Rkreigh

I'm wondering if anyone has setup an LT5 to run on E85

my HC is 135 on a 48 standard on the VA emissions dyno and I'd like to get a memcal burned for E85 to get it through emissions

the big cams likely won't ever get down that low

any thoughts?

lgaff

E85 would also require some of the fuel lines to be replaced

Dominic Sorresso

Ron,

Is it spiking at idle? That's where the overlap creates havoc with HC. R U running closed or open loop?

JackDidley

No Z, but I replaced the lines under the hood on my 87 because they were old and too close to the headers. The original rubber lines are still at the tank though. Been running E85 nearly a year, no problem. Also, I let some rubber lines soak in E85 for about 8 months to see what would happen. Finally threw them out because there was no sign of deteriorating. Z may require some big injectors to run the E85 also.

tpepmeie

Ron,
Good question. I think the calibration wouldn't be that hard. The stoich value would have to change, given that E85 is somewhere in the 9's (?) versus pump gas of 14.5-14.7 or so. Other than that, I'd guess you might have to spend some time on the cranking fuel and startup enrichment to ensure it fires ok every time.

As was mentioned by others, you'll need injectors capable of the required flow and a fuel pump to keep up, if you want to run it at WOT.

Not sure what to believe about the fuel lines. Some say incompatible, others say ethanol is not corrosive like methanol.

Todd

Rkreigh

just to clarify this memcal calibration would only be used to pass emissions, my secondaries go on all the time above 1% throttle, and I only need enough "pump capacity" to go 25 MPH

this chip would never be used for driving, just to get through emissions

I currently run a closed loop calibration from Marc, headers, and random SS cats (a few years old)

I might try an LPE open loop chip and the gas spiked with alchy, but last time "the cocktail" only got it down to 98 HC on a 98 standard

now that I have no secondaries, even that is optimistic with the big cams

390, big cams, no secondaries = no pass HC at 15 and 25 MPH

on the tough VA dyno. standard is 48 HC now same as california

I have some other options, but want to see how difficult this would be

thinking about having corey try and ask Bob Hall as he has a 385 LPE with the big cams which would likely get "close enough" if corey can do the tune on the dyno just to get the stoich setup OK for M85

I'm thinking it would pass the sniff test

once I get it back home, drain the gas, back to the Haibeck chip and good old 93 octane

thanks!

JackDidley

For a one time deal, you could run it as is. Just change the injector constant. If you are running 40# injectors set the constant at 30# and then datalog to tweak on it. Something like that. It would kill the motor if you went WOT though. I added 20% fuel at WOT on top of installing bigger injectors.

glass slipper

Are your big intake cams set up the same way as the stock cams where the lobes for the secondaries have more duration? If they are, a plenum pull to temporarily "plug" the secondary runners could eliminate up to 20° of overlap and possibly tame the beast. You could maybe even have two sets of gaskets where one set has the secondary runners blocked and then you just have to lift the plenum enough to "swap" gaskets and lower it back down...a "quick change" plenum gasket.

The lack of secondaries is not what is causing you to fail, it's the amount of overlap created by the extra duration of the cams. I don't believe going to E85 is going to do anything for you as the overlap is going to let even more unburned HC into the exhaust meaning you may end up even worse off. The good news is your NOx should go down with E85...but that doesn't seem to be your problem. Good luck with it.

BennieC.

Can you post a copy of the inspection report? I'd like to see it.

Rkreigh

don't have the emissions report, but the advice most have given me is to put some fresh cats on it. I have 4 year old random stainless steel high flow which might not be working as well now

change to fresh oil, plugs, and give it a try.

I don't know how the cams are timed, LPE build this car way back in 97 for Larry Merow

I'm thinking the e85 woudl burn cleaner and produce less HC but if the cams still won't pass even with e85 it would be a waste of time

anyone know a good emissions station in va that can help???

thanks for any advice

DDSLT5

Ron,

The cams will be timed as per stock - anything else is just a ridiculous amount of effort, and LPE never bothered. The power came from the long duration on the lobes, not a change in timing. If I were in your shoes, I'd either swap in another motor or buy another red 95 Z! Seriously - try straight alcohol, see what happens. My bro got a 368 on straight alcohol to pass with NO cats - HC around 250 ppm - with cats I'm guessing it would be super low. Short of that - cam swap or engine swap......or move to Florida!

BennieC.

Ron,
How about the CO reading? What about the O2 and CO2 level? I asked because I do this for a living(smog tech and shop owner) and those are what I look at. Hows the O2 sensor? Scoped the o2 sensor and if it's in fuel control then you continue with the diag. You can also do an intrusive test on the catalytic converter and find out their reduction. All the aftermarket cats that were built prior to the new CA 09 law were not that good in reducing emissions especially the non-OBDII.

Rkreigh

I'll have to retest to get the readings. the last successful test I had was 4 years ago and barely got it past using an old open loop LPE chip and "leaning it out" using alchy in the gas. got it down to 97 HC on a 98 limit. don't remember the other readings but it passed!

now VA has cut the HC limit to 48. using the new "closed loop" chip and 4 year old random cats, car went to about 135 HC, don't remember the other readings.

I'm going to try to put fresh cats on it and try again to get a "baseline"

I can register the car in other states or counties, but don't want to hassle with that and draw attention if I can avoid it.

thanks for the advice, I'm thinking that an E85 calibration "done right" could indeed pass as the alchy would burn much cleaner than gas.

that's the concept anyway!

thanks all for the advice!

locobob

Rather than replace the cats how about fabbing up a large third cat assembly to take the place of the x-pipe/resonator? You could use a big stock style cat and Y-pipe it at each end - add flanges for easy swap in and out. Hopefully the little Random cats would keep the exhaust temps up high enough for the big cat to work.

JackDidley

Bjankuski, hangs out in C4 Tech and Scan & Tune sometimes. Does a lot of tuning and recently switched over to E85, I think. Hes very knowledgeable and may be able to do the tune. You could contact him for some info. Its very do-able and injectors was the main expense, which was not that bad for me. I only have 8.

glass slipper

Alcohols are a partial oxidation product of petroleum and are not found to any extent in the crude oil. The compounds are saturated with a chain structure of the general formula R-OH where the radical R is the paraffin group attached to the hydroxyl radical OH. Ethanol is written as C2H5OH and is represented by the molecular structure:

...H..H
....l...l
H-C-C-OH
....l...l
...H..H

As you can see, there are plenty of hydrocarbons in ethanol so I'm not sure what you're going to gain by going with E85. Alcohol tends to lean a mixture out as it carries it's own oxygen molecules but if you have a "dirty" engine due to marginal catalytic converters or lots of overlap with your cams, you're still going to end up with high HC in the exhaust.

A poster above made a comment about poor quality cats in the after market and that is a true statement. Make sure your cats are working properly before chasing an E85 solution that may end up at a dead end. You still haven't given the cam specs and timing (and you may not know them) but it would be important info to know. Make sure you have as much info as possible before embarking on what may end up being a wild goose chase.

Dominic Sorresso

100%

Rkreigh

didn't build the engine and the LPE "stg 3" cams have around 234 or so duration.

they are pretty rowdy, compression ratio is 12-1, 390 displacement

thanks for the advice on the alchy, sounds like that's not a good solution for this situation.

would "cats in series" get hot enough to clean it up more?

I have headers and the after market "bullet cats" don't work nearly as well as stock so finding some stock exh manifolds and cats might be better, but spending a bunch of cash and still failing would be pretty frustrating and I'll just go another route to end the madness

not going to go crazy with engine swaps although borrowing a car might work pretty well,

most folks don't bother checking the vin and it would run through just fine with a "friendly" emissions station

so that's my BEST option here, any thoughts???

I know a few nice stock 95s running around here in NOVA

Dominic Sorresso

Ron,

Running open or closed loop?

Rkreigh

haibeck tune, closed loop

thanks!