GTB/ZR-1

Not to be the bearer of bad tidings, but I thought I'd break the news to all of you--before the new 'wolves' come in to tell us their cars are faster.
It took 15 years, but alas, we acquiesce...
Straight from Hib's article on the new C6:

"As for top speed? Well-my fellow Zroners will kill me for this-after 15 years, the ZR-1 is no longer the fastest production Corvette. With its LS2 putting out 400hp@6000 rpm (compared to the LT5's 375hp or 405hp@5800rpm) and a .28 coefficient of aerodynamic drag, a base-model 2005 Corvette will go 180 mph and perhaps even a little faster."

It was an amazing run, we should be proud of our cars. They are one of the most unique and different Corvettes *ever* produced--ahead of their time. The King is not dead, but the torch has been passed...

Hopefully--for us, a new debate looms:

"Z51s also receive the aforementioned transmission and rear axle coolers. GM claims that the new, 2005 Corvette Z51 handles, brakes and accelerates such that its overall performance is just a slight measure less than what a 2004 Z06 can achieve. Again, we'll reserve final judgment until we road test a car but, if that's true, we bet there's going to be a lot of '01-'03 Z06es traded for '05 Z51s."

As a Z06 owner as well--I'm not going to get involved in that one :lol:

zyal8r

I don't normally get involved in possible flamewars, but this one could get to that point. In any case :) ...

I think it's actually cool that the C6's top speed will eclipse that of previous Corvettes (if it includes ZR-1s, that is okay, I guess), but in my mind, I still see the ZR-1 as the king of the hill. The landmark achievements of the ZR-1 are what makes it such a monumental car - it was hitting 180mph in the late 1980s :yesnod: I don't believe the C6 was a glimmer in anyone's eye at that point.

I like the C6, very much, in fact, but I will not lose sight of the ZR-1s. In fact, I'm saving every penny I can so that my next Corvette will be a very nice '95 ZR-1 - it will sit right next to my LT4. After that, I'll consider a C5 or a C6, but I will make sure I have a ZR-1, first. It is my dream car, something I'd rather have over a Lamborghini that I dreamt about as a little boy - I don't know how that happened??

Anymore, my take on things - if someone comes along and says "my buggy's faster 'n your buggy..." I just wave and let 'em make a fool out of themselves. I don't particularly care if mine's faster (it often is slower...), but they leave the stoplight feeling good about themselves that they could get ahead of the little yellow underpowered Corvette... whatever :rolleyes:

So... when the C6 drivers come over and talk about the C6 presumed superiority over the ZR-1, just smile, wave, and let 'em go on their way, knowing you (I'd love to say we, but I don't have a Z, yet) have one of the most incredible pieces of (Corvette) history there is - DOHC, 32 valves, 7200rpm redline - the LT5... too bad they couldn't have made it conform to ODB-II for '96 (oh and there was that small problem of having run out of engines...), but I love my LT4, too :D

So when the C6 owners tell you theirs are faster, just tell 'em we hit 180mph two generations ago :cheers: :thumbs: :auto:

Mike


[Modified by zyal8r, 12:14 AM 1/2/2004]

90 Corvette ZR-1

The LT5 was going to meet OBD2 standards quite easily and make over 500 hp. GM killed the project since they wanted the C5 to come as close to the ZR-1 in performance as they could. And they knew they would never do that with the ZR-1 kicking out 500+ hp. The parts for these motors were literally thown into the dumpster behind the plant. Did you know that the LT5 was to have vairiable valve timing back in about 94ish (correct me on the year if im wrong). 500+hp in an OBD2 complient package with VVT 16 injectors and fuel ecomomy that is unmatched even today. I sware if it wasn't for GM founding the develpoment work, they would have had no good hand in the LT5.

Rkreigh

graham @ LPE talked about the variable timing OBD II LT5, it was to be conservatively rated @ 475 but yes, would make over 500 from the factory.

I do believe he has all of the designs (and certainly knows how it was done) but I doubt that enough of us could step up with the $$ to make development of the final tooling cost effective.

I admire ALL corvettes and have no doubt that the c6 will be a fantastic vette and hopefully hit 180+

lets see it do it all day!!!

high speed durability IS and always will be the LT5 claim to fame.

the quality of the engine is outstanding, and DOHC designs will always be more technically elegant and a superior architecture IMHO.

driving around with 500 rwhp for the price of a new vette just seems like a better deal to me!! sure, the c6 is cool with some great creature comforts.

but the LSV is just evil and will run away from anything GM is producing in 04 or anything less than a highly modded z06.

none of the luster of the kings crown has faded for me. :jester


[Modified by Rkreigh, 6:35 AM 1/2/2004]

Greybeard ZR1

"It was an amazing run, we should be proud of our cars. They are one of the most unique and different Corvettes *ever* produced--ahead of their time. The King is not dead, but the torch has been passed..."

I agree George, the time has come to stop the quibbling about whether the ZR1 is still the "King of the Hill", that time is passed. There's a new, beautiful, fabulously capable new car on the horizon. It took a full generation of Corvettes to surpass the capabilities of the ZR1.

The ZR1 will go down in Corvette lore as the Zenith of eighties technology. The very best they could build at the time. But unlike the supervettes of the sixties, the Grand Sport, the L88, the ZL1, the ZR1 was produced in sufficient numbers, so that now, if a young person who can't afford the latest and greatest doesn't want to buy a bland boulevard cruiser, they can find a ZR1 for $20K and change. A "Corvette from Hell", on a budjet.

Can you imagine what these cars would bring on the collector market if there were only a handfull of them? There were enough made that a whole community grew up around the car. Some people keep and polish them for future generations. Some modify them to keep up with the latest and fastest cars on the street. We drag race them, we open-road race them, we autocross them, we show them. I doubt that the cars produced between the last ZR1 and the new C6 will inspire such loyalty.

The King lives! :thumbs:

415LT5

All the more reason to mod your ZR-1. I'm not afraid of those 2005 C6's or the 2006 Z0 whatever. :lol: ZR-1's are still way cooler. When you pull into the parking lot at your local hangout...how many ZR-1's are there? Now, how many Z06's are there and how many of this new vette will be there after the first year of production? Way too many for me, thats for sure.

For arguement sake, except for top speed the 2002 Z06 surpassed the ZR-1 in overall performance. I think the 2001 Z06 was a draw.


[Modified by 415LT5, 10:00 AM 1/2/2004]

zyal8r

Cool, thanks for the information Kevin - I thought I had read somewhere that the LT5 wouldn't meet OBD-II specs, but I am glad to know that it would have :cheers: :cool: That would have been awesome to have seen a 500hp version! Too bad, I agree - but I am definitely counting the minutes until I can put a ZR-1 in my garage :yesnod:

Mike

Bans25

Lets see the C6 run that for 24hrs. and break some records :yawn:

Bans25

Greybeard ZR1, thats me!! I have always loved vettes. First one when I graduated college in 97' (a 87Vert), then I sold her for a down payment on my 1st house.. A year later I bought a basket case 78 25th SA, did a body off resto, sold that a year ago and bought a very nice 32K mile 90' Z for a great deal!

Back in 90-95 the ZR-1 was the king! (I thought I would never own one because they were so much $) Now I picked one up for 20K and in my opinion its still the king.. What else could I buy for 20K that even close to the "King"?

The legend still lives on in the used car market! :)





[Modified by Bans25, 11:16 AM 1/2/2004]

GTB/ZR-1

Guys, your preaching to the choir here...
I agree on the 24hr record though--that will stand a long, long time IMO.
As for that VW that broke the outright record? Um, I haven't seen any for sale @ my local VW dealer yet ;)

Have I told you guys lately that my ZR just plain rules??? :D :chevy

Demps

That C6 is a good looking car. Maybe I'll get one after I have every color 95 ZR-1. Wouldn't that be great.

Ted

DDSLT5

I'll keep it short and sweet - you all know I'm one of the biggest proponents of our beast, and I can blab all day about how it is the real King - and all that is true - but the REAL kicker is: and many have said it before me:

It's not the car, it's the PEOPLE!!!!

How many C5s will be dumped for C6s? How many of the ZR-1 faithful will sell their ZR-1 for a C6? Time will tell! Few cars inspired such clubs as the LT5 registry, and ZR1.net and the cult following that our car and people enjoy. I'm always amazed at how curteous and helpful the ZR-1 family is compared to other generations. We have something special going here - Let's keep it going - LONG LIVE THE KING!! :seeya

zyal8r

:thumbs: Now that's what I'm talking 'bout :yesnod: I agree with you, Ted! Hehe, I wish I made more $$ :steering:

Mike

Demps

I'm never going to get rich BUT they do pay me to fly the F-15C. These cars are great but let me tell you.... Now that I haven't flown in a while (on a non-flying job in Greece) flying will light your hair on fire.

I always set my goals to have a ZR-1. I did find out that the people are what make it great. The ones I like are the truly devoted ones. Even the new owners (me), that are so enthusiastic they can't stand it. The "brotherhood" is very similar in the flying community. The cars are not a business or even an investment, just a passion. I wish I could have every one.

The C6 is great. Technology is a wonderful thing. I hope when they pop their hood there is something to see. The ZR-1 will always attract a crowd when the hood is up. It might not look different from the outside (unless you know), but when the hood goes up the crowd gathers 'round.



[Modified by Demps, 12:21 PM 1/2/2004]

Mr6spd

The GM Vette chief engineers (McLennan and then Hill) stated along time ago that the reason for getting away from LT5 was that it was much larger and heavier. Their stated direction was that they could design a smaller, lighter car around a push rod engine, with the goal being that everyone could have ZR-1 performance without the premium price tag. Well ... It took 10 years, but they have finally done it.

bhamvett

I agree.I may be in the market for another ZR1 soon.My C5 is a very
nice car,but when I had the ZR1,I never saw another one in my area,
and when I went to THE GATHERING,even though I did not own a ZR1
at the time,it felt like family.

8388

I've done well over 190 mph in my Z many times, with just some simple mods. 93 ZR1 3580 lbs. without a driver. Without arguement the LT5 is a proven combination.

Now, lets see how many times the C6 can sustain top speed without engine failure.

USAZR1

"Will go 180mph"? Has it happened yet?

Bans25

Well I heard GM engineers have simulated a 180 run :jester

All of us engineers know that if you simulate something, then it has
to work in the real world right? :)

BiZ

The C6 looks to be a great car. I would love to get one. If that happens to present itself I will get one. It will not replace my ZR1. The only car that will replace my ZR1 is another ZR1.

I fell in love with the ZR1 when I was a senior in high school (89). I read every article I could about them. Drove to many dealerships to drool in the showrooms. and even stalked ZR1s driving down the road just to get a good look at them. I loved the European Exotic Cars of the mid 80s. All of them using DOHC technology. American cars could not touch the exotics back then. Then came the ZR1. I thought, finally a DOHC 32 Valve V-8 in a Corvette. And it was a monster. It went toe to toe with every exotic car of that time and came out on top. And since the newer Corvettes are still compared to the ZR1, it just speaks volumes about the ZR1.