3XBlack6spd

I am just curious. If one were to be looking into building a Top notch Turbo set up, on a stock cubed Forged motor, which kit is the way to go. Things that need to be considered in order of importance:

1) HP potential, and reliability?
2) Quality?
3) Cost?
4) Ease of tuning?

Please Let me know. Also I would really like to see some pictures of the TTi X kit.
If you have either one of these set ups, Please post your RWHP/TQ and 1/4 miles times, or at least as much of that info as you have!
Thanks.....This should be good...

JeremyMSG

From what I have read here and on other boards...

1) Very similar HP capabilities depending on final trim
2) Both are of very high quality
3) Within 10% or so of each other for the kit....no idea on install costs
4) Tuning should be similar between the two

Really it will come down to whether you want the units up top and in your face or down low and stealthy.

Good luck on your research, sorry I only have $0.02 worth of info to contribute, but here is a TTT for you anyways

bogielake

TTI-X for me, mostly due to local support of Road Rebel.

The Twins came home for the first time tonight

My install is starting this weekend.......

Bill Reid

... as long as it can remain civil...

I don't have experience with either kit... so I hope you not only get/take advice from guys that have installed and own the kits in question but you should also contact the manu's. That said based on my past experiences with TTi and plenty of experience with their Stage1, I continue to support their product line. Because my expereince does not include the PTK kit I cannot offer advice on their product but only to say that it apparantly has no problem producing power you'll never be able to use on the street. TTiX the same... Wretched excess I say! and I would have it no other way

... and don't forget other solid company's looking to add to YOUR choice! Andy with his TT kit and Kenne Bell with their S/C kit.

Best of Luck!
Bill

Shinobi'sZ

Good post...all of them...and I would say yes and no to a certain point about power levels..but we have to wait and see. I am far from done testing and the below graph was generated with some small intermittent misfires.

When we start looking at a few graphs from Big Bores or larger than 346cids (still are waiting on the guys with the Big Bore PTK TT setups). I think you will start to notice a difference in the power being produced. The T4 turbos are going to take full advantage of larger displacment and when combined with a T4 flange and full length merge collector headers there should be less back pressure. From a design perspective it should be more efficient.

As for real world...when it cools down...under 100* where I am at..I plan on hitting the track with street tires for some real world measures on street tires...and I don't mean DOT legal Street DRs either..just good ole Michelins or BFG KDWs.

As far as drivability, my car is very quite and very smooth with great power and transition between non boost and boost. ZERO mechanical failures and I didn't have to switch out my front tires or bend any tubes.

However some hood modifications are necessary. The plumbing up top gets too hot for a stock hood without some sort of thermal liner. I opted to vent mine. I haven't had anything melt or burn up as some predicted...nothing....zero issues.....lots of power...lots of looks....lots of interest (magazine)..this all equals lots of fun and ethusiastic conversation.

The TTiX kit is a great kit too...I am just glad I have my PTK kit instead of it. One of the main reasons, is I like to see what I paid for when I pop the hood....if I want stealth the hood can just stay closed...but with 2 giant heat plumes coming out the top of it (looking like jet exhaust) it is kind of hard not to notice.

3XBlack6spd

Shinobi...What Version of the PTK kit do you have? It looks like they offer Three. I like your graph though! thats what I am looking for 700-800 RWHP..that ought to do it!

Shinobi'sZ

I have the very first one to ever be (was the R&D car). They have made a couple of minor changes to the kit...just small cover plates on the collector.

Mine are Mild Steel..which will probably last forever as long as its coated. I will probably just recoat them with swaintech coatings. www.swaintech.com

The SS option is super nice.

I wish I would have tried the Water Cooled IC just for something different..but Air to Ais is great too.

Other's have done their own custom stuff with the PTK kit. It's kind of cool you can buy a DIYer and make little changes here and there that are visible..but overall you can still tell whose kit it is by looking at it.

That graph is going to go up quite a bit here shortly...as soon as the weather gets cooler..its off to the dyno for a couple of more pulls..then the track for some MPH.

Like I said I think the TTiX is a great kit...for different reasons I just like mine better...and its not just because I payed money for it. If I didn't like my PTK kit...I would have something else..always have and always will..just check the sig.

RoadRebel

1a)Ultimate peak HP potential (while trading off response) depending on the engine configuration MAY go to the PTK but thats yet to be seen. The TTi Stage X kit has made over 800rwhp in multiple applications with standard ballbearing turbos as delivered.

