HC4-Vette

I'm picking up a low mileage LT1...

I'm thinking of picking up some AFR's, roller rockers, LT4 Hotcam, Headers + true duals. So, will this be enough to hang with and hopefully surpass my buddies Z06??


[Modified by HC4-Vette, 7:11 PM 6/27/2004]

tjwong

Don't forget a 52 or 58mm throttle body, for headers you may as well do long tubes. Having shorties isn't much of a gain over stock. The LT1 cars already have a true dual exhuast system, get a good Corsa or a 3" system. If you are concerned about noise go with the Corsas. A hot cam while a decent cam, there are better choices depending on your local emissions inspections programs you could go with a hotter cam. From Comp or Crane. Something in the 220 to 224 range. Just be sure what ever you get will be matched to the heads that you plan on using.

If the car is an A4 car you may also consider a set of gears and a 2800 stall convertor, if its a 6 speed a set of 3.73 or 4.10 gears gives a substaintial performance increase.

tobijohn

If one were to go with the Hot Cam, what exactly to do you feel should be done to the heads so that it does match? TIA...

Zix

You need to tell whoever ports the heads the specs of the cam, they should take care of the rest. I always liked doing it the other way though...get my heads ported, look at the flow sheet and then figure out the best cam for the heads. But either way works.

redcorvettedave

QUOTE-------------------------------------------------------
So...what bolt-ons for an LT1 to hang with a Z06
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Bolt on a Dana 44 rear if A4 with 3.73s and DR.... 2800 TC...long tube headers ...roller rockers...ram air...reprogram
4.10 gears if M6 LT headers ........this should get you some respect..you want win unless he can't drive....butr he'll know he's been in a race....at the track that is...peace

Dan Parker '96

All you mentioned plus proper tuning and you might match the Z06. That LS1/6 is damned impressive.

gears

I hung with one on my setup,and my heads arent ported radical(255 intake,180 exhaust)and I still have the stock valves.

mackeyred96

With bolts on?? No way.
The ZO6 or even a regular C5 is a far better car.

SPD DMN

I will agree with Mackey...my '94 would beat the Z06, but it would be a good fight...for a very short while . You may be able to get the peak numbers close on a dyno but the Z will have more RPM range and will be a LOT lighter than the C4. I ran 7.40's-7.60's in my '94 with a heck of a lot more than bolt-ons (not including the nitrous) and I have run a best of a 7.87 so far in the Z and I am still getting used to it.

Most bolt on LT1's and even those with mild heads and cam (not considered "bolt-ons") are not going to put up much more than 350 rw. Going with a moderate to wild heads and cam (not exactly cheap either) will net you close to the Z06 stock.

Mr Mojo

You never did say exactly if it's on the drag strip or on a road course.

Nathan Plemons

The hot cam is an excellent choice. There are certainly other cams out there that make more peak power but most of them give up a ton on the low end. Remember, racing the dyno is fun, but peak numbers don't really mean squat. I techincally make more peak horsepower than a friend's 383 but he still kills me because of the low end torque he's got.

Also the bigger you go on the cam the more you start cutting into your driveability and fuel economy. Also beweare of camshaft recomendations from the people who do the heads. Unless they have dyno numbers from the heads / cam combo they are trying to sell you, don't just take their word for it. The cam that sounds good on paper may well perform for crap in the real world. Furthermore it is very possible that the person you are talking to just "wants to see" what his dream cam will do. As such he'll quote you something outrageous and wait for the results. If you're not happy with them, said person may really not care.

Remember, everybody's definition of streetable varies greatly, but here's the simple truth of it. Keep the duration down fairly low and you'll have more low end torque and better street manners. If you raise the duration you might make more top end power, but you might also raise the engine's power band completely out of it's ability to spin.

My experience has been the following. People who mod their cars and aren't satisfied with the results have:

Too much cam
Too much fuel injector (too much carb back in the day)
Not enough tuning

Certainly get flow numbers from any set of heads you are going to go with. If you don't want to go with an off the shelf cam like the Hot Cam, get a custom grind. Just talk to us and do your research first. You can easily make more horsepower with a shorter duration higher lift cam than you will with a longer duration with lower lift, this will be usuable horsepower and you'll be more likely to pass emissions if needed as well.

Strick

If you are talking twisties, forget it. The Z06 will be in another zip code before you know it. Ask me how I know.

tobijohn

OK, this raises a good point. From previous posts we now have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done to keep up up with a Z06 in a straight line but what suspension and handling mods can be done to make the C4 competitive with it on the other kind of track? TIA...

Strick

I think it would be cheaper to buy a Z06 than to reconstruct the suspension on a C4 to match a Z06. Also, a good driving school can really help your chances of playing with the Z06s. I have not driven a C4 with coil over shocks and wonder if they work well.

dizwiz24

At the dragstrip, those mods will allow you to hang with or beat a Z06.

On the road course, forget about it.

Although I did see an excellent driver in a 96 Grand Sport (stock other than tires) beat SOME (not all) of the Z06's at a hi-performance driving school.

NavyVet

First, congratulations on the LT1 C4 you're getting. They are a great car - far better than virtually anything else you can buy for comparable money. They can also be upgraded to signfiicantly better performance. You don't mention whenher you're talking about comparabliilty with a Z06 at the drag strip, in an autocross, or on the road course.

I don't want to burst your bubble, but suggest you learn to love your LT1 and try to limit comparisons to cars with a similar performance envelope. I raced a stock LT4 in autocross & road course events for several years. I did a lot os suspension tweaks, headers, gears, etc. Then, still seeking to keep up, I built a 383 with major head work and a lot of extras - for huge $$. I still got pulled by Z06s on long straights. I was comparing my car to soemthing I shouldn't have.

I still have a dedicated '89 for autocross & road course events. When I have a good day, I can run better times than average drivers in a Z06, expecially in an autocross. On a road course, if it doesn't have really long straights, I can still stay ahead of some Z06s with 'average' drivers. However, the bottom line is that you're aiming at a car you can't compete with if facing an opponent of equal driving skill & experience. The Z06 is so completely different in chassis, suspension, and drivetrain design - all from a superior performance perspective - that you will only get depressed. Don't compare your car to a Z06, it isn't fair to yourself or your car.

BTW, I sold the '96 race car & bought a Z06 - maximum performance platform from the start & a warranty thrown in to boot If you want Z06 performance, you will throw endless money at the C4 and still ahve a C4 chassis and suspension. I suggest making your LT1 enjoyable with good exhaust, maybe some gears, and whatever makes you feel good. Then save all the money you would spend on other "enhancements" to get a Z06 some day. Hey, my Z06 will be a slug in 2006 if the rumored next generation Z06 meets the hype too! :flag

VR'92

What bolt on's do you need to make your LT-1 hang with a Z06?

You could bolt on a JATO pack. Just make sure you have it pointed with a little downforce.

sothpaw2

HC4-Vette,

Having just went to the Drags at Cecil County Dragway, and lined up against 2 Z06's (I have a picture of one) and many C5's, I can tell you from experience that the combo you mentioned will match the Z06 but I don't think you will beat them consistently. You would own C5 coupe/verts (stock).

Z06's were running 12.55-12.6's@114mph on their OEM tires.

I lined up against one with Drag radials, he ran 12.2 and I ran 12.66 @112 mph.

I lined up later against one with the stock tires, he ran 12.55@113.5mph and I ran 12.9@112.5mph. (I could not get traction in that lane--my 60 ft was 2.17 or something and his was 2.04).

My best of the day was 12.58 @ 113mph (I think it was 113--memory).

So I am close to the Z06--yet, my mods are ported heads, MILD cam (214/224 dur@050, .566 lift w/1.6 rr's), and PE exhaust, Ed wright programming. Headers and cats stock, plugs stock, ignition stock, stock waterpump. I also removed the spare tire and switched street tires to the Z06 OEM tires (F1 SC).

So if you do all that plus headers, and maybe used gapped back plugs, you should be at parity with the Z06, assuming you keep some CATS.

ANTI VENOM

Making enough power to beat a stock Z06, should not be a problem. There are many guys on this forum with over 400rwhp N/A. Some of the blown cars around here are also putting out some very impressive numbers. It really depends on what you are after. Ski, Cork, and Toy all run large cubes and run in the 10's in a C4. So do I think you can build a C4 to beat a Z06 in the 1/4, hell yes. Is it gonna cost ya, hell yes. To build a C4 to beat the Z06 in all areas, would be something. I think the trick is to build a C4 for half the money a Z06 will cost ya, and still hang with the "big boys". There is no shame in being beaten by a car that cost twice as much and has more than 10 years of technology on ya. (especially if it's a vette) Good luck.

Mad-Mic

i can attest how strong Sothpaws car runs. i've seen him trap higher at high 114's to mid 115's and with some DR's and a good 60' i think his car could break into the 11's.

with that said can we hang with Z06's? i've only raced one and come to find out it was a member on another forum's son. 01 Z06. this was back last fall early winter and we went from a 65 mph roll to 130 mph roll and believe it or not my old L98 A4 was only about 3 cars back. this was before i added Long Tube headers. we came off the exit ramp at the light and they rolled down their window and asked "WTF did i have done to my car." my response was "It's stock just exhaust work" everyone thinks TPI A4 cars can't pull hard on the top end but mine does for the most part. GM built the TPI to run hard in it's powerband. the torque pulls the car even in the top end. believe me i've had a few triple digit runs late at night

although i know i'm not there in HP but i bet i have every bit of or more RWTQ than a Z06 and when fall comes around i'll be hunting a few at the track

for A4 mods go with: K&N filter, Cut lid, TB Bypass, Long Tube Headers with no resonators, muffler eliminators, 3000 stall, trans cooler, 160 T-Stat, DR's, AFPR, and get some tuning. i think 94 and up LT cars are tunable thru LT1 edit and any dyno tuner should be able to squeeze about 20 more rwhp just from the tune. with these mods you should be easily in the mid 12's at around sea level altitude if not better. if you want more port your stock heads and go with a cam in the 224/228 duration .580ish lift and that will put you mid to high 11's but then you'll probably have to switch to a D44 rear and with 3.45's or 3.54's no stock Z06 will touch you on the straights.

M6 mods are the same except add 3.73's or 3.90's or 4.10 rear gear and hold on


[Modified by Mad-Mic, 6:58 PM 6/28/2004]