409 YSI..may switch to Turbo...what to expect?
08-26-2015, 03:08 PM
#21
Tech Contributor
The complaint that the OP shared with me privately is that he goes down to sea level, makes good power and boost. Goes up and the mountains and car loses a lot of boost and power. Turbos can solve that problem.
Dollar/horsepower, there's no beating a good centri kit.
As for the turbo cars not doing well at the track, there are a few that were well done that kill it at the track and in roll and 1/2mi racing and more coming soon. It's simply not as popular a power adder due to many things including cost, complication, small/restrictive housings, need for scavenge pumps, etc. There's a cure out there that's going to cure everything but the cost factor one day in the not-so-distant future.
Dollar/horsepower, there's no beating a good centri kit.
As for the turbo cars not doing well at the track, there are a few that were well done that kill it at the track and in roll and 1/2mi racing and more coming soon. It's simply not as popular a power adder due to many things including cost, complication, small/restrictive housings, need for scavenge pumps, etc. There's a cure out there that's going to cure everything but the cost factor one day in the not-so-distant future.
08-26-2015, 03:38 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
The complaint that the OP shared with me privately is that he goes down to sea level, makes good power and boost. Goes up and the mountains and car loses a lot of boost and power. Turbos can solve that problem.
Dollar/horsepower, there's no beating a good centri kit.
As for the turbo cars not doing well at the track, there are a few that were well done that kill it at the track and in roll and 1/2mi racing and more coming soon. It's simply not as popular a power adder due to many things including cost, complication, small/restrictive housings, need for scavenge pumps, etc. There's a cure out there that's going to cure everything but the cost factor one day in the not-so-distant future.
Dollar/horsepower, there's no beating a good centri kit.
As for the turbo cars not doing well at the track, there are a few that were well done that kill it at the track and in roll and 1/2mi racing and more coming soon. It's simply not as popular a power adder due to many things including cost, complication, small/restrictive housings, need for scavenge pumps, etc. There's a cure out there that's going to cure everything but the cost factor one day in the not-so-distant future.
interested. How not-so-distant future we talking about Brett? LTE of interest in the kit, man, I love this stuff !
08-26-2015, 04:31 PM
#23
Tech Contributor
Too early to tell. Design is done. Getting to production with it is a huge undertaking. Part of the production is already squared away, but more remains for other parts.
08-26-2015, 04:57 PM
#24
Heel & Toe
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I have an AWD Silverado but I went from a D1 procharger on 22 psi to a s480 96mm turbo on 18psi and I gained probably 200hp. With that said the turbo has been a crap ton of work and is still work in progress. The supercharger was nice and easy to set up almost retard proof, I got tired of shredding belts thou. My belts would last a couple weeks max. Those of you saying turbos don't hit hard and superchargers hit harder are idiots. I can foot brake my turbo from a dig to 12 psi on a 3k stall (higher if I wanted) and take off like a raped ape keep in mind this is a 96mm turbo with a 1.32 ar. With the same stall I was lucky to see 1 psi on the supercharger . From a roll forget about it I can brake boost as much boost as I want. Probably the best thing about it is the in between shifts I might drop 2 psi max where with the supercharger you drop allot since it's rpm base. Turbos need to be set up right to perform correctly they take allot more work and something will go wrong . Sometimes I miss the supercharger set up because of how simple it was. So if you like working on your car go turbo if not stay supercharger and that being as honest as I can.
08-27-2015, 07:06 AM
#25
Melting Slicks
Those of you saying turbos don't hit hard and superchargers hit harder are idiots. I can foot brake my turbo from a dig to 12 psi on a 3k stall (higher if I wanted) and take off like a raped ape keep in mind this is a 96mm turbo with a 1.32 ar. With the same stall I was lucky to see 1 psi on the supercharger . From a roll forget about it I can brake boost as much boost as I want. Probably the best thing about it is the in between shifts I might drop 2 psi max where with the supercharger you drop allot since it's rpm base.
You've stated you need to foot brake to build boost, and if you're comparing boost on two totally different levels, it's just silly. Of course if the turbo setup is designed to give a higher boost across a wider rpm range, it will do that once there is enough load to produce that boost.
Why would you have an expectation of the centri car to do that, when you know it wont ?
Of course a turbo has an ability to make different amounts of boost at different times, once normal boost threshold has been reached.
But if you're simply driving along and nail the throttle, the supercharger always offers more response, it will hit harder.. NO turbo will match that.
If you're racing in an environment or having fun on the street where you're off/on the throttle, the SC always responds faster and hits harder.
Now it is idiotic to suggest the SC at say 10 psi will hit harder than a turbo once it makes say a higher boost level than the SC car, those two are not comparable by any stretch. But like for like, nail the throttle and the SC car will hit harder immediately after opening the throttle
Now if you're talking 0.5s, 1s, 1.5s later then of course the turbos will be a different story once working boost has been achieved.
There are pros and cons to each, but dont try to ignore the facts or realities.
08-27-2015, 08:43 PM
#26
Stevie you have have officially gone full retard, I wonder if you really own a turbo car like you say you do.
