HOZZ4

Hey everybody.

I appreciate everyone's interest in our Opti-Direct system. We haven't even finished our website yet, and you guys have already found us! I just wanted to clear up some questions that we have been getting.

Currently, we have about 2 dozen Opti-Direct (Stage 1) systems in stock for immediate shipment. They can be ordered for Corvettes as well as F-Bodies and Impalas (and other B-bodies). Included in the complete Stage 1 package is:

Delteq Opti-Box
New Delphi Northstar V8 Ignition Module
4 New Ignition Coils
Complete bolt-on kit for the coilpack (bolts to driver's side valve cover)
Fully-Terminated Sealed Wiring Harness (no cuts or splices to factory harness)
Custom length spark plug wires (8mm silicon w/ carbon core)
Spark Plug Wiring Labels
Detailed Instructions

The Stage 1 system does away with the cap & rotor from the Opti-Spark. It uses the stock Opti Signals to drive the Opti-Box, which then drives the Coilpack. Unfortunately, I don't have any good pictures of the installed system (we are taking some today). But to summarize, the Opti-Box installs in place of the factory coil (front of driver's side cylinder head), the coilpack is on the driver's side valve cover, and the wiring harness ties everything together. Very simple installation, really. You don't need to access the Opti Spark at all (except to pull the plug wires off). This kit is $667.25

We also offer a "Bare-Bones" Opti-Direct system. This includes the Opti-Box, coil bracketry, wiring harness, and instructions. However, the ignition module and coils will need to be sourced, and the spark plug wires will need to be made. This kit is $347.65


As for the Stage 2 system, look for beta testing in February or March. At this point, we will offer a free upgrade to the Stage 2 system to the first 10 people who purchase a Stage 1 system within the next month and would like to participate in the beta testing. Full production pieces should be available in April.

So what's in the stage 2 upgrade?
A steel trigger wheel and a hall-effect sensor assembly. Hall Effect sensors work by sensing magnetic flux differences...unlike an optical sensor, which sense when something blocks its line of sight to the emitter. The Hall Effect advantage is that it can not be falsely triggered by dirt, water, etc...
The upgrade will be $170 when available.


Again, I really appreciate everyone's interest. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.

Best regards,

Pete Visser
Mechanical Engineer
Delteq
(703)476-3566
pvisser@***.net http://www.delteq.com

Tom Piper

The stage 2 sensor is Hall Effect -- nice choice.

With the stage 1 system, it sounds like the original Opti-Spark system could be left in place (except the wires would have to be pulled off of the spark plugs) as a backup -- probably would look a little messy with extra spark plug wires there.

Since others may want to know the answer to these questions, I am posting my questions here:
1) Does the original GM ECM/PCM still determine the advance/knock retard of the spark or is this a function of the new module?
2) Are Northstar coils "smart coils" (as I undrerstand the LS1 coils are) that determine the "dwell" time of the coil independent of the Delteq ignition module, or is the dwell time determined in the ignition module?
3) The front of the cylinder head is a relatively harsh environment for electroncs -- that's where the OEM coil module lives and has proven reliable there. Has Delteq done enough testing to determine the Delteq electronics can live in this environment?
4) Since the original Opti-Spark case is used for the stage 2 system, there is still the bearing to wear out. Can the stage 2 sensor, once it has been installed in an Opti-Spark, be taken out and installed in other Opti-Sparks?
I have several old "carbon tracked" Opti-Sparks that could be put back into service, if the bearing failed in my original stage 2 conversion.

Thanks


Tom Piper


[Modified by Tom Piper, 9:47 AM 12/9/2003]

Strick

Hi Pete, Welcome to our forum. Your Opti-Direct system sounds quite interesting. I'm looking forward to the pictures. My question is simple compared to Piper's, Can you wash your engine with your system or do we have the same moisture problems of the ole Opti-spark? Keep up the good work. :lurk:

HOZZ4

To answer your questions:

YES, the stock ECM is still controlling knock retard and ignition advance. We do not modify these signals in any way.

The ignition module determines the dwell time. Since the coils are bolted directly to the module, I guess the whole "coilpack" assembly could be referred to as a "smart" system :)

Yes, the front of the engine is not a fun place to be. Some test procedures used to validate our confidence on placing the unit there:

Thermal cycling up to 300F with no observed faults.
MIL-spec circuit board construction
ultra-high temperature adhesives and circuit board encapsulent
1000's of miles of road testing with both production style units AND UNSEALED "raw" circuit boards without a failure!

YES, the stage 2 sensor can be removed and reinstalled.
As for the stage 2 trigger wheel, preliminary testing shows that the screws that hold the stock rotor will hold our steel trigger wheel (we haven't had one break yet). BUT, I am not 100% confident yet. It may require either a metal adhesive to help the screws or some small tack welds to hold it to the hub. In either case, the wheel can be ground off.

Thanks,
Pete

HOZZ4

NO moisture problems with the Opti-Box or the ignition module. They are both sealed units, and the wiring harnesses are completely sealed as well.

thanks,
Pete

HOZZ4

Oh, by the way...to address you statement about being able to leave the stock opti-spark plug wires in tact...

In our early testing (when we weren't sure if the test units would flake out), we did just this. We only had to switch back to the stock system once, though (thankfully!)...

-Pete

bogus

One thing to be sure of - make certian that you check the harness of a 92 Vette... the Opti diag port is different than on the later motors...

Tom Piper

Pete,

Thanks for the answers.

I have one more question on the stage 2 system.
I know some of this may be considered a "trade secret", so I understand if you can't answer it.

For the ignition, since there are 4 coils, I am assuming it is a "waste spark" system. To me, this means the ignition doesn't really need to know which "cycle" (end of the compression or exhaust stroke) the cylinder is on.

As far as the fuel injection, the '92 to '93 batch fire systems fire each injector for every cylinder once each revolution (two times for combustion event). But, the injectors for a sequential system are fired once (which may span two revolutions of the cranskshaft) per combustion event.
This tells me your stage 2 system has to be simulatiing the OEM Opti-Spark signals pretty closely to allow accurate fuel injection timing.

The original Opti-Spark low-res signal varies in pulse width to accomplish cylinder identification. Does the Hall-Effect sensor do this too? Any other comments would be appreciated in this area.

Thanks

Tom Piper

HOZZ4

Hey Tom,

With the stage 2 kit, we output the identical signal that the factory ECM normally sees from the Opti sensors. That being said, the trigger wheel does not share the same tooth pattern as the stock opti. The high resolution profile is 90 teeth instead of 360, and the low resolution profile is very similar to the stock low res profile. We then do a simple electronic signal processing calculation (inside the stage 2 Opti box)to generate the stock high and low res signals.

HOZZ4

Are you referring to the port on the passenger valve cover? We have a 1992 shop manual, and it lists this connector as a 5-pin. However, the 1992's I have seen have the standard 4-pin that all the other LT1's use. Is this an "early" 1992 thing? If so, we will fab up some harnesses specifically for the 92's.

That brings up a good point...our 1992 coil brackets require standoffs to be used with the aluminum valve covers. You can either fab up some small spacres on a lathe or stack up some washers. You will need longer bolts as well.

If the demand is sufficient, we will create a kit specifically for the 92's.

lone73

Does this hall effect setup affect spark scatter any? That was one of the big advances in using a 360 position wheel according to the optispark article by Hib Halverson, spark scatter was reduced to at least one degree and I think less than - have to read it again.
thanks
dr

Tom Piper

Pete

I have a '92 that I converted to a '95 Opti-Spark.