1b)Overall reliability certainly lies with the Stage X and its cast manifolds and standard all stainless hot parts. Risk assement can also take into the account all of the modifcations/intrusions into the underhood area with items like aftermarket alternators,coil pack relocation/wires and the modification/replacement of most of the items on the front of the engine as well as engine bay are required for the PTK. Long term reliability of any tubular header is always suspect, especially with a cantalievered mass as a turbo. As for the "Bling factor", go to any speed shop or track and take a look at any coated tube header with time on them and foresee the future of the bling.

2) Quality, Both kits appear to be of the requisit levels to be concidered.
3) Cost, Although the initial base cost of the PTK kit may appear to be less than the TTi its certainly not if you upgrade components to the level of the Stage X kit and factor in all the addition items required like coil reloaction components,hoods etc.
4. Tuning is a wash, they both walk and talk like a duck...

Phil

Shinobi'sZ

Wrong...disinformation..your 346cid did not make more power than my non ball bearing TT setup.

Show us one graph where you had a system make over 800rwhp....you can even use a larger than 346cid displacement. In looking at your original TTiX graph that you made a little over 700rwhp and less than 700 rwtq..the boost threshold is almost identical...so you can eat it on that one.
Somethings are OK with regards to discoloration of any coating on any header...but the Compressor covers are still high polished aluminum and you can see those clearly...even my TTi header discolored when I had it.

Most things on the front of the motor moved...like what???? just the alternator and a new ABS bracket that lowers it 1".....BFD...the Alternator is better than any stock alternator too....135 amps standard or 150 amp is available..what is the stock Alt..like 110.

Oh by the way is moving a couple of things better than having to bend the tubing of the Turbo kit to make it fit properly and then also limiting the size front tires you can run???? I would rather move the alt any day then have a system that limits performance in other areas...like suspension and wheels and tires.

You say long tube headers are subject to long term failure...this is where you are just flat out wrong or don't know what your saying.

Go look at any 24 hour endurance race where Turbos are used..all the winner use a full length header with merge collector...what do they say every 1 mile is equal to 1000 miles when road racing. Show me one GTP Turbo Toyota Indy setup using a Cast manifold.......or Chevy for that matter.


Just garbage....blah.

The only thing you got 100% right.

Phil[/QUOTE]

Tony @ MPH

On my car, I can tell you that suspension is unaffected and can be modified. Wheels you are either limited to 8.5" wide up front, or you have to run spacers to avoid rubbing. I think the same goes for LPE's setup too.

Fitting turbo kits in our cars without requiring changes or limits is kinda tough. Isn't the PTK vs. TTiX question here "Would you rather limit your wheel selection or would you rather have to modify existing or install a new hood?"

Shinobi'sZ

Wheel width matters way more to me than a hood.

I guess we should look at the guys with Maggie Hoods too and all the other NA hoods that were available way before the PTK setup came along.

Noob you have PM'd many times about stuff. You have my respect.

My points here are directed at Phil and his needless attempts to provide wrong information about PTK to promote TTi.

I could really careless about whether the hood is modded or changed out. I prefer to have wide wheels in the front to match the wide wheels in the back...its balance and a matter of oversteer vs understeer and handling. But none of that is important to me on this thread.

What is important to me is keep Phil in check when he starts with dis information to others on this board.

I can keep it civil until I start reading some of his shamless plugs that require making up BS about his kit and PTKs kit.

Its like I told George (still have the emails). Phil is hurting TTi when he does this stuff.

3XBlack6spd

I didn't want this to turn into a pissing match, and I understand you guys having differences in opinions, and that's fine. I really appreciate the information, from both sides. I, as well as most here, can decipher what works best for for my application. I am leaning towards the PTK kit, just because I like the way it looks. I don't want a new hood...I think that canbe worked out though. I am really interested to see Andy's kit, since it mounts the same way as the PTK.

Z06VET

[QUOTE=Shinobi'sZ]Wrong...disinformation..your 346cid did not make more power than my non ball bearing TT setup.

Most things on the front of the motor moved...like what???? just the alternator and a new ABS bracket that lowers it 1".....BFD...the Alternator is better than any stock alternator too....135 amps standard or 150 amp is available..what is the stock Alt..like 110.

Oh by the way is moving a couple of things better than having to bend the tubing of the Turbo kit to make it fit properly and then also limiting the size front tires you can run???? I would rather move the alt any day then have a system that limits performance in other areas...like suspension and wheels and tires.



I haven't had to bend any tubing with the Stage X . It came together pretty good . Had to slightly clearance a bit of the passenger side frame for some spacing issue, but not much more.

I have also noticed since my joining of this forum , you are quite a "passionate" guy when it comes to your opinion on a topic sometimes. More often than not if it relates to PTK . I was under the impression this was a forum of discussion and idea exchange with regards to
corvettes , not a place to vent negative verbal aggressions that I have seen from time to time in your posts .It can be discouraging at times to read threads when they are combative as opposed to just informative.
I have enjoyed this forum since joining it , and i would like to keep enjoying it . I am not trying to offend , just some friendly advise .