Now you are saying that a supercharged car is still going to take the hit on a brake boosted turbo car? Think about what you are saying...on the turbo car the boost is already built, as soon as you let off the throttle its gone! With a supercharger you have to wait for the BOV to close and even then you still aren't at maximum boost (unless you have a positive displacement blower), by the time all that comes together the turbo car is gone.
Check out the rolling antilag they have for GTRs...its going to be a game changer
Now you are saying that a supercharged car is still going to take the hit on a brake boosted turbo car? Think about what you are saying...on the turbo car the boost is already built, as soon as you let off the throttle its gone! With a supercharger you have to wait for the BOV to close and even then you still aren't at maximum boost (unless you have a positive displacement blower), by the time all that comes together the turbo car is gone.
Check out the rolling antilag they have for GTRs...its going to be a game changer
08-27-2015, 10:15 PM
#27
Heel & Toe
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I just think stevie has never street raced, only way l see a a centrifugal blower getting a hit is with a ricer fly by maybe that's what he's talking about. When ever I have raced it's on the third honk and you can defiantly get a foot boost in on that.
08-28-2015, 01:44 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
Clearly you're both struggling with some very basic concepts.....and reading English it seems.
One is the simple fact you're repeatedly saying the turbo car needs brake boosted to be effective...which the SC car does not.
You do realise most turbo cars have BOV's too ? And not only must this be closed, but you also need enough drive energy into the turbine in order for the turbo to be able to generate any boost ?
Again, the SC does not need this, the BOV will close within milliseconds of opening the throttle, and boost recovery is almost instant.
That is simply not the case with a turbo car...unless as you keep adding you employ some sort of additional means of building boost in readiness for actually wanting to accelerate.
But that's almost like comparing being ready to race with one car at 5000rpm, the other at 2000rpm. It's just silly.
Like for like, two cars side by side one blower, one turbo, if both open the throttle at the same time, the supercharged car will respond faster. That isnt to say after a short period the turbo car if it makes more power may not catch up and pass, but the turbo car will not have the same initial hit after opening the throttle.
As for the rolling antilag, it isnt new, it's been around for some 3 years now.
Does a SC car need that ? Nope.
Does either of your cars have rolling antilag available as they stand ? Nope.
As said, there are good points to each setup, it's up to each user what they want and what they can make use of for each application. Neither are bad setups, but certainly you do have more flexibility with the turbos.
But if instant throttle response is what you want, the turbos will not match the supercharged car.
One is the simple fact you're repeatedly saying the turbo car needs brake boosted to be effective...which the SC car does not.
You do realise most turbo cars have BOV's too ? And not only must this be closed, but you also need enough drive energy into the turbine in order for the turbo to be able to generate any boost ?
Again, the SC does not need this, the BOV will close within milliseconds of opening the throttle, and boost recovery is almost instant.
That is simply not the case with a turbo car...unless as you keep adding you employ some sort of additional means of building boost in readiness for actually wanting to accelerate.
But that's almost like comparing being ready to race with one car at 5000rpm, the other at 2000rpm. It's just silly.
Like for like, two cars side by side one blower, one turbo, if both open the throttle at the same time, the supercharged car will respond faster. That isnt to say after a short period the turbo car if it makes more power may not catch up and pass, but the turbo car will not have the same initial hit after opening the throttle.
As for the rolling antilag, it isnt new, it's been around for some 3 years now.
Does a SC car need that ? Nope.
Does either of your cars have rolling antilag available as they stand ? Nope.
As said, there are good points to each setup, it's up to each user what they want and what they can make use of for each application. Neither are bad setups, but certainly you do have more flexibility with the turbos.
But if instant throttle response is what you want, the turbos will not match the supercharged car.
08-28-2015, 02:56 AM
#29
Heel & Toe
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Clearly you're both struggling with some very basic concepts.....and reading English it seems.
No your just a retard.
One is the simple fact you're repeatedly saying the turbo car needs brake boosted to be effective...which the SC car does not.
You do realise most turbo cars have BOV's too ? And not only must this be closed, but you also need enough drive energy into the turbine in order for the turbo to be able to generate any boost ? Yes the BOV closes just as fast on a turbo car as a supercharger car they are spring assisted and close as soon as you open the throttle body or go to atmosphere pressure in the manifold
Again, the SC does not need this, the BOV will close within milliseconds of opening the throttle, and boost recovery is almost instant.
That is simply not the case with a turbo car...unless as you keep adding you employ some sort of additional means of building boost in readiness for actually wanting to accelerate.
But that's almost like comparing being ready to race with one car at 5000rpm, the other at 2000rpm. It's just silly. It's not silly it's what a turbo can do and what a supercharger can't do
Like for like, two cars side by side one blower, one turbo, if both open the throttle at the same time, the supercharged car will respond faster. That isnt to say after a short period the turbo car if it makes more power may not catch up and pass, but the turbo car will not have the same initial hit after opening the throttle. Nobody with a turbo starts a race off the gas all your doing is trying to even the playing field for the supercharger. I went from super charger to turbo , the turbo launches harder hits harder and never drops off or runs out of steam.
As for the rolling antilag, it isnt new, it's been around for some 3 years now.
Does a SC car need that ? Nope. It's not that it doesn't need it , it can't use it...lol
Does either of your cars have rolling antilag available as they stand ? Nope. You know nothing about my truck thank you
As said, there are good points to each setup, it's up to each user what they want and what they can make use of for each application. Neither are bad setups, but certainly you do have more flexibility with the turbos.
But if instant throttle response is what you want, the turbos will not match the supercharged car.
No your just a retard.
One is the simple fact you're repeatedly saying the turbo car needs brake boosted to be effective...which the SC car does not.
You do realise most turbo cars have BOV's too ? And not only must this be closed, but you also need enough drive energy into the turbine in order for the turbo to be able to generate any boost ? Yes the BOV closes just as fast on a turbo car as a supercharger car they are spring assisted and close as soon as you open the throttle body or go to atmosphere pressure in the manifold
Again, the SC does not need this, the BOV will close within milliseconds of opening the throttle, and boost recovery is almost instant.
That is simply not the case with a turbo car...unless as you keep adding you employ some sort of additional means of building boost in readiness for actually wanting to accelerate.
But that's almost like comparing being ready to race with one car at 5000rpm, the other at 2000rpm. It's just silly. It's not silly it's what a turbo can do and what a supercharger can't do
Like for like, two cars side by side one blower, one turbo, if both open the throttle at the same time, the supercharged car will respond faster. That isnt to say after a short period the turbo car if it makes more power may not catch up and pass, but the turbo car will not have the same initial hit after opening the throttle. Nobody with a turbo starts a race off the gas all your doing is trying to even the playing field for the supercharger. I went from super charger to turbo , the turbo launches harder hits harder and never drops off or runs out of steam.
As for the rolling antilag, it isnt new, it's been around for some 3 years now.
Does a SC car need that ? Nope. It's not that it doesn't need it , it can't use it...lol
Does either of your cars have rolling antilag available as they stand ? Nope. You know nothing about my truck thank you
As said, there are good points to each setup, it's up to each user what they want and what they can make use of for each application. Neither are bad setups, but certainly you do have more flexibility with the turbos.
But if instant throttle response is what you want, the turbos will not match the supercharged car.
08-28-2015, 03:58 AM
#30
Melting Slicks
Maybe someday you will grow up and learn how silly you are...or maybe not. Some do get through life being clueless, but there is no point me trying to drop down to your level.
Last edited by stevieturbo; 08-28-2015 at 06:10 AM.
08-28-2015, 08:23 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
The power escalation of a turbo car when spooling is much more aggressive than a centri car. But... when you floor a centri car its making boost right away where as a turbo there is lag. Of course there is ways around this. Say your in second gear pacing someone. No brake boosting or 2 step. When you hit WOT the centri will be making boost right away where the turbo has to spool. This is all stevie is trying to say. I think....
08-28-2015, 08:53 AM
#32
Tech Contributor
Stevie you have have officially gone full retard, I wonder if you really own a turbo car like you say you do.
Now you are saying that a supercharged car is still going to take the hit on a brake boosted turbo car? Think about what you are saying...on the turbo car the boost is already built, as soon as you let off the throttle its gone! With a supercharger you have to wait for the BOV to close and even then you still aren't at maximum boost (unless you have a positive displacement blower), by the time all that comes together the turbo car is gone.
Check out the rolling antilag they have for GTRs...its going to be a game changer
Now you are saying that a supercharged car is still going to take the hit on a brake boosted turbo car? Think about what you are saying...on the turbo car the boost is already built, as soon as you let off the throttle its gone! With a supercharger you have to wait for the BOV to close and even then you still aren't at maximum boost (unless you have a positive displacement blower), by the time all that comes together the turbo car is gone.
Check out the rolling antilag they have for GTRs...its going to be a game changer
Rolling antilag isn't exclusive to GTR's, but I'm sure you're aware of that. The Haltech Elite on my car is equipped for it as well. I'll be excited to check it out once it's done.
For the record, Stevieturbo has a YSi.
08-28-2015, 09:02 AM
#33
Melting Slicks
You're not repeating what he said at all. He is talking about simply stabbing the throttle without being duly prepared and allowed time to place your foot on the brake or engaging any electronics. Just nailing the throttle and at that instant (not .5,1,2 or 3 seconds later) the supercharged car will be making boost and moving sooner, regardless of what happens an instant later.
Rolling antilag isn't exclusive to GTR's, but I'm sure you're aware of that. The Haltech Elite on my car is equipped for it as well. I'll be excited to check it out once it's done.
For the record, Stevieturbo used to have a YSi.
Rolling antilag isn't exclusive to GTR's, but I'm sure you're aware of that. The Haltech Elite on my car is equipped for it as well. I'll be excited to check it out once it's done.
For the record, Stevieturbo used to have a YSi.