NOT-MEE

Look at what i just got today im going to put them on in the moring Im posting a pic so you can see them they are $93.00 each and they lifetime warrenty them at least thats what napa says but for the cost why not.I was going to upgrade to big brakes and i decided to wait and upgrade to c5 brakes later on .sorry for the distortion in pic i did it with my cell phone.





[Modified by crash1mac, 8:14 PM 12/16/2003]


[Modified by crash1mac, 6:40 PM 12/17/2003]

dtorc4

:cool: :thumbs:

severe-1

Nicecall! :lol:

TreyZ28

slotted and cross drilled are hardly an upgrade, maybe even a downgrade :D

looks bling though :thumbs:

DON M

Yeah, thats why they run them on those cheezy old Porches and Ferrari's. :rolleyes:

The Bus

Do they make them for 13"?

96LT1

There is a bit of a difference between the rotors Porsche and Ferrari use and the one's available for $95 - $125. Mostly they aren't drilled which weakens the rotor when it subjected to extreme use (track days).

NOT-MEE

yes they make them in 13" but thier a little higher like $164.00ea

C4Crazy787

:cool: rotor's, :thumbs: on the C6, you keeping the C4?

mn_vette

Do you have a part number that I could give the napa guys here? I need a little more breaking power, these might help and I need a new set of rotors anyway. :cheers:

NOT-MEE

http://www.napaonline.com/
NAPA United Rotor - Right Front - Hi-Perf
Usually ships within 3 to 5 days. UBP
PR86495R $ 164.00
w/ Heavy Duty Power Brakes, Right
NAPA United Rotor - Left Front - Hi-Perf
Usually ships within 3 to 5 days. UBP
PR86494L $ 164.00
w/ Heavy Duty Power Brakes, Left
NAPA United Rotor - Left Rear - Hi-Perf
Usually ships within 3 to 5 days. UBP
PR85996L $ 97.99
NAPA United Rotor - Right Rear - Hi-Perf
Usually ships within 3 to 5 days. UBP
PR85996R $ 97.99
NAPA United Rotor - Left Front - Hi-Perf
Usually ships in 24 hours. UBP
PR85997L $ 93.49
Except Heavy Duty Power Brakes
NAPA United Rotor - Right Front - Hi-Perf
Usually ships in 24 hours. UBP
PR85997R $ 93.49
Except Heavy Duty Power Brakes
and the answer is Yes Im Keeping My c4

Daniel DK

:leaving:
:jester

Strick

Let us know how they work. What kind of pads do they say to use with them?

96CollectorSport

You can get EBC slotted and dimpled or Power Slot just slotted at the tirerack for about $150 each plus shipping. I'm thinking about doing the EBC's in the spring. Just another option. :cheers:

DREGSZ

If you need more braking power change your pads, But Blank, undrilled, unslotted rotors are better then the slotted/drilled stuff.
But i suppose It would really look cool if you got gold letering for your car to go with those rotors

TreyZ28

I'm tired of explaining it so i'm going to copy paste my old letter to a magazine

Dear Mr. Fish;

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is (insert full introduction, school attending, employment ect...)

With that said most of this information is second hand and comes from (give credit to supervisors and co-workers data and such)


I noticed your article "Wagon's Whoa!" in the November 2003 issue of Super Chevy and was instantly attracted to it. It was the first article I read. To be honest, I was really hoping for measured results since my project car, a naturally aspirated, hydraulic roller 383 LT1 looking for roughly 430rwhp, is about to undergo an autocross suspension build up. Unfortunately, results were not given but hopefully there will be an update! Well, something more measured than "really well" anyway!

I found myself agreeing for the most part with your article especially regarding the extra inch of rotor diameter. An extra inch of rotor diameter on an 11 inch to 12 inch rotor provides an additional 18in2 of surface area on one side of one brake plate! That almost a sixteen percent increase in surface area!

However, the line that really caught my attention was the following:

"By switching from a single caliper to this dual piston piece, we're increasing the overall clamping force of the system, and the added surface area (along with the slot 'n holes) helps dissipate heat."

Yes, I do know this "Cross driller vs. Slotted vs. Blank Rotors" issue has been beaten to death and we will probably see a never ending roll of toilet paper before we see everyone agree on this issue. However, I feel obligated to throw my two cents in here.


Slots and cross drills are not for cooling and provide a very minimal amount of cooling. The vast majority of the cooling comes from the vents and the size of the rotor and its thickness. The vents can create some impressive air flow inside and around the rotor. The slots and holes do not have a significant amount or air flow around them. However, this can be debated since real world air flow in that region is a stab in the dark on a good day. It is pretty well agreed upon that those slots and hole do very little for cooling though. The air in there is almost stationary when compared to the vents and the air along side the rotor. The air is flowing from left to right (when looking at the rotor head on, that is looking at the wheel stud holes). Very little air is flowing from the inboard to outboard rotor plates or vice versa. The air inside the vent holes is pretty stagnant in there compared to the air along the outboard rotor and air in the vents.

The vents can work because they work like a little centrifugal fan. These vents are by far the most important part of cooling the rotor. There is actually a great deal of research being conducted as to the most efficient vent design.

