Cherry6speed

Wrong topic, wrong time (Go back 20 years ago when the C-4 was introduced and compare it to the BMW then) Wrong place. Corvette C-4 tech forum. PERIOD

bogus

Sure. Not a problem. The 325 was a fine little car, even then.

And, even with a slight power loss over the Crossfire, was still a fine handling ride. And would sneak up on you in corners like no bodies business.

A good friend had a mid-70s 320 with some suspension mods, he could take a corner at 100 that I could not touch at 70! 30mph could not be attributed to driver skill (I was driving an 81 Toyota Celica at the time).

Every time I tried to take that corner any faster, the chassis would get all unsettled and just not feel confidence inspiring.

I was not able to take that corner at 100mph until I got my 92 Prelude Si... and my 94 Prelude VTEC would not do it until after I redid the suspension! Somewhere in there, Honda softened the suspension, raised it, too. I had to put springs, shocks, and upper control arm bushings to bring it back, then, and only then, could my 94 Prelude break the 100mph barrier on that corner.

The corner in question is on a north south road, it is a rather broad sweeper, with a touch of reducing/increasing (directionally dependant) radius.

Oh, the Vette does do it at 100mph, but it isn't all that comfortable about it. My old 94 Prelude is still the better car for that corner.

Cherry6speed

Ok, now we are getting closer to FAIR discussion. The 84 325 was basically underpowered 4-door box. It did handle nice though. I lived in Germany until I turned 12. They are OK. Ask any German in Germany which car they would rather own and it will be the Corvette. My brother lives there right now and the Germans love and prefer the Corvette over the BMW. Now explain that??????

bogus

Quite simple - Corvette's are an exotic to the average German. Besides, they are great on the perfectly smooth Autobahn!

I would love to blast down that stretch of road in my Vette... who wouldn't.

I don't know if it's so much a preference, cause I would be willing to bet that most of them haven't DRIVEN a Vette. I think they are much like many of us who are sold on a vision, or feeling. Not so much fact. Marketing is a powerful tool.

I like my Vette, don't get me wrong, I just see it's glaring faults, and I intend to fix as many as I can!

jsaunde2

I feel like I'm qualified to comment on this thread as I have both a '96 Corvette and an '03 330i ZHP.

I think what many of you are overlooking what a fantastic car the 330i with ZHP performance package is. It doesn't put out the same handling numbers as my Corvette, and doesn't scare passengers in the same way, but it is an amazing car to drive every day.

It handles predictably and smoothly, has significant power (CD 0-60 in 5.6), looks great, and has significantly better interior materials than any GM product I've ever been in.

I don't know if there's any way I could be happier with the balance of performance, comfort, style, and practicality present in my 330i ZHP.

That being said, a sport package 330i doesn't feel nearly as tight and returns a significantly less rewarding driving experience in return for a very forgiving ride.

Basically, they are both great cars each suited best for slightly different circumstances. I encourage anyone who doubts BMW's performance abilities to drive a 330i ZHP car.

As to using Speed GT performance to compare production cars, that is completely worthless. The cars running in Speed GT have been much more than production plus for several years. The rules governing modifications to the cars (Vehicle Technical Specifications) change on a continual basis in order to make every car competitive (at least 4 times since June). Everything about the rules in Speed GT is geared towards eliminating any inherent advantage one car may have over another. Therefore, in general the teams with the best prepared cars (closely tied to budget) and best drivers (closely tied to teams with best prepared cars) win more. There really isn't much correlation to production vehicle performance comparisons, or else the CTS-V manufacturer backed team wouldn't be trouncing privateer Corvette teams.


Jason

VR'92

Remember the BMW will do all of these things with 4 or 5 people in em, 3 set of Golf Clubs and a couple bags of groceries in em!

HiRiser

"it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" especially if it a european (not that the BMrs are that slow)IMHO

zelement

a car's handling ability and feel depends on the stiffness of its chassis. The C4 is known for its soft chassis and stiff suspension. I have always felt the C4 handles good on a flat smooth surface but if it is thrown a few bumps and imperfections, the car feels terrible. If you really want to increase the handling feel of your C4 I would go with the coilover along with big sway bars, trailing arms, roll bar, x brace, and camber brace. Start with re-enforcing the chassis first, you will notice a huge difference. The coilover setup will soak up bumps and imperfections therefore giving you more confidence in everyday driving.

wildman378

My mom has a 99 528i BMW and it doesn't handle anywhere near my 95 vert c4. It handles good but the vettes handles way better.

then again it's a 528i not a sport suspension car or nothing.

