Rkreigh

like to start planning out and getting feedback on something I want to try. using the halltech ecm and running 8 primary and 8 secondary injectors. running pump gas on the primaries and either race gas or maybe even e85 on the secondaries.

goals are to increase the fuel flow without a humugous fuel system. I'd use my existing meth tank with a dedicated pump. hoping the halltech can bring the other pump and injectors online seamlessly as the engine hits around 3 psi (through the MAP sensor)

also like to hear more about experience with the halltech boost by speed control

and lastly, I know I'd need to fabricate an alum manifold to run the dual injectors. hogans is the only shop I really know but I'll do some searches. I've seen these types of intakes and the secondary injectors could easily be "stacked" up higher in the intake to help with atomization and cooling. I know some of the guys doing this actually claim the car runs better with the injectors mounted a bit more from the port under high boost

last part of the "build" I need to get paddle shifters on the car to control it better. I rode around in a 2013 grand sport and was very impressed with the improvements and shift speed/control over the tranny. it was and the shifts were very positive

even a simple "rachet shifter" might be a big improvement over what I have now. biggest complaint is the "mileage biased" shifting at low throttle settings the car shifts into a gear and lugs the motor along at 1300 rpms. when I give it some gas, it downshifts and all hell breaks lose. like to just keep the rpms above 2k and I'd be happier. I'm sure some of this can be "programmed" does the halltech support that too?? need to sell some hot rods to afford all this.

I have up for sale

71 Trans Am,
87 Turbo Buick (10 sec car)
982 Drag vette (9.20s)

they are all posted on ls1 tech (c3 drag car is here too)

thanks for any help with this. I'll be talking this over with Doug at Carlilse and report back!!
this might seem a bit crazee

DOUG @ ECS

You can do everything your looking to do with the Haltech, and if your "crazy", then crazy minds think alike...
The boost by gear works great, the boost by time works great, and the boost by MPH works great, pick your poison.
We will have a manufacturer rep from Haltech in our booth at Carlisle so write down any questions you have and feel free to ask away!

MVP'S ZO6

Doug, how many car's have y'all installed the halltech in now?

Are y'all just doing them in race cars or guys with race cars that drive on the street too?

mobius

I have a street vette with haltech. Works awesome and there are some minor things I noticed once it was installed that was nice. Car is smoother the trailer hitching effect when driving around is much reduced. The back of my car is not covered In Soot anymore are the biggest ones. It's a very nice setup and boost by gear works great. Tuning on the fly is awesome as well, software is pretty good and easy to use. I like much better than hp tuners.

DOUG @ ECS

I don't how many, but more then a few.

Only a few of the cars we build are strip only, we generally stay away from that, so most are street/strip cars.

EGash

No problem here. Haltech does staged injection regularly on the high power Methanol powered engines. There are a few different ways to do it, depending on your exact requirements.


If your secondary fuel pump will be fueling form a separate tank, conceptually similar to the standalone fuel systems that the nitrous guys use, then it would be advisable to activate the secondary pump in advance of the secondary injectors, so as to build pressure before the secondary injectors open. This is easy to setup though.

I've had years of experience with the Haltech Boost control strategies, but my opinion is admittedly biased :-)


What about an Edlebrock or GM aluminum EFI Style manifold, which will have 8 injector ports already. Then you can buy weldable Aluminum injector bungs. After a bit of fitting and welding and you'll have a 16 injector manifold!

Ratchet shifter Perhaps the shifting patterns can be reprogrammed in the OEM PCM? I'll defer this to Doug or someone else that has more experience than me with trans programming.

Awesome, see you there!

BTW, Halltech makes Air Intakes for corvettes; Haltech are the ECU guys.

Rkreigh

exciting stuff. need to sell some hot rods to afford all this, but it certainly looks like it will work well. can you PM me some "ball park" pricing for the halltech with installation. need to sell off a bunch of toys and I'm in!

I need to keep the intake up under the hood as I have a nice halltech (two LLs this time, sorry for that) carbon fiber stinger hood which is part of the "look" of the twin turbo tiger I'll look at some intake options. I have a big intake pipe (will need to change likely) and throttle body already and I'm fairly happy with the engine, but might just move the "primary" injectors I have now over to the secondaries and run a nice linear "50 lb or so" primary. that would give me 120 lbs total which should be plenty for race gas and likely enough for e85 too if needed. looking for very nice street manners with full control over the fuel and timing curve along with boost by speed as I think that will work best with the automatic on the street.

not an experienced tuner but I'm very excited about the possibilities here. might be able to move the ECS/Alchy control setup over to my old turbo buick to help it sell. I was going to try this with a megasquirt but an integrated ecu and the halltech would be MUCH less hassle and give me more control and flexibility.

thanks very much for the tips!

a few more questions for the shopping list

does the haltech ecu have tranny control and programming built in? if not, I'll need to add a standalone tranny controller to the budget. need to fine tune the shifting, especially at light throttle and also be able to "lock it up early" at the track to get a better mph. I've got a nice multi disk 3200 stall rodney put in the car which should handle about 800 ft lbs which is what the car is currently tuned to make at 17.5 psi.

anyone got any tips on a good "rachet shifter" it's low tech, but would probably do just fine as the paddles look like an expensive hassle and honestly if I can program the tranny, I can probably do everything I want going that route.

I also need to be able to "plug in" and pass the OBD II emissions check, but I seem to remember that working ok. if not that could be a show stopper.

VA is kinda strict about that, but where there's a will there's a way

the dual fuel strategy with a "standalone" tank and pump would really help me out. you spend very little time at "full boogie" boost and I don't mind filling it up ever now and then. I'll need a "warning light" on the fuel level just to make sure I don't run dry but that should be ez enough to figure out.

my man doug is a pretty talented fellow and I'm lucky he's in my back yard (east coast)

doug, any trains near you? I'd drive her up and either rent a car or train back. c u in Carlisle!!! can't wait.

DOUG @ ECS

You can have your trans controller and pass inspection too, lets talk about this at Carlisle since your going because it would be a lot to type!

We can work a show special price too for you.

DOUG @ ECS

One idea I have been toying with if I do not go into a rule sanctioned class like Real street, is to have one fuel tank with pump gas for anything under 5-10 lbs of boost, then the other fuel tank filled with methanol on a separate-but complete- fuel system.
Two sets of injectors, so 16 total, then when you drive around town your on pump gas, but once your at WOT your a full methanol powered vehicle. Drop out of heavy boost and your a pump gas car again.

The Haltech can make that happen seamlessly... Muuuhhhhaaaaa...

Just be creative and the skies the limit within reason.

Rkreigh

to quote monty burns - eeeexxxxxcellent

just what I'm looking for save your fingers for the tuning, we'll talk (that's better anyway, looking forward to seeing you guys)

I'll be bringing the LSV LPE ZR-1, but the C5 TTiX TT will be waiting patiently at home. sure hope I can afford to do this!

I would likely buy the system, and wait until later in the year for the install until the vettes winter nap

how about a "lay away" plan at the Carlisle show for ur old buddies!

this is just too schweeet!

thanks for your patience and indulging me on this build.

lets do this thang!

Rkreigh

looking for options on an intake that will work well with turbos and allow 16 injectors (stacked)

is it possible to modify the stock intake? I know its a nylon composite plastic but can it be plastic welded?

I need to make sure it will fit under the hood. I've got a rare CF halltech stinger hood that I want to keep.

might consider an old "stinger style" C3 BB 427 hood scoop for the center if I need more clearance but I think it might make the car look too busy.

like to hear experience with a good fabricated intake too. Hogans and others please.

the intake will likely "blow my budget" for this project but it's dual fuel or bust on this build!!

can't wait for carlisle to see you guys and mull this over

muaahhh ha ha (dr evil)

boostamuv!

Rkreigh

the vic Jr looks pretty good and could have another set of injectors plumbed in. I'd need a relatively low profile elbow built to keep it under the hood.

also wondering about just running a few really BIG injectors plumbed into the up pipe (kind like the callaway turbo cars did)

I'm only looking to make a safe 850 at the tire (at 800 now)

that would allow me to keep the ls6 intake

thanks for any advice!

stevieturbo

Modern intakes are designed for smooth and even airflow. I would not recommend adding fuel to that mix by placing injectors before the throttle.
It's fine injecting in the port though.

The carb intakes can be modified quite easily for dual injectors, I run mine like that. Although as a non-vette, have no real height problems as far as the elbow goes.

If you're only looking to make 850, building another fuel system, methanol etc etc...does seem a bit OTT when you could meet those goals on pump + meth. Or even pump alone.

mobius

Def no need at 850...

Rkreigh

looking to get experience with this setup before turning up the wick a bit more. I believe 850 is about the limit of the current RPM LVL 5 auto.

biggest advantage to me is being able to do boost by speed, wideband fuel corrections, dual fuel, tranny programming, and safegaurds all in the same box.

I need to go to the champions 3" downpipes, and I have some .82 AR housings to step it up and maybe go to 1000 at the tire, but the drivetrain will need to be beefed first.

thanks for the tips on the factory manifold. the vic jr is looking like the most affordable alternative. any advice on a good low profile elbow

also, could the factory intake be modified for another set of injectors? I'm thinking not likely.

stevieturbo

I'm sure there is some way to modify the plastic intake for 2 inj, how reliable it might be is another matter.

But for your power goals stated, you do not need to run 2 inj per cylinder.

Rkreigh

not a need, it's a want. like I said, I'm interested in getting experience with dual fuel and I don't feel comfortable running 850 rwhp on pump gas.

I'm at 8.5 CR, but I still don't think I can stay out of detonation without the meth. the alchy control kit works well, but controlling it with injectors and a wideband makes more sense to me.

later on, if I want, I can turn up the wick to 1100 hp and have enough injector, pump, and control to do it.

the boost by speed is a need also. make sense??

so how many folks have a Vic Jr under the stock hood? the low profile elbow concerns me a bit getting good airflow and distribution, but under boost it's probably still going to work without being too restrictive. I have some ideas on how to smooth the airflow without raising the profile.

fitting under the hood is a hard requirement for me.

stevieturbo

OK. A lot depends on what you mean by dual fuel.

You are talking about two completely separate and independent fuel systems. Which is certainly one way to do it. But this will require two sets of lines, pumps, wiring, etc etc. Very messy and complicated.

But the other is, if you have E85 available to you, all you need to do is build a single fuel system with enough flow capacity for your desired power level on E85. Then a flex fuel sensor will allow you to run any amount of pump or E85 and all tuning will be taken care of ( after you have tuned it for both fuels of course )

This would certainly be the cheapest and easiest option, and again would only require a single injector per cylinder.
Or if E85 is not an option, you can add methanol to the fuel up to around 20% and this will allow good gains too and is a very cheap boost to performance.
Again there are flex fuel sensors that will read this change and allow the ecu to make tuning changes to accommodate.

As for intakes, I think the Edelbrock elbows are the lowest profile, and they have a divider to try and smooth flow.

Or you could just go for a full custom sheet metal intake which would have a low profile and allow dual injectors.

As for boost by speed, yes that would be worth having. Certainly I have never suggested you do not use the Haltech.
I'm just saying the notion of two completely independent fuel systems and injectors is quite extreme, expensive and really not needed.

But obviously if you want this, then just make it happen. It isnt hard to do, it will just be expensive.

Rkreigh

the expensive part is what worries me. here's the thought, get a holley ls6 style intake (alum) it will heat soak I know, but it can be welded and tap in the other injectors and remain low profile

I already have a big alum tank in the back for alchy (3 gal or so) which I will use for E85 or pure meth

primary system will remain pump gas. this allows a few things

running a small primary injector for good idle characteristics, using either race gas, e85 or meth with a flexible tune depending on what works best for high hp

adding pump capacity without ripping out what I already have

as you mentioned, definitely more complex, and expensive. and of course not really needed.

might just be better to go with e85 and be done with it, but I'll need to go much bigger on the pumps and injectors (not a problem)

just weighing different options at this point. the feedback is very appreciated!

thanks

DOUG @ ECS

Just an FYI, the Haltech has a flex fuel sensor option.