darklordftt

I will get some tomorrow and try it.

Where are the injector relays? I think the secondary ones are around the battery. Can't find where the primary are.

darklordftt

Could a bad reading from the tps or the map sensor cause this?

Tom400CFI

No. It should fire off the injectors in time with the compression strokes you hear while cranking. Your pressure gauge should drop commensurately.

I really don't think there are injector "relays". Fused, keyed power should supply power to the injectors any time the key is on. The ECM has transistors ("relays"?) in it that provide grounds for the injectors, completing the circuit and firing the injector. IDK where any relays are.

You can watch this for yuk-yuks. FF to ~16:20;

I don't think that you need to run this test but it shows sort of what you should be seeing when you crank it w/the pumps disabled.


.

darklordftt

Right, I was expecting my gauge to go down like that. I'll check the injector fuses again when I get home, should I check others? Could my ECM all of a sudden just pooped itself?

darklordftt

I called Haibeck and left him a message about getting my ECM tested and if there is anything else I could check 1st before mailing it to him. I'll follow up once I hear back from the pro.

Tom400CFI

ECM's don't fail often...but I can't explain why yours is doing what it's doing. Let us know what you find out.

darklordftt

Mark Haibeck , the man, the myth, the Legend called me back. He said we diagnosed everything correctly. He wants me to check for the Security light on the dash while the car is turning over (with the doors closed). If it's on it's the VATs causing the issue, otherwise he said the next step is to test the ECM.

He also said the knocking noise is one of the cams moving around because the cam chain tensioner doesn't have any oil pressure from repeatedly trying to start it. He said it wouldn't do any damage, and it will go away once the car starts again.

I'll post a followup tonight on the Security light... my nutz are crossed, I really hope it's just the VATs.

Tom400CFI

Maybe. Typically VATS won't allow you to crank it at all (in addition to cutting injectors), so the fact that it cranks makes me skeptical about VATS being the issue.

darklordftt

So I've been reading up on VATS. Someone may have 1/2 bypassed the VATS system so the car will always crank, but the 2nd half of the VATS will not fire the injectors. I found other threads where the L98 engines had this same problem as mine, and the VATS was 1/2 bypassed behind the radio, a dark green wire that goes to the starter... Mark mentioned this on the phone as a possibility. It is possible someone before me partially bypassed the VAT, and it could now be failing but still cranking. I found out that on the normal vettes a new PROM flash can disable the VATS injector security, but on the ZR1 I'm not sure if the ECM needs to be re-programmed to get it totally bypassed. I'll know more in a few hours though. I also believe I have a 2nd ignition key to try. My buddy mentioned to me to try the backup key when this 1st happened, but I dismissed it because the engine cranked.

Tom400CFI

That's true. You can jump the starter relay and it could do what you're seeing. I actually did that once to my car as a diagnostic measure. I put it back when I was done, but....You never know what someone else did.

darklordftt

No security light when trying to start the car, and I tried both of the keys I have. The SES light is on with the car in accessory, but I think it always is with the engine off. I'll call Mark back in the morning. Going to get the ECM tested.

darklordftt

It started right up with starting fluid, then stalled like on the 1st day. Going to check the injector fuses again.

mhobtr

Now you can concentrate on a fuel delivery issue,

darklordftt

I foud this on the forum
The CCM monitors various systems and reports faults.
The CCM send a data signal to the ECM to engage injectors.
On major systems , if in fault will not allow car to start.
SIR (airbag) faults will do this for instance.
Something as little as a bad earth on one of the motion sensors ( common problem )will give a error code and no signal to fire injectors.

Tom400CFI

Yeeaaahhhh......IDK about that. You should be able to drive the car w/an air bag issue. I could be wrong, but I don't think those things will prevent it from running. You should be able to see codes related to that through your DIC and/or C68, if they exist.

darklordftt

I did check the air bag fuse, as some mentioned it earlier, and most of the others. Could the CCM be bad? I'm really shocked that were at the point of testing the ecm.

Tom400CFI

The CCM could be bad, but again, they don't fail much at all.

Also, If you CCM was toast, you wouldn't have an odometer reading or any DIC function. And again, any CCM issues should generate DTC's that you can look at in your DIC, or C68.

darklordftt

So, I never knew I could view codes on the digital dash. . Fast forward to the 43 second mark in the video. I always just did it by reading the SES light flashes. I'm going to try try this when I get home and see if any codes come up. I think I'm also going to try and disconnect the negative battery terminal and reconnect it to reset the ecm. I'll call Mark back later this morning as well and see what he says. Most likely I'll be shipping my ecm to him after the holiday.

Tom400CFI

I guess I should have been more clear. That is what I meant when I said:
You can diagnose through the DIC and also your HVAC

-=Jeff=-

ECM is more of a possibility than the CCM.. but before you go there.

Are the injectors new? if not:
Have you ohmed out all the injectors?
With the plenum off have you turned key on to check for any leaks form injectors?