbo just put out by Cerra Racing is the hottest new mod out right now and i would encourage you to visit them (just 2 hours west of you) like i did for a test drive and to get all your tech questions asked. Call them also and ask for GORDY and he wil give you all the info you can handle. I went there in person and went for a test ride and this set up ROCKS. No heating issues and no belts and instant power and torque on demand for 8 to 9K installed!:D
Check it out for yourself and see for yourself. Will be several cars done in the Chicagoland area in the next several weeks/months and will be plenty of oppurtunity to go for test rides with forum members cars to be done in the immediate future. BLACK SUN who has an A4 is dropping his A4 off next week and i can't wait to get a ride in that BEAST when its done! :smash:
Best of luck,
Nitrovette
10-08-2002, 11:51 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (BLUTHUNDER)
BLUTHUNDER - How did you deal with the single fan (ie. cooling problem) to keep the temp. down around 180 deg where the LS1 likes it to make peak HP? Also how did you deal with the weight of the tubes hanging below the front clip? I run a Be-Cool radiator and I am being told that the ATI system will significantly restrict the air flow through the radiator. I am also being told that the ATI system air tubes/intercoolers cause the front clip to sag to the point that they must be covered up (at the bottom) or some how supported so they don't hang down? I like the idea of being able to change a belt on the ATI Pro-Charger without removing the whole unit! I also heard the injectors supplied with the kit are to small - did you find that true?
JR :eek:
JR :eek:
10-09-2002, 12:02 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (Nitrovette)
Nitrovette - I should be racing this sunday at 66 (Drag News Mag. Bracket Championships) weather permitting. After that its TT only Until 10/30/02 then too cold to get traction. Next month is Vettefest at McCormic Place I should be there with FLP. SSOO I think I may check out Cerra ( Where is it and whats the phone #) I will put the "Black Mags" on and take off the racing tires and take a "CRUZ"
JR :cool:
JR :cool:
10-09-2002, 12:02 AM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
We are a dealer for all the Brands and use ATI for the Vettes. When you learn the tricks to make them right such as cooling, belt slipping and tuning they are the best performing modification bar none. We have had great success with the ATI kits. Just make sure you go to someone that has experience with them. Good luck in your desicion :seeya
10-09-2002, 12:12 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (CHRIS NJ C5)
CHRIS NJ C5 - FLP is about 1 hour south of me and they have done a lot of work on my vette and are saying about the same thing you are. In doing my home work and searching the forum I came across quite a bit of controversy to say the least about the ATI kit, cooling, etc. that is why I am "checking things out" I probably have a total of $20,000 out so far and the last leg is the blower so I want to "do it right" You can see by my post what my goal is. I do some of the work myself but I don't have a lift, and dynoing at each step is crucial I think. FLP has their own dyno and seems to be extremely professional!
JR :yesnod:
JR :yesnod:
10-09-2002, 12:13 AM
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St. Jude Donor '06
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
Cerra Racing is 2 hours west on I-88 in Rock Island, IL at the IL/Iowa border. THey are a forum tuner here so you can get their phone number and exact addres but looking them up here as forum tuner.
Also, there are many major threads over the last few weeks in the forced induction section about Cerra and the single turbo and look there also for a ton of info. One of those posts are mine entitled "Have major whip lash and need neck brace after test ride in single turbo 01 Zo6":D Also, i have no personal or financial interest with Cerra but just want to let you know about the hottest new C5 performance mod which has hit the performanc circuit like a ton of bricks and is only several hours away from you.
Goodluck and have fun.
:seeya Nitrovette
Also, there are many major threads over the last few weeks in the forced induction section about Cerra and the single turbo and look there also for a ton of info. One of those posts are mine entitled "Have major whip lash and need neck brace after test ride in single turbo 01 Zo6":D Also, i have no personal or financial interest with Cerra but just want to let you know about the hottest new C5 performance mod which has hit the performanc circuit like a ton of bricks and is only several hours away from you.
Goodluck and have fun.
:seeya Nitrovette
10-09-2002, 12:28 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (GraveDigger)
Tod - your setup is awsome and I am taking a long look at the LPE unit!
JR :yesnod:
JR :yesnod:
10-09-2002, 12:33 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (TomC5)
TOM - I have seen your Vette and it is super. Geoff has done some work on my Vette, he put the line lock in amoung other things. Vortec is a unit that I am considering and Geoff Skorupa is probably one of the top tuners in our area. Thanks for the post.
