larrybsp

Let me start by saying I have a C4 with a DRM C5 front brake kit. I use the car at open track events and have run some SCCA races with it. I am fed up with replacing rotors that crack every other event posing the danger of exploding on me at 130 mph. I am fed up with brake calipers that clamshell
and wear out $150 worth of brake pads in a day. I am fed up with bleed screws that after half a dozen bleedings wear so badly you can't use a vacuum bleeder because they suck air. Now some of you may argue that I'm not using the brakes for their intended purpose, street driving. There are many places in this country where people drive fast on mountainous terrain
subjecting the brakes to far more stringent use, i.e. on a twisty mountain road your on the brakes every 100 yards whereas on the track you use them maybe 8 to 10 times in 3 miles with a cool down (ducting) between applications. I know I am not alone. I have heard nothing but complaints about GM C5 rotors from the day the car was introduced. Thanks GM for crap Brazillian rotors cast from used "Carnivale" beer caps.

To expedite matters I am suing them in small claims court in California to recover my expenses ($5000 limit) in having to replace defective and dangerous parts. By using small claims court I won't have to face a wall of $2000 suited GM lawyers.

My actions are intended to make a point to Gm that they can't sell crap to ther buyer of a $50,000 car and then snub their nost thae problem
and stiff the customer.

I am asking your help. If you can find the time E-mail me, Larry Stark. larrybsp@aol.com with a brief description of your C5 rotor or caliper horror stories. I will present these to the court to prove I am not some nut case acting on my own. Your help would be appreciated.

Larry

:mad :mad :mad :mad

Mervz

i think the fact that you're using parts on a car that they were never intended to be used on might be a huge hole in your case... :)

scorp508

:chill:

Mervz

larry, if you are truely serious, i wouldn't bring printed emails to court. They won't be accepted as evidence. You need witnesses, or noterized letters with proof of experances and repair recepits from other people.

I don't think you have a case, sorry. Nothing personal :)

86Coupe

Are you a certified mechanic with credentials that enable you to install this equipment according to the GM guidelines for installation? Most brake and safety system products are accompanied by small print saying they are to be only installed by a certified professionals. If not, then it becomes irrelevant to the judge that it may be crappy product, because you shouldn't be installing it yourself anyway.

If you are certified, or had it installed by someone that is certified, then try it, worse that can happen is they tell you it was not intended for the purpose you are using it for and send you on your way. Best that can happen is you win.

Keep us updated

all4c4lt4

You didn't emphasize huge enough...

Z-PDX

This reminds me of the radio talk show, "Handel on the law"

The host, a very entertaining lawyer, promises "marginal legal advice, where he tells you that you have absolutely no case."

So here I am, an amateur lawyer (although lots of court time), telling a stranger on the internet:

"You have absolutely no case." Because you don't.

You have a couple of problems:

1) When suing a corporation, even in small claims. You will get attorneys. Lots of them and they WILL shred you. Who is GM going to send instead of lawyers. You think they are going to dig up Mr. GM to represent himself here?

You are right on one count. They will show up wearing $2000 suits.


2) You have modified the product from its original intent.

3) Racing will generally void all warranties

4) You have no factual basis for your lawsuit. Your claim seems to be unsafe product? Prove it... You can't.

5) A little hint. Resist the urge to draw the comparision between mountain roads and track racing. The speeds are so much different as to make any comparisons laughable. Heat generated / required to dissipate increases exponentially as speed increases linearly. The $2K suit guys will shred you on this.

6) And finally, no matter how many emails you get from other members, you WILL come across in court as a nut case acting on your own.

7) Racing is expensive, parts break and cost lots of money. Get used to it.

I do wish you the best of luck, however. I'm sure you think I'm a jerk and the nut case now, but let's just see what happens in a month or so after your little trial.

-Z

bogus

This is why companies like Brembo exist.

Factory brake parts are designed for the street. You have no leg to stand on in court.

If this was happening to a street car? on the street? on the car they were intended for? you would be getting a recall notice.

ericcer

It is not just the C5s. It is a problem with the fbodies as well.

Goody

:iagree: I will stipulate that I agree emphatically on this!! If you want to race your car then stop whinning and buy the RACE brakes made by Brembo, ALCON and many others that are engineered for that purpose.
Street brakes are meant to perform in a different environment than race brakes. You will only embarass yourself further and wasting time by attempting to do this.
How many real race teams use factory brakes systems to stop their cars? NONE. Why, because they know that they aren't designed for that purpose. There is a reason those big brake kits cost the prices that they do. You are finally learning an expensive lesson about racing. :nopity

luvmy92

You really have no business using those calipers/rotors in high speed events. I would strongly recommend to anyone interested in this kind of driving to use brakes/rotors built for their proper application. Look at Wilwood, Brembo, Baer and the like, and you won't be disappointed.

Regardless, I wish you the best of luck...

Mike

bogus

And the fwd sedans... eating rotors like crazy.

In short, GM rotors SUCK.

Get Baer.

QuikZilver

:banghead: When I saw this heading I starting banging my head against the wall. I am going to C5 brakes on the front of my Vette. I thought, great, so much for that idea! Phew! It is about racing with C5 brakes on a C4. So, my project will continue.

I agree with what others have already stated. The warranty on automotive parts is normally void if you are racing or using the vehicle like a taxi. Parts manufacturers are very consious about putting this stipulation on their warranty information. Heck, even the race part manufacturers don't give warranties on most of their parts. Reason: The parts get beat to death. Good luck with your suit.
:cheers:

vetracer

:iagree:

I went through exactly what you did and ended up spending over $10k for Baer's 6-piston front and 4-piston rear Alcon brakes. Problem solved. If you want to run like the big boys, you'll have to just spend the $$ for the right equipment. I guess suing corporations has just become the way a growing number of people solve problems in California, that's part of the reason so many businesses are leaving. (And I knew that long before Arnold said it) I'll add that you are looking up a dead horses azz if you think you'll get anything from GM, all bets (and liabilities) are OFF if you use them for racing, you yourself stated you are reaching speeds of 130 MPH which is twice the legal speed limit anywhere except rural interstate highways and further, they weren't even original equipment on your car! :jester
Are you going to sue DRM, too? I think you'll HAVE to if you want to sue GM, they sold you the calipers to begin with.
Good luck.


[Modified by vetracer, 3:03 PM 10/23/2003]

Aggravated4life

Just dont be suprised if they(GM) countersue big time...trust me,they will.I agree GM's Brakes and calipers are not the best and I would not use them for any form of racing.Heck they dont last that long on the street with my cars but it also has alot to do with the way I drive as well.

I simpathize with ya,but dont feel you have a case that can actually win.
If you had a C5 that had constant brake failure on the streets and so did the others,then you could make a class action suit.But until then,cut your losses and move on to better race parts.

Good Luck!!

:cheers:

vinnies87

:iagree: To play with the big dogs, you have to pay the big dogs...

Coupe89

I GM parts are for street use, not intended for racing...

:crazy: :iagree: :chill:

85 Dave

It's not just C5 rotors and calipers that aren't suitable for racing. All manufacturers are unsuitable, with the possible exception of Porsche. But then again they get their calipers and rotors from Brembo. Hmmm....there's a thought. Maybe you should try using RACING brakes when you go RACING.

STEVEN13

Hi,

maybe I don't know what I am doing, but I also race (Time Trial)my 1992 C-4 with Stock Rotors and calipers-however, I use Hawk Blue pads front and rear. The top speed I reach @Pocono (North)is 116MPH. So far it seems okay. I check my brakes and bleed them for every race. I go to about 4 event a year.

One more thing-I also drive to and from the Track (approx 300mi)

I am not being a wiseguy just my 2 cents.

Good Luck,

Steven

reallycoolcorvette

:lol: