Questions for performance rebuilt 700R4 users.
12-07-2004, 11:35 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
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Questions for performance rebuilt 700R4 users.
OK , I'm about to take my tranny back again to the place that re-built it as I'm still not happy with it fully. I just want to know if anyone else has come across these 'symptoms' with their performance rebuilt 700R4's, and if any of these are 'normal'.
1. 1-2 shift is VERY firm at part throttle. Fast but not as harsh at WOT.
2. When lightly accelerating from a stop, let go of the gas around 15mph and car literally CLUNKS into 2nd. You can hear metal hitting metal HARD.
3. When at 1/2 throttle going uphill (only), sometimes 2-3 slips.
4. At WOT on the highway, doesn't upshift to 4th.
5. Sometimes when slowing down from 30mph or so, the tranny downshifts from 3-2 harshly. Kind of like Problem #2 but reversed.
6. At 70MPH+ when acceleratnig in OD (not WOT, or it will downshift to 3rd), car shudders still, after 3x telling him. he said he added additive to the TC and that should have taken care of it.
I've had this built for me at a local shop for over $2K about 8 months ago, put only about 3K on the car since, One drag-day, about 4 Runs on it..
Thanks in advance.
1. 1-2 shift is VERY firm at part throttle. Fast but not as harsh at WOT.
2. When lightly accelerating from a stop, let go of the gas around 15mph and car literally CLUNKS into 2nd. You can hear metal hitting metal HARD.
3. When at 1/2 throttle going uphill (only), sometimes 2-3 slips.
4. At WOT on the highway, doesn't upshift to 4th.
5. Sometimes when slowing down from 30mph or so, the tranny downshifts from 3-2 harshly. Kind of like Problem #2 but reversed.
6. At 70MPH+ when acceleratnig in OD (not WOT, or it will downshift to 3rd), car shudders still, after 3x telling him. he said he added additive to the TC and that should have taken care of it.
I've had this built for me at a local shop for over $2K about 8 months ago, put only about 3K on the car since, One drag-day, about 4 Runs on it..
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by MrNuke; 12-07-2004 at 11:38 AM.
12-07-2004, 02:13 PM
#2
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My 700R was exactly the same
I've gone through two 700r4's, each rebuilt twice. The last one had B&M shift kit and etc. It blew up like an IED. It had all the symptoms that you are experiencing.
I finally had enough down time and wasted cash. I bought the Raptor 700R4, Level 3 w/Torque drive package, 2300 stall converter. Good to 600 +ft. lbs Torque. $2000.00 shipped. It is like having a new car. The guy that built my tranny's took a look at it and immediately said he couldn't build a tranny like that, he figures there are at least $1200 in HD./performance parts. And he cannot spin balance it to 9500 rpm.
If you haven't checked these guys out, take a look, big site .. takes time to load.
http://www.transmissionhead.com/
I finally had enough down time and wasted cash. I bought the Raptor 700R4, Level 3 w/Torque drive package, 2300 stall converter. Good to 600 +ft. lbs Torque. $2000.00 shipped. It is like having a new car. The guy that built my tranny's took a look at it and immediately said he couldn't build a tranny like that, he figures there are at least $1200 in HD./performance parts. And he cannot spin balance it to 9500 rpm.
If you haven't checked these guys out, take a look, big site .. takes time to load.
http://www.transmissionhead.com/
12-07-2004, 02:15 PM
#3
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I bought my performance 700R4 from Jaspers and I am very happy with it. Very firm shifts especially when I punch it and the down shift is perfect. I paid a little under $1,400 for the unit with a core trade in with my original tranny.
12-07-2004, 02:24 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by #70SM2
I've gone through two 700r4's, each rebuilt twice. The last one had B&M shift kit and etc. It blew up like an IED. It had all the symptoms that you are experiencing.
I finally had enough down time and wasted cash. I bought the Raptor 700R4, Level 3 w/Torque drive package, 2300 stall converter. Good to 600 +ft. lbs Torque. $2000.00 shipped. It is like having a new car. The guy that built my tranny's took a look at it and immediately said he couldn't build a tranny like that, he figures there are at least $1200 in HD./performance parts. And he cannot spin balance it to 9500 rpm.
If you haven't checked these guys out, take a look, big site .. takes time to load.
http://www.transmissionhead.com/
I finally had enough down time and wasted cash. I bought the Raptor 700R4, Level 3 w/Torque drive package, 2300 stall converter. Good to 600 +ft. lbs Torque. $2000.00 shipped. It is like having a new car. The guy that built my tranny's took a look at it and immediately said he couldn't build a tranny like that, he figures there are at least $1200 in HD./performance parts. And he cannot spin balance it to 9500 rpm.
If you haven't checked these guys out, take a look, big site .. takes time to load.
http://www.transmissionhead.com/
Is there a core exchanged in that $2,000.00 price?
Tim
12-07-2004, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RocketSapp
Is there a core exchanged in that $2,000.00 price?
Tim
Tim
12-07-2004, 02:34 PM
#6
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Give a call to Grant at Grant Transmisstion, phone on my site; he is in West Haven, CT.
He did a rebuild, shift kit and TC for me a few years ago and still pulling strongly.
He did a rebuild, shift kit and TC for me a few years ago and still pulling strongly.
12-07-2004, 02:39 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
I got mine from pro-built.com, it can handle upto 600HP and it shifts real fast and firm, I also got the vigilate 2600 TC, the two combined makes for a really sweet shifting, firm shifting, reliable tranny. It downshifts great, not hard, it upshifts great, soft when I'm cruzin' and hard when needed, BTW it has all trangso stuff inside.... 
12-07-2004, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MrNuke
1. 1-2 shift is VERY firm at part throttle. Fast but not as harsh at WOT.
2. When lightly accelerating from a stop, let go of the gas around 15mph and car literally CLUNKS into 2nd. You can hear metal hitting metal HARD.
3. When at 1/2 throttle going uphill (only), sometimes 2-3 slips.
4. At WOT on the highway, doesn't upshift to 4th.
5. Sometimes when slowing down from 30mph or so, the tranny downshifts from 3-2 harshly. Kind of like Problem #2 but reversed.
6. At 70MPH+ when acceleratnig in OD (not WOT, or it will downshift to 3rd), car shudders still, after 3x telling him. he said he added additive to the TC and that should have taken care of it.
2. When lightly accelerating from a stop, let go of the gas around 15mph and car literally CLUNKS into 2nd. You can hear metal hitting metal HARD.
3. When at 1/2 throttle going uphill (only), sometimes 2-3 slips.
4. At WOT on the highway, doesn't upshift to 4th.
5. Sometimes when slowing down from 30mph or so, the tranny downshifts from 3-2 harshly. Kind of like Problem #2 but reversed.
6. At 70MPH+ when acceleratnig in OD (not WOT, or it will downshift to 3rd), car shudders still, after 3x telling him. he said he added additive to the TC and that should have taken care of it.
1.) No.
2.) No.
3.) No.
4.) I haven't been there.
5.) My problem is with the 2-1, downshift. It felt like it was going to tear the whole drive train out of the car at 10 mph or so with closed throttle. After taking it back several times, they got it better, but not good. Finally, I was advised to come to a stop in "drive" (OD), rather than in 3rd. That works, for me. It isn't right, in my book, but it's acceptable. *I* think it is crazy for a trans shop to encourage me to leave it in OD, where every other shop, and common sense says 3rd is better for the trans.
6.) No.
RACE ON!!!
12-07-2004, 03:22 PM
#9
Originally Posted by CFI-EFI
My trans was done by a local rebuilder, at great expense. It is said that this trans is good for 700+ hp.
1.) No.
2.) No.
3.) No.
4.) I haven't been there.
5.) My problem is with the 2-1, downshift. It felt like it was going to tear the whole drive train out of the car at 10 mph or so with closed throttle. After taking it back several times, they got it better, but not good. Finally, I was advised to come to a stop in "drive" (OD), rather than in 3rd. That works, for me. It isn't right, in my book, but it's acceptable. *I* think it is crazy for a trans shop to encourage me to leave it in OD, where every other shop, and common sense says 3rd is better for the trans.
6.) No.
RACE ON!!!
1.) No.
2.) No.
3.) No.
4.) I haven't been there.
5.) My problem is with the 2-1, downshift. It felt like it was going to tear the whole drive train out of the car at 10 mph or so with closed throttle. After taking it back several times, they got it better, but not good. Finally, I was advised to come to a stop in "drive" (OD), rather than in 3rd. That works, for me. It isn't right, in my book, but it's acceptable. *I* think it is crazy for a trans shop to encourage me to leave it in OD, where every other shop, and common sense says 3rd is better for the trans.
6.) No.
RACE ON!!!
12-07-2004, 04:46 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
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Originally Posted by 65Z01
Give a call to Grant at Grant Transmisstion, phone on my site; he is in West Haven, CT.
He did a rebuild, shift kit and TC for me a few years ago and still pulling strongly.
He did a rebuild, shift kit and TC for me a few years ago and still pulling strongly.
Heh.. he is the one that built my tranny that I'm having issues with..
"ss Been back to him 3x now. He had it out of my car 3x now..
12-07-2004, 05:12 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
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Originally Posted by 65Z01
Wow, that is surprising as I'd heard noting but good stories before going to him.
Hope you get it resolved soon.
Hope you get it resolved soon.
12-07-2004, 06:47 PM
#13
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When Grant rebuilt my A4 he said it now had much higher line pressure due to a HD pump he put in.
I picked it up too late to test drive locally so just drove back to SE NY. On the part throttle up/down shifts it seemed very harsh, too much so for my taste. So I backed off the TV cable a copla clicks (toward the TB) and it smoothed out the part throttle shifts to where they are still firm but not "dramatic".
How high have you gone trying to get it to upshift into OD and where is the 2-3 WOT upshift?? It may be that the WOT 3-4 shift point is simply too high. Here I'm assuming that he installed a Vette 3-4 upshift sleeve so that it will indeed up shift at WOT.
I had him raise my shiftpoints and so don't yet know if it will upshift at WOT as that would now happen well over 160mph (2.59s).
What year Vette do you have and what engine mods, gears, etc?
I picked it up too late to test drive locally so just drove back to SE NY. On the part throttle up/down shifts it seemed very harsh, too much so for my taste. So I backed off the TV cable a copla clicks (toward the TB) and it smoothed out the part throttle shifts to where they are still firm but not "dramatic".
How high have you gone trying to get it to upshift into OD and where is the 2-3 WOT upshift?? It may be that the WOT 3-4 shift point is simply too high. Here I'm assuming that he installed a Vette 3-4 upshift sleeve so that it will indeed up shift at WOT.
I had him raise my shiftpoints and so don't yet know if it will upshift at WOT as that would now happen well over 160mph (2.59s).
What year Vette do you have and what engine mods, gears, etc?
12-07-2004, 06:52 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
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He told me not to touch the TV cable adjustment, and right now the car shifts at 5K on the dot from 1-2 and 2-3 at wot.
I tested the car to 5600rpms at a hair under 120mph and it still didn't upshift to 4th. I was thinking of lowering the TV cable/line pressure, but then the car would shift at way low rpms vs what I asked him to set the shiftpoints at (He put in a shiftkit aswell I was told).
After the 2nd time the car was back to him, I took it back because the car shfted to 4th at 60mph, even at WOT. So the car shook and barely accelerated worth a damn.. If I manually kept it in 3rd, it was still shaking and accelerated 'slightly' better, but was puffing smoke like crazy (which came from the tranny as the engine was and is running just fine).
3rd tiem I had to have it towed to him as some pin broke inside (forgot what he told me it was exactly), and the car was just slipping and not changing gears..
I have an '85 vette, with 3.45 gears, all bolt ons, headers, ported superram upper and lower, and dart iron race heads.
I tested the car to 5600rpms at a hair under 120mph and it still didn't upshift to 4th. I was thinking of lowering the TV cable/line pressure, but then the car would shift at way low rpms vs what I asked him to set the shiftpoints at (He put in a shiftkit aswell I was told).
After the 2nd time the car was back to him, I took it back because the car shfted to 4th at 60mph, even at WOT. So the car shook and barely accelerated worth a damn.. If I manually kept it in 3rd, it was still shaking and accelerated 'slightly' better, but was puffing smoke like crazy (which came from the tranny as the engine was and is running just fine).
3rd tiem I had to have it towed to him as some pin broke inside (forgot what he told me it was exactly), and the car was just slipping and not changing gears..
I have an '85 vette, with 3.45 gears, all bolt ons, headers, ported superram upper and lower, and dart iron race heads.
Last edited by MrNuke; 12-07-2004 at 06:55 PM.
12-07-2004, 07:27 PM
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I realize that moving the TV cable too far can cause clutch wear but mine was shifting too hard and too low at part throttle; moving it toward the TB a little both raised and softened a little the part throttle shifts with no effect on WOT shifting. TV cable changes have no effect on WOT shifting; only the governor on the left side of the A4 controls WOT shifts.
But you are likely wise to not mess with that if he told you so, as you don't want to cause any unnecessary issues over service just before you take it in.
With your gears and other WOT shifts I'd expect the 3-4 upshift at around 104mph. If 1-2 & 2-3 are happening at 5,000rpm the 3-4 should have come by 5,600rpm.
I too have one of his TransGo like shift kits and really liked the result along with the better pump. With the old GY Eagles it would chirp the tires on the 1-2 at about 1/2 throttle.
But you are likely wise to not mess with that if he told you so, as you don't want to cause any unnecessary issues over service just before you take it in.
With your gears and other WOT shifts I'd expect the 3-4 upshift at around 104mph. If 1-2 & 2-3 are happening at 5,000rpm the 3-4 should have come by 5,600rpm.
I too have one of his TransGo like shift kits and really liked the result along with the better pump. With the old GY Eagles it would chirp the tires on the 1-2 at about 1/2 throttle.
12-07-2004, 08:02 PM
#16
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Yeah I thought it should have come around 110mph or so too.
When racing I usually wind out 3rd to about 113-115mph, but then I'd expect it to go into 4th when I push it up to it.
It only shifts to 4th when I let up off the gas to about 1/2 throttle or so..
I will be calling grant tomorrow to see fi he can hopefully take the car and fix it finally.
I just prefer to be able to go past 113mph at WOT if I want to. (On a race track only of course. ;-) )
When racing I usually wind out 3rd to about 113-115mph, but then I'd expect it to go into 4th when I push it up to it.
It only shifts to 4th when I let up off the gas to about 1/2 throttle or so..
I will be calling grant tomorrow to see fi he can hopefully take the car and fix it finally.
I just prefer to be able to go past 113mph at WOT if I want to. (On a race track only of course. ;-) )
12-07-2004, 09:32 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by 65Z01
I realize that moving the TV cable too far can cause clutch wear but mine was shifting too hard and too low at part throttle; moving it toward the TB a little both raised and softened a little the part throttle shifts with no effect on WOT shifting. TV cable changes have no effect on WOT shifting; only the governor on the left side of the A4 controls WOT shifts.
But you are likely wise to not mess with that if he told you so, as you don't want to cause any unnecessary issues over service just before you take it in.
With your gears and other WOT shifts I'd expect the 3-4 upshift at around 104mph. If 1-2 & 2-3 are happening at 5,000rpm the 3-4 should have come by 5,600rpm.
I too have one of his TransGo like shift kits and really liked the result along with the better pump. With the old GY Eagles it would chirp the tires on the 1-2 at about 1/2 throttle.
But you are likely wise to not mess with that if he told you so, as you don't want to cause any unnecessary issues over service just before you take it in.
With your gears and other WOT shifts I'd expect the 3-4 upshift at around 104mph. If 1-2 & 2-3 are happening at 5,000rpm the 3-4 should have come by 5,600rpm.
I too have one of his TransGo like shift kits and really liked the result along with the better pump. With the old GY Eagles it would chirp the tires on the 1-2 at about 1/2 throttle.
1st. it's a very complicated & technical piece of machinery. Having watched my previous mechanic play with various combinations of valve body's, accumulator spring's, and it never worked quite right. For the past 2 weeks I've been playing with shift points, by using a Governor spring & weight kit from B&M. It's actually really cool!. But requires experimentation. Lifting the car & popping out the governor, but only takes a minute or two to change combinations.
But, there are literally hundreds of possible combinations. One thing I have learned, Don't mess with the TV cable! your problem is somewhere else. '2nd'. Building a High Performance transmission is as much an art form as it is technical. "In my opinion" only someone who has built a lot of these and knows how all these possible combinations will perform together has a chance of getting it right. These guys at Raptor have built 'Thousands of em' .. believe me I'm not getting kicked back here, but this has been driving me nuts for years and $$.
The bottom line I think, is to go with someone who is a specialist and done thousands of em' and is really interested in making the very best.
12-07-2004, 10:43 PM
#19
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The person/shop who rebuilt mine has done a few in the past for people off this forum, and they weren't having any problems, so I thought I'd be safe. To tell the truth, I was originally told around $1500, then $1800, then the total came up to be 2K before I knew it. I didn't really care if it would be working as I'd want it to be. I know I could have ordered a new one built for 2K, but I wanted to go with a local shop pending any problems, so i wouldn't have to have it taken out and shipped back and forth, etc.. I just wanted to have it working perfectly.
Oh well we'll see.. I want to do some racing next year as I didn't get to do much of it this year because of this Friggin fiasco..
Oh well we'll see.. I want to do some racing next year as I didn't get to do much of it this year because of this Friggin fiasco..
12-08-2004, 02:12 PM
#20
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St. Jude Donor '05
I don't know if this will help, but I had basically the same problems with a 200-4R that I had rebuilt with KEVLAR clutches. Turned out that it was the governor. As soon as it was replaced with the proper one, it ran like a new car.