The '92 has a physically different connector under the right fuel injector cover(the pinouts are the same though, except the '92 has a shield around the wiring that connects through the extra pin).
I had to get the Opti-Spark electrical extension harness for the later Opti-Spark and put the connector from my old cable on it. It was simply a matter of ejecting the pins from the new harness connnector and putting them into the old connector housing (pin for pin) without the shield.

Tom Piper

HOZZ4

DavidR

I think I know the article you are talking about, and I do have a couple of points to add myself...

First, the Opti Spark is attached to the camshaft, not the crankshaft. The last time I installed a new GM LT1 timing chain, there was at least 2-4 degrees of slop in it (measured at the cam). Since there is no way to tension the timing chain, I can only assume that the cam is able to chatter back and forth a bit. I am sure that under acceleration, this is pretty minimal due to the rotational inertia of the cam & cam gear. Still, there is potential for 1-2 degrees of timing error measured at the crank strictly from the mechanical design.

Second, the difference in spark scatter between a 360-tooth and a 90-tooth cam-driven trigger wheel can not be seen on a timing light. Since the 90-tooth setup we plan on using for the stage 2 system can be compared to a 45-tooth crank trigger, you can prove this by taking a timing light to an LS1 (24-tooth), a new Ford (36-tooth) or a Cadillac Northstar (24 tooth as well). The spark scatter present on these engines will not be visible to the human eye using a timing light. Physically, this means that these systems are running with less than 2 degrees (or better) of scatter. One other drawback to the three systems I just mentioned is that they do not use the trigger wheel for just speed (as we do with the Stage 2 system). ..they also use it for position. This means that there are actually missing teeth during which the ECM does not get an actual update on engine position! Our 90-tooth wheel does not have missing teeth.

How accurate does the ignition timing need to be? I am sure there are NASCAR dyno-heads out there that will say that 1/8 degree of timing accuracy makes the difference between passing and getting passed in the straights, but in reality, one is hard-pressed to see a huge difference in power output from these infinitesimal timing changes. an interesting sidenote is that I once heard a respected NASCAR engine builder make a claim that a particular ignition part was "good for 1 horsepower." One horsepower? On a 700+HP engine? Am I missing something, or did he just claim to measure a 0.1% increase in power? There is no dyno I know of that is that accurate...and even if there was, there would be too many other variables in the equation to make that kind of statement.

The bottom line here is that I can guarantee that electronic error-generated spark scatter (that can only be measured on an oscilloscope) will be less that 1/3 of a degree. If there is one point I would like to make clear though, it is that the spark scatter caused by electronic error is not always the only source...sometimes mechanical issues play a part as well (i.e. timing chain slop)!

Thanks,
Pete

HOZZ4

Thanks for the tech on the '92 Opti connector, Tom. I will gauge the demand on the 92's then take a plan of action to remedy our harnesses for those vehicles. More than likely, I will probably just put together a "1992 Vette" kit that includes the valve cover bolt spacers to mount the coil pack, and two electrical connectors to use in place of the 1992's.

My gut feeling is that not all the 92's had that. Any backup on that statement?

tjwong

I just spoke with Pete, and got a lot of information from him. It seems that this is going to be a great Opti replacement. I like the fact that it utilizes a GM ignition pak and coil arrangement from a Northstar engine. These ignition systems are very robust and has a very low failure rate. Having a single point mounting for a 4 coil pak/module unit is going to make mounting a system a lot easier than having to mount 8 individual coils.

Another advantage that one will have when Delteq gets into full swing of operation is that with their sensors and interface I can adapt a 94/95 F or Y body PCM into a L98 series engine and then it would have full SFI control and a flash programable PCM. Meaning no more erasing and programming proms :) And of course more Hp and better fuel milage :)

Tom Piper

My '92 was first titled in June of '92.

My guess is it came off the assembly line in about March or April.

Tom Piper

lone73

tjwong
wouldn't you still have to mount the Deltech style opti onto the cam at the front of the engine to have the proper signal to feed the ECM? I don't understand how you could provide that signal on an L98 without it. Will it mount up to an L98? I'd bet not.

HOZZ4:
I think Hib in that article was probably comparing the Optispark with the old L98 style ignition system as the basis for improvement. I agree that it probably doesn't HAVE to be as accurate as it is or an L98 motor wouldn't run :) .I think the improvement was mainly intended to give tighter control for better emissions, improved idle and to allow the motor to operate closer to the edge of detonation for more power. I take it your test car is not seeing any extra timing retard under any particular conditions compared to a stock setup?
thanks
dr

tjwong

Peter told me that their hall effect sensors that are being used in their OPTI replacement kit willl be offered as a kit to retrofit DIS into a L98 style engine. So these same sensors couple to a OPTI replacemnt box will be able to send the low and high res signals to the PCM.

The same hall effect sensors will be installed some kind of housing with a drive assembly thats driven like a distributor by the cam effectively doing the same as an OPTI being driven on the front of the camshaft. As with an L98 it has to have an oil pump drive. This device would sort of resemble a MSD cam sync plug and would replace the original HEI distributor. It will not have any plug wires connected to it as the wires will come from a single 4 coil/module pack which would be the same as what is offered now for the LT1 engines.

This has already been done. Some ingenious guy removed the optical sensors from a Opti and somehow mounted the parts into a large body HEI distributor. It used with an older 93 model ECM with a removable prom for control while not as efficient as a 94/95 PCM it worked well. This was done in a S truck V8 conversion. I stumbled upon it during a internet site search for S truck LT1/4 V8 conversions.




[Modified by tjwong, 8:05 PM 12/9/2003]

Tom Piper

Sounds like a good idea to get multi-coil capability on an engine with the distributor normally mounted at the back.

But, even though it is an improvement, you still have one extra gear-coupling (cam gear to oil pump drive gear), with some clearance, that allows more spark-scatter. Supposedly, the cam to Opti-Spark mating does not have this problem.


Hey Pete

What do you think of a kit that uses a trigger wheel on the crankshaft for the high res pulse while still using the cam mounted Opti-Spark (or rear distributor mounted Opti-sensor on the L98) for the low-res pulse?
Scatter for the low-res pulse is not nearly as critical as scatter for the high-res pulse.
If I understand the Opti-signals correctly, you wouldn't even need a keyed hub or find TDC to accomplish this, although a keyed hub would be nice. This is why you don't have to set initial timing on the Opti-Spark like you do on an L98 -- it's self calibrating.
Of course, this is assuming on the L98 you are using an LT1 ECM.

By putting the high-res sensor on the crankshaft, you would have a much larger diameter (damper diameter vs rotor diameter) to get 180 teeth with 360 pulses (a pulse on each rising and each falling signal from the sensor). This way you would not need to compute the remaining pulses, which would mean less electronics.

Tom Piper


[Modified by Tom Piper, 7:14 AM 12/10/2003]

HOZZ4

Well without giving too much away about soon-to-be-released products... :)

Basically, the option of mounting the hi-res wheel to the crank was agonized over for a long time. However, since the LT1's do not have keyed harmonic dampers, the high-res wheel could potentially spin in relation to the low res wheel on the cam. I have actually seen this happen on a crank-triggered LT1 with an aftermarket engine controller. And even though we wouldn't have a huge problem with the movement of the crank wheel conceptually (since the cam wheel would be used for engine position), there is the potential for a serious "instantaneous" spark error between low-res updates.

As for our L98/LB9 (& earlier) & Vortec truck package coming down the pipeline, I can't get too specific about that. However, I can say that we are leaning toward coil-per-plug. We are also going to offer some some of crank trigger option since these engines used keyed dampers.

As for the L98/LB9, I will be installing a prototype in the coming weeks on my own 1992 Z28 (LB9 305 TPI)...and I will post pictures this time!

Thanks,
Pete