Wheelman

Exactly... Stiffen it up, add a camber brace, harness bar, change your clear top to a solid one, lower it. All these things will help your handiling ability.

bogus

that's what I have been trying to say... except I forgot to add in the part about chassis strength!

Agree 100%!!!

LT1Vetteguy78

Why even compare the two, time frame si so dam far apart now compare a 2004 BMW M3 to a 2004 z06 AND the Corvette takes the cake

Z06
0-60- 4.24
0-100- 9.88
1/4 mile-12.64 @113.89MPH
60-0 ft- 105
skidpad- 1.00
slalom- 68.99 MPH


M3
0-60- 4.65
0-100- 11.61
1/4 mile- 13.18@ 106.92 MPH
60-0 ft- 111
skidpad- 0.89
slalom- 68.99 MPH

VR'92

Uhh, a Z06 isn't exactly the same thing as your regular ol C4......and a 95 M3 can pull 1g on a skidpad. It was ranked the best handling car in america for years.

Cherry6speed

Please re-read the Post topic guys....It is talking about how the C-4 handles like Crap compared to a New BMW. Now, I don't mind giving credit where credit is due but....WE ARE COMPARING A C-4 TO A NEW BMW???. That's just not right. Compare a New Corvette to a New BMW if you even think there is a comparison there. You will not have my support bashing my C-4's handling then.... elevating your BMW in our Corvette Forum. The New BMW doesn't even have a horse in this race or Forum

bogus

huh?

Ok, lets try this again... 1993 Vette vs. 1993 M3... and the M3 will be right there with it.

You don't seem to be catching the main gist of this thread - that BMW makes, and has made, some of the best handling coupes (and sedans) in the world. And have been for a long long time.

Cherry6speed

The 1993 BMW wouldn't be in the race. They didn't make a M3 in 93

NocarbutaVetteforme

Now this is what I was hoping to come across during this post. The poster was comparing a 93 Vette to an 03 M3. Why not compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges? Of course 10 yrs makes room for lots of improvements so why not say my 2000 vette compared to a 90 BMW? You have to start with a level playing field when you play the game.

VR'92

Okie then 95 M3 and 95 vette then.

NocarbutaVetteforme

Although it does say something about the Vette to be comparing an 11 year old model to one that is practically new. Shows you just how good Corvettes are!

ukchevybuilder

I am not sure if there is anything to add BUT

All BMW's have a reputation for handling, the key thing is HANDLING not max lateral G. Handling is mostly about transient behaviour which is heavily influenced by damper settings and, in road cars, compliance bush design.

BMW use the Nurburgring for testing simply because it has lots of varying corners and poor surfaces so it shows up poor transient behaviour.

As I understand it the GM tradition has been more about using proving grounds and looking at absolute lateral forces.

Also good road cars can "fall apart" on a track where the lateral load limits are reached and exceeded regularly. However good a BMW or other car feels on the road it is unlikely it is running anywhere near the lateral tire load limit ( or you would be driving in an insanely unsafe manner).

One thing that is noticable on all BMW's is the large tire sections they run. Traditionally Mercedes for example had smaller tire sections. Volume base makers also tend to smaller tire sections to save money, even if that is not true on Vettes!

One way to check this is to divide the vehicle weight by the tire section ( in millimeters) and get the weight per mm of cross section.

Lay this out on a graph and you will see why cars like the Lotus Elise do well. In fairness it is also true that Lotus's handling expertise makes BMW look silly.

My own suspicion ( and I have no specific evidence ) is that BMW run large tire sections versus weight so as to get the tires lateral slip range low down where it is very linear AND they specify very high quality dampers.. This way they give a good transient response at medium lateral g ( say up to 0.6 or so) which gives the "confidence" feeling

Lastly it is probably best to ignore most track results - what matters there are big wheel arches for big tyres and lots of rollcage to stifen the frame so as to allow suspension fine tuning to work.