JR :yesnod:
JR :yesnod:
10-09-2002, 01:26 AM
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Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
BLUTHUNDER - How did you deal with the single fan (ie. cooling problem) to keep the temp. down around 180 deg where the LS1 likes it to make peak HP?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blu Wrote :
My temp holds around 190-195 Degs all day in 80+ deg weather with hard highway driving.( i think the custom tuning from MMS helped in this area..Turning the fans on and off etc...) . If i throw the AC in hot wheather the temp gets up around 215 degs ( not to high but i would like to see it lower ) ...So i am probably going to have Andy at A&A work some of his custom cooling magic and have the rad positoning lower and the stock fans re-installed.. Not a mandatory mod, but since i plan on doing a lot of desert driving in the Hot summer months it would be a good idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Also how did you deal with the weight of the tubes hanging below the front clip?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blu Wrote :
Its actually very easy to raise the large plumbing , all you have to do is cut away some of the plastic that restricts you from turning /raising the tubes...I can take a few pics and email them to you explaining in more detail. A picture is worth a thousand words :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I run a Be-Cool radiator and I am being told that the ATI system will significantly restrict the air flow through the radiator.
>>>>>>>>>>
Blu wrote :
Its rediculous just how much the ATI set up restricts the airflow, if you take a look at the ATI fans they litterily block off about a 1/3 of the air flow to your rad..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am also being told that the ATI system air tubes/intercoolers cause the front clip to sag to the point that they must be covered up (at the bottom) or some how supported so they don't hang down?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blu Wrote :
I have not had any problem with this..With a little work you can have all the plumbing flush with the cross member or even higher.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the idea of being able to change a belt on the ATI Pro-Charger without removing the whole unit! I also heard the injectors supplied with the kit are to small - did you find that true?
>>>
Blu Wrote :
I ordered the D1-SC , and MMS installed 46 Lbs injectors ..MMS also had to install a custom fuel management system to handle the tremendous fuel supply ..This will be key if you go with an aggressive Cam and are pushing 550 + RWHP.
:cheers:
Good Luck and Keep us posted on what you decide to do .
Rgds
Jeff
JR :eek:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blu Wrote :
My temp holds around 190-195 Degs all day in 80+ deg weather with hard highway driving.( i think the custom tuning from MMS helped in this area..Turning the fans on and off etc...) . If i throw the AC in hot wheather the temp gets up around 215 degs ( not to high but i would like to see it lower ) ...So i am probably going to have Andy at A&A work some of his custom cooling magic and have the rad positoning lower and the stock fans re-installed.. Not a mandatory mod, but since i plan on doing a lot of desert driving in the Hot summer months it would be a good idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Also how did you deal with the weight of the tubes hanging below the front clip?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blu Wrote :
Its actually very easy to raise the large plumbing , all you have to do is cut away some of the plastic that restricts you from turning /raising the tubes...I can take a few pics and email them to you explaining in more detail. A picture is worth a thousand words :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I run a Be-Cool radiator and I am being told that the ATI system will significantly restrict the air flow through the radiator.
>>>>>>>>>>
Blu wrote :
Its rediculous just how much the ATI set up restricts the airflow, if you take a look at the ATI fans they litterily block off about a 1/3 of the air flow to your rad..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am also being told that the ATI system air tubes/intercoolers cause the front clip to sag to the point that they must be covered up (at the bottom) or some how supported so they don't hang down?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Blu Wrote :
I have not had any problem with this..With a little work you can have all the plumbing flush with the cross member or even higher.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the idea of being able to change a belt on the ATI Pro-Charger without removing the whole unit! I also heard the injectors supplied with the kit are to small - did you find that true?
>>>
Blu Wrote :
I ordered the D1-SC , and MMS installed 46 Lbs injectors ..MMS also had to install a custom fuel management system to handle the tremendous fuel supply ..This will be key if you go with an aggressive Cam and are pushing 550 + RWHP.
:cheers:
Good Luck and Keep us posted on what you decide to do .
Rgds
Jeff
JR :eek:
10-09-2002, 11:00 AM
#20
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Re: Help which blower Magnicharger, Vortec, ATI or NOT? (JR-CRUZN-C5)
I have ATI Prochargers in stock that have the modified idler pulley setup in stock. I mill the back of the blower to make sure the idlers are parallel andrelocate the idler to get more wrap on the blower pulley. You won't have belt problems with these. :cheers: