JustinStrife

I talked to England Green about this last year when I bought my FRC. I ran 100% meth in my last vette, and the previous owner of the FRC ran 50/50. England Green told me, run 100% meth, or none at all. So I went with his opinion.

dizwiz24

Do you mean 50% meth?

Isnt windshield washer 50% methanol / 50% water (and some blue dye)

user_name

You have to take into account how much meth and how much water you are injecting rather than the mixture. 50/50 will give you superior protection against detonation than 100% meth assuming you are running 2x the amount of fluid. Meth cools the IAT's, and water cools down combustion temps. The theoretical octane level of water is infinite because it does not burn.

I ran 50/50 with the single nozzle that my Alky Control kit came with for a long time at 700rwhp or a little under. It seemed like I couldn't make it knock on the dyno. 18* timing or more even at peak tq. Power would not go up, but there was no knock. I'd do it that way again.

I ended up going to 100% meth when I added more boost b/c I needed the octane with a CR of 10.5:1 and 19psi. With a 1.5 gallon tank it would have been too much of a hassle to keep refilling it if I had gone with 50/50 and needed 3 nozzles just to get enough meth and water in there.

I'd go against what most say on here and stick with 50/50 on the more mild setups that could run their boost level on straight pump gas safely if they really wanted to.

MJD

You live in OH, convert to E85 and don't waste your time with meth.

Robert 2000

I run boost juice from snow with a snow meth kit and I have no complaints

liveaboard74

30%.. sorry,, NY traffic was hell today.
Had a slight brain back fire... LOL

Here's ya a really good read by snow meth...
They actually like the 49/51%...


http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs_...?type=gasoline

jetmech09

100 % Meth at 10 psi..

Turbo-Geist

100% meth at 18 psi. It actually does a good job of cooling. I made a few passes this weekend at the dragstrip and logged a couple of them.

On the starting line, my IAT temps were 122 degrees. The IAT's dropped to 100 degrees over the course of the 1/4 mile pass. That's a delta of -22 degrees in addition to the octane boost.

Julio

Has to do with the flash temp.

Meth is 70 df
Water is 180 df
50/50 is 125 df

If you shoot a liquid into the pipe and you dont have enough temp to flash the liquid, it wont distribute properly. Once it doesnt distribute properly you get cylinders to not get any methanol/water and whalla.. kaboom.

Every PSI is 11df. 6 psi is 66 df+ambient. 80 outside +66=146. Great if its not intercooled. Problem with 50/50 is when it gets cold outside.. 35 degree fall night.. cold intercooler.. thats when distribution problems surface and whalla.

Alcohol will drop temp in chamber. Same way it does when using E85 for example. It will also cool the air. Provides a clean fuel source. Etc.

The only drawback to methanol 100% is its harder on the pump seals. Using 50/50 the pump will last twice as long(seal wise) but the small savings compared to cost of engine damage/service is a no brainer. Lets say every 2 years you replaced a pump. Pumps are 150 bucks. Thats 75 per year. 6.25 per month. 1.75 per week to feed high octane fuel into your motor. Rebuilds on pumps are typically 80. Half that number.

So what are you saving.. not much. Methanol in bulk is 1.35 per gallon. 40 per 5 gallon pail of VP M1.

High boost, high temperature apps.. 50/50 can work. Yet I have never seen anyone tune on 50/50 then tune on 100% and go back.

Remember that flash temp.. see this is why 100% keeps a stable tuneup year round.

Hope this helps. Understand i'm not saying 50/50 doesnt work.. just saying watchout when it gets cold outside and your on it "AND" needing it.

95redz

Very interesting information here. This has me concerned with my set up now. I am NOT a stock LS motor, but for conversation sake I think this could be useful.

- I run 50/50 on a snow kit (dual nozzle), set up progressively as per the control module
- I see as much as 21 psi WOT
- I have a HUGE fuel pump and injectors so needing the meth for extra octane wasn't needed (IDS 1000 + eliminator)
- we tuned without meth and there was 0 knock at 12* timing and made the exact same power as it does now with full spray of 50/50, except IATs dropped HUGE and I assume so did combustion temps.
- IATs are in the low 80s high 70s if I recall correctly, but it may have actually been lower (I recall 30* but that could have been C not F)

I drive the car in 60* weather up to our peak of 95* weather, and haven't had any issues yet.

I didn't want to run 100% meth because I am very aware of its nature to burn and ability to evaporate quickly from the stock washer tank (which I use) so I just avoided it.

Would I be better off converting to 100% meth?? (Just to clear things up, I don't want more power) On this soft tune we touched 800 rwhp on a Mustang Dyno (which is 880 on a local dyno-jet) using 94 octane 10% ethanol fuel and the 50/50 spray of course.

Julio

Couple of things to note.

Brake fluid, power steering fluid, freon, engine oil, gasoline, transmission oil, fiberglass, etc.. have a nature to burn as well when exposed to fire.

Evaporation.. non-issue. Water evaporates as well.

Your fuel system has nothing to do with octane. It just has the capability of flowing a specific liquid. Octane is a whole other matter. Its great that you have a capable fuel system, but that doesnt mean you can put 87 octane and crank timing to 22 degree's.

Back to your combo.. whats probably saving you is the very low timing your running. 12 degree's is low timing. While it allows you to get away with some extra boost, it also spikes up EGT's. The lower the timing the higher the egt. Simple. Most LS motors favor timing in the 16-22 degree range. But octane is required once you start throwing boost at that timing level. As your giving up an easy 100 rwhp at 12 degree's vs lets say 16-18 degree's. But at the higher timing level then you become dependant on the system. When that happens you get that nice coool night... problems will then happen on the 50/50.

If your comfortable at your power level and the way the car runs.. leave it alone. If your looking for more.. there is a lot left on the table.. the big question of whether 50/50 will get you there.. only tuning will show. If you decide to try a higher concentration of methanol.. be sure the system is setup for it. I'll leave it at that.

Hope this helps.

Julio

95redz

Thanks for the info. I worded it wrong when I said additional octane from meth; what I meant was fuel source. I've seen many people run on the edge of their fuel systems only to run 100% meth for the extra fuel to 'get there'.

Last year we ran 17.5 psi and 23* timing with this exact same 50/50 system, however only on a single nozzle. The car ran great and actually made very similar torque to what it does not (obviously more btq with more timing).

I'm not sure if there is an additional 100 hp on the table with this F1A, but perhaps 50-60 on pump with more timing. In my case running the water will only help keep EGTs lower since we are only running 12* timing. I used a very reputable tuner out here in Edmonton and he was happy with the tune even with using 50/50 so I am confident things will last.

Thanks again for the insight.

FastGhost

This is what I have and it works well. I mix my own 50/50 but I will be going to Boost Juice...

2003VETT

100% meth. 15 LBS. 1500 passes.

StatmanRN

Talking with Julio convinced me to go with 100%. One point is that the LS manifold wont distribute water well, whhile the meth flashes off inststantly and provides a better intercooling effect.
I also worried about the fire hazard. Using the WW tank with no leak problems.

Ronnie_W

What does everyone set the gain **** to? I have the dual nozzle Julio setup and have the **** setting all the way up. I don't know if that is correct or not. I am tuning myself and don't see any problems. I started with 50/50 and am gradually working towards 100 pct.

skydiven4fun

I'm new to the boost club, I also trust my tuner and go with their recommendation I'm using 100% meth with alky kit single nozzle with A&A Si kit at 10.6 boost making 631 rwhp and 532 torque stock bottom LS1 Stock heads with Mayhem 2 cam kit and various other performance parts. I also don't bounce my car off the rev limiter everytime I get behind the wheel.
Just when the road is long and straight.

0EG@EnglandGreen

Julio's Alky Control 100% methanol system only for us. We tune very conservatively and use methanol primarily as a safety measure.

Stephen

Julio

You want the **** high enough to not set off the knock sensor. Yet dont put in so much to oversaturate the air. More is not better as it makes the tuneup more dependent on the system.

Its like this. You run a single nozzle kit.. once your cranked wide open on the **** on a single you go to a twin. And go from there.. if you have to crank the **** to 8.. you really need 3 nozzles.

My 348 on 93 octane and a 4788 turbo makes easy 1100 rwhp and my **** is at 6.5 on twin 15's.

HTH.. who resurrected last years thread

Ronnie_W

Thanks for the response but I'm still a little unsure where to set the ****. I can turn the timing down far enough to not use the meth or I can crank the meth up and throw a bunch of timing at it. Or I can put it midway and be more conservative on the timing. I'm sure there is a correct way to get a good balance. Should I tune without meth to where I just get KR and then turn the meth up far enough to eliminate it. I'm sure it all depends on how dependent you want to be on the meth or how safe you want to run. I am running a TT forged 347 at 15 lbs of boost and am running 18.5 deg of timing right now with the **** turned all the way up using dual nozzles (what ever size that came with your kit). I'm sure this is too much of both timing and meth to be safe. Just tuning short burst of WOT right now.