In addition, the amount of surface area has probably come close to tripling or even quadrupling with these vents when compared to a solid rotor. There are now two more surfaces in the middle and the additional surface area of the 4 surfaces of the vent.

If I had to guess, I would bet that there is very little air flow inside the wheel well to begin with- and particularly under sports cars relative to most other cars and trucks. The low stance an air dam really should do a good job of making sure air doesn't go crazy under there. This is another reason why vents are so useful.

With cross driller and/or slotted rotors, pad to rotor contact is also demised. To generalize and state the obvious, less frictional surface is a bad thing. Also, with holes, material is obviously taken out. This leaves less thermal mass and hence less metal to absorb heat. Result? More tendencies towards brake fade.

Overall, I would be hard pressed to say cross drilling or slotting rotors will increase braking capabilities on a street car. Rotor strength is most defiantly compromised since holes are drilled after the rotor has been cast in most applications. Porsche is the only company I would suspect might actually cast holes into their rotors.


These slots and holes were originally introduced in an effort to release gasses that build up under high heat and pressure of panic stops "back in the day." With the pads used in today's vehicles, there are EXTREMLY little gasses produced, if any at all. If there is any, it's pretty much negligible. The only time you have any chance of producing gasses is during extremely competitive and elongated racing, nothing most readers would see. A good way to see find out if you are out gassing is to make several high speed stop and then go smell your brakes. Out gassing will usually create an odor. If you smell anything, you are probably using cheap brake pads!

In this long winded response, I kind hoped to get at the following. Slotted and cross drilled are really only good for appearance modifications. If anything they will probably warp and/or crack faster with all things being equal such as plate thickness and diameter- and I going to go out on a limb and say they are.

Here are a few suggestions to increase braking capabilities:

Cooling Ducts: An "Air Ram" for your rotors if you will. This will aid in cooling the inboard brake plate, the one that needs it the most. It sees the least air flow and more importantly, does not have the rotor hat to act as a heat sink. Some vehicles come with cooling ducts from the factory. The Z06 stands out in my mind.


Tires: Stickier tires will allow for a greater braking force without locking up the wheel or engaging ABS. This is very good thing, basically extend your max braking capabilities since your maximum braking capability is directly related to the friction between the tire and the road. If the force of friction of the braking system is greater than the force of friction between the road and tire, lockup occurs. This is why braking capability is greatly reduced in rain and snow, with such little friction between the road and tire it is much easier to lock the wheel up.

Front vs. rear brakes: In most vehicles about 60% of the vehicle's weight is up front. About 70% when the car nose dives. That is why front brakes are the big problem. It is entirely possible to have the rear brakes lock up since there is almost no weight on them and have the front brakes struggling. Just another reason to shoot for better weight distribution. (These numbers do not apply to trucks where there might actually be rear brake bias) This leads to the next suggestion.

Shocks/suspension: Stiffer suspension means less nose dive which means less "work" for the front brakes. Better weight distribution under braking basically.

Pads: Cheap effective way to increase braking capabilities. Certain pads work better under extreme conditions and poorly under normal conditions. Stay away from these unless you road race and heat them up (if called for obviously) before you go out there if possible. It would be extremely difficult to attain these conditions driving normally. Choose the proper pad for your application.

Please, feel free to agree, disagree or comment.


Also


This morning before going to class, I decided to look at Baer's website to see if they offered any information about cross drilling rotors.

Taken from their website FAQ directly:
"Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.

Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings."

The following information was taken directly off Wilwood's FAQ:

"Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.

Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value. Wilwood has a large selection of drilled and slotted rotors for a wide range of applications. "

I thought this would make for some intresting reading, as well as vaidating my opinions of coarse!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


His responce

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trey --
Thanks for forwarding your thoughts and comments. In today's world of enthusiast publishing, the editorial and advertising balance is more delicate than ever. Often times, sales reps are forced to negotiate a "story for ad" program, where the advertiser gets a tech story supporting his product line in exchange for spending dollars on an ad campaign. I can certainly understand the cross-drilled and slotted rotor theories you provided. However, there are times where some of our editorial "slants" are dictated by the particular advertiser in question. If they promote their product as offering additional cooling, they expect us to promote it in the same way.

Thanks for reading, and it's great to know there are talented car guys out there among our institutions of higher learning.

Randy Fish
Senior Editor
Super Chevy Magazine
(xxx) xxx-xxxx

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They are only slotted and cross drilled to make silly people smile :)

BAM92

You can call me silly. :D I used to have them on both my Porsches and will one day have them on my vette too. :) Oh and by the way, nice post. :thumbs:


[Modified by BAM92, 7:09 PM 12/17/2003]

NOT-MEE

I put thier carbon/ceramic Metlalic pads lifetime warrenty on them also.You know what anything is better than the warped rotors i had on my car before today.I upgraded the pads it stops better now.If i just did it for cosmetics so be it .Hey and i also got to clean the inside of my wheels.



[Modified by crash1mac, 6:40 PM 12/17/2003]

NOT-MEE

They are not gold their is no BLING BINLG in My corvette :U


[Modified by crash1mac, 6:42 PM 12/17/2003]

lallend

Very informative post TreyZ28! :thumbs: