Chevy-SS

It seems to me that a powerful electric motor and fan could be incorporated into the air intake housing. Maybe make the housing a little bigger to accommodate the electric motor.

There are some amazingly powerful (and small) electric motors out there nowadays, so would this work?

Even if you could only get a few pounds of boost, so what? The installation would be super-easy and the cost should be minimal. A small boost can provide impressive additional horsepower.

Plus, the compressor fan would only come on when you hit the go-pedal. A simple variable resistor could be wired directly into the throttle, or the fan motor could read the signal from the TPS (throttle positioning sensor).

Anyway, it seems like such a cheap and easy solution to add moderate boost. Am I crazy?

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Corvette-Chris

Probably LOL

JK man, but really, I dont see it being worthwhile.

exploder

madmatt9471

I would asume it would need to be progressive or are you wanting 2000 RPM and "BLAST" 12 PSI Electric blower all the way to 7000 RPM?


I would much rather do TT's but as they say anything is possible!

Thanks,Matt

Chevy-SS

LOL, u guys are cruel. But think about how much fan speed and pressure something like this 3HP mini-starter could produce with proper gearing.

Honestly, I can't believe no one is exploring this type of compressor more carefully. You could mount it virtually anywhere. The connections would be simple.

If you are one of those that buy into the Vararam concept, then this is more of the same.

I'm gonna email this idea to Vararam and see what they think.

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396375

[QUOTE=madmatt9471;1568278336]I would asume it would need to be progressive or are you wanting 2000 RPM and "BLAST" 12 PSI Electric blower all the way to 7000 RPM?


Ya.And you could add a BAP for more boost

Sorry Chevy-SS.I couldn't resist.

Skunkworks

Well no but performance improvements would be minimal... most superchargers consume 40+ hp (1 hp =746 watts) so that's 29,840 watts, now in amps (a = w / v) 2587 a or amps required at 12 v. That's way beyond what can reasonably be managed in a automotive electrical system...

All you could reasonably expect as far as gains is just a bit more then a good cold air induction system, or something on the order of a 20 hp gain.

Now I'm not sure if you are looking at something like electric ducted fans, which are rated in lbs/force or thrust which is different then boost which is usually PSI (lbs/in^2). The problem with fans is they flow allot of air with minimal pressure rise.

Oh, before I forget there are companies that are experimenting with electric assist turbos to reduce lag, but that is assist not run. Then there was/is a company that did try a supercharger but it can only be used in small burst and required additional batteries that added allot of weight. To my knowledge best power density is 125-140 watts/kg for batteries and that is the main reason we are not driving electric cars...


Mike

Z06PSI

You mean a fan like this one????

Chevy-SS

Mike,

thanks for the info. I am suggesting small amount of boost, nowhere near the amounts that a full-on SC or TC can accomplish. Short durations of heavy amperage draw could be taken up with a capacitor, couldn't they? I mean, let's face it - how long is anyone actually going at WOT (wide open throttle) on their street-driven cars?

Dave

Skunkworks

Dave,

If people don't think outside the box then we wouldn't have any innovation. Why don't you think about what mass flow and PSI you would be looking for, then I'll run some numbers and give power required in either watts of hp.

As far as capacitors yes there are some improvements but power density watts/kg or pound is lower then batteries, like 1/5, maybe better with ultra capacitors, but they have low operating voltages and have to be charge balanced. Oh and very expensive, you would likely be into it over $1000 (capacitors only) just to sustain a very short burst...

This is a complex subject but at the very least you would require a second alternator to handle charging... also it would be advisable to raise voltage to say 48 v to reduce current demand.

Also what technology you looking at, axial or centrifugal? If axial you will need some serious tip speeds (800+ ft/s) to get even a modest 1-2 psi of boost.


Mike

ONE BMF

Chevy-SS

If second alternator was required, then I would have to say - forget it. May as well add SC or TC at that point. For short bursts, I gotta believe a stock alternator would suffice. For sustained driving, then this idea might not be best.

Voltage could be played with, but the system would have to be simple and easy to install. Once it starts getting complex, then you may as well do SC or TC.

I emailed Vararam with the idea. I'll be interested to see if they've explored this at all. They are very quick to tout the natural SC effect (at speed) of their CAI.

Dave

NemesisC5

Dave, I like your your quest for innovation and have thought along the sames lines before, but the sobering facts of existing technology seem to push what sounds reasonable beyond application today. FWIW, I was reading a thread about Vararam yesterday in another section and someone chimed in that for the Vararam to actually compress air your car would have to be traveing at 300 mph whoaaa I'm not certain of the accuracy of that statement (Mike, what say you?), but it seems to relate back to a statement by Mike earlier in this thread "Now I'm not sure if you are looking at something like electric ducted fans, which are rated in lbs/force or thrust which is different then boost which is usually PSI (lbs/in^2). The problem with fans is they flow allot of air with minimal pressure rise."

IMHO and FTR, Vararam is a good design for supplying an abundance of cool outside air to help our engines run cooler and stronger (no chance of gulping any air heated by proximity of inlet to engine)

Merry Christmas

c3spdrcr20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyR0U_fYtwY

Skunkworks

Yes gains but that was a big leaf blower, lets just say 1 hp (it was likely much larger), so at 12 V that's 62 amps. Also the blower was feeding much smaller engines. In my previous post I said 20 HP... Also in video, was original or baseline done with filter attached or detached, that would also skew results.


Mike

Skunkworks

Yes you do compress with speed...



The SR 71 (picture above) used its jet engines only to get up to speed then it was bypassed via 5 butterfly valve and compressed air sent to afterburner or re-heat stage. The cone on engine inlet moved in and out to create desired pressure. It was a hybrid engine, when subsonic it was a jet engine, supersonic it was a ram jet, over simplified.

If you want to read up on ram jets refer to following http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramjet .

Don't have info handy but would be at least a few PSI (likely more) by 300 MPH using ram air compression.


Mike

NemesisC5

Thanks Mike

FWIW...I have always been an avid enthusiast of the SR 71's, to me they represented the pinnacle of high performance up until their retirement. If memory serves me correctly, due to use of construction materials by design they leaked fuel untill the fuselage was heated to operating temperature by air friction at high speeds...or something like that

Chevy-SS

Interesting vid on the leaf blower, thanks for posting that link. It seems there is substantial power to be gained, even with the small amount of actual boost that comes from something like a leaf blower. Granted, lots of variables and things to consider, but you gotta be impressed by the proven dyno results and the sheer simplicity of the experiment.

Drewstein

It was until it got up to altitude. The compression at how high it flew needed a place to go so they built in a few gaps for that reason.

PowerLabs

You're not crazy, just completely clueless when it comes to cars
A *small* supercharger like my Vortech is drawing 75horsepower at peak boost. 75HP = 55950Watts.
From your alternator, at 12Volts, that would amount to a current draw of 4700Amperes, and that is assuming a 100% efficient motor...
Now, a Corvette alternator is rated at 110Amps...
So, if you could get your engine to drive 42 alternators, you would then be able to drive an electric motor big enough to run a supercharger... There is a catch though... Have you ever seen a 75HP fan? I don't have a picture of one, but here is a 25HP one:

It is being hoised by a forklift because the motor alone weights 280LBS
You could probably overdrive 2 of those to run a Vortech and flow 1000CFM.

A small computer fan as you suggested would actually come apart in the intake stream and damage your engine.
Just to keep up with your engine's airflow requirements you would need an electric motor consuming several times what your alternator can provide...

I am all for thinking outside the box, but this is one of those ridiculous ideas you see on Ebay catching suckers, and it really doesn't belong in this forum...