vette_tweak

The topic sort of originated from this thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zero...=600111&page=1
(Ski, sorry for going off topic in your thread )

I'm trying to decide what intake to settle with on my 420CID engine. I'm making 432.5 RWHP @ 6200RPM and 417 RWTQ @ 4200 RPM with a miniram (MR), ambient temp = 90 DEG C, 6 Spd Car.

Other are making similar HP with the superram (SR) at about 5200RPM.

I can't find flow or RPM band data for the stealthram (STR) or an EFI'd victor jr ( EVJ ).

Can someone post any relevent STR or EVJ data? :cheers:

0ski_dwn_it

Not a problem at all :cheers: Its a good discussion to have...

My take on it is this. There are few if any SR motors in the 10s. Corkvette and I are probably about as close as you can get, but neither of us are there yet :cry I suspect by fall end, one of us will be there. From my two dynoruns...peak numbers aside, the SR is done at 5100RPM. Yet the TQ is still way way up there. I think, don't have my stuff infront of me here, that the TQ only dropped off about 50-60ft-lbs through the entire power range. So that is a HUGE benefit from the SR. But I think it really limits the HP numbers.

Furthermore, I really am seeing that the SR is impervious to the AFR. I mean it can change alot, and so can the tune and the number just stay steady. Its really crazy. Maybe that is why its such a killer setup.

I believe that when Corky, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, but when he had his SR and Manifold ported out, the guy at total air flow said that the LS1 intakes were the best for flow....maybe I have that mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that is the one he named. So maybe a conversion to that would be helpful for some of us SR guys with bigger CI engines.

A carb setup would be awesome to try...and anyone donating to the finding of information, I will gladly be the test mule! :cheers:

I have been hearing really good things also about the Stealth Ram. It seems to make some serious power and doesn' loose the TQ.

Minirams...would have to have too many other mods to make worth while...gears, converter, low TQ on the street :nonod:....No thanks.
There a guy I know over on the TGO with a miniram/406 setup. It think the best he's gotten YTD is an 11.7 or 8. So I am not figuring he's been able to mustar nearly the power we are getting and I know the TQ has to also be way down. This is also a SD car.

These are just my thoughts on the different setups. If I had to switch right now it would either be the Victor or the stealth....call me crazy but for my current setup those choices are the most economical and the ones I think would yeild the best results.

Open to discussion.. :cheers: :thumbs: :lurk:

reallycoolcorvette

That is pretty silly of you to say...seeing how on your setup you swapped to a DANA 44 (new gears), a new torque converter...all high performance cars swap this stuff in anyway. But maybe you are biased towards the SuperRam?

And low torque on the street? Come on....like a 400+ cube motor with a good size cam makes low torque on the street....

:rolleyes:