Dan

VETZILLA

Here ya go George @ TTi and Phil didn't want it out there but I'm posting it anyway sorry guys. This is on a 346 ci the name on the graph was removed out of respect for the owners confidentiality

Just to address the dip upstairs was some wicked valve float



I would also look on the TTi website there is one there also

Also if I recall @ 13# the TTi kit made more power than the PTK, I'm looking through past threads for the dyno sheets to confirm this but think I'm right but perhaps not.

In the Dyno Queen category right now it looks like the TTi is king of the hill, so get back to work and reclaim the title.

With the TTi kit I have had no discoloration on the headers, one the last Stage 1 kit I had very minor discoloring but it really doesn't matter because they are hung low and not up high right in your face but I think everyone will agree due to the heat headers are going to discolor.

Looks like you need to move or do some additional work on the following, coolant res, power steering pump and res, coil packs, lower rad and fans, possibly some brake lines but can't be sure from pics, cut back plastic cover, it appears that there would be a fair amount of heat shield required, does the battery sit under the relocated coolant tank or is the battery relocated to the back of the car I can't tell, not major surgery but None of this is requird with the TTi Stage X

I never had to bend one piece of tubing to make it fit, yes I did trim the ends on a few pieces and had a small amount of grinding to do on the cradle but in total I don't think I spent over 2 hours addressing fitment issues but no relocation of the items referenced above. With regards to the system limiting performance with the exception of not being able to make a full turn with a larger than stock front tire / wheel combo there is none. In order to get some assemblance of traction when racing the car I have gone top a 17x8.5 front / 18x13 rear combo and have no problems making a full turning radius in both directions, LPE also didn't see this to be a limitation to performance. When in 18 frt / 19 rear street trim I have no problems manunering the car at all even it tight spaces.

Just curious are these guys using stainless for the headers or coated mild steel. I am not into 24 hour endurance racing but this seems to be some good information to know on a project I will be starting soon using a tubular custom header.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

If you want bling go PTK it is exotic looking but this does require some additional work to be done

If you want to open the hood have it look stock and be able to work on the car the way it came from the factory go TTi.

Both kits appear to be equal in the overall power but from the graphs I have seen the edge does go to the TTi down low and at lower boost settings.




Its all good IMO just a matter of preference

mdhmi

I opted for the TTi over the PTK as I felt it had received far more R&D, didn't have to relocate several parts, prefered to keep the stock alternator, definitely had no interest in an aftermarket hood, as well wanted the stealth factor of the X kit.

Both system are capable of delivering FAR more power than you could ever begin to put down. That is why I don't understand why anyone would give a crap how a car dynos with race gas and hi boost. If you make 800 rwhp great. 1000 rwhp great. What is the point if you can't use it?

I can't comment on cost as I haven't even looked to see how much the PTK kits cost by the time you add up all the goodies.

The X kit can be had complete for a very reasonable cost, at least if you look at the absurdly overpriced competition (not referring to PTK).

Just remember - going fast is _not_ cheap.

Tuning would probably be pretty similar in difficulty.

Unlike some of the previous allegations - I'm happy to see the PTK kits make power. I hope they gets all the bugs worked out and become a viable turbo option, provided they aren't already.

Competition in this marketplace is what we need to bring down cost..

Good Luck,

Mark

3XBlack6spd

What does the TTi X kit cost complete?

mdhmi

The X kit is under $10K AFAIK. I padded my bill with heads, cam, injectors, pushrods, ARP bolts, and a meth kit with custom tank. I have way more mods than needed for my desired power level. I just got a little carried away during the build process.

Cheers,

Mark

bogielake

Vettezilla;

Looks like you got the uplink working : )

Thanks for letting me take some pics it will help immensely.

My one comment on the TTi X kit is that the instructions could be better, especially for a left handed DYI engineer

Even adding the pics I took of your car today would definately help.

Now I just need to figure out how to put the motor in.....heheheh

thanks

Brad

VETZILLA

PM Road Rebel he can give you the details. Also he is on his 3rd or 4th kit install now you are close enough that I would see if he can do yours if your not a DIYer.


Good luck whichever way you go both setups can make more power than you will ever need.


Mike

VETZILLA

Brad

I would of offered you my trans jack when you were over if I knew you needed it. It can be raised up to 71" and would be perfect to jack the whole cradle assembley into place. Let me know if you need it.

Mike

P.S. I thought to offer it up but don't think Mrs. Bogie Lake would of been to happy seeing that thing hanging out of the Jag when you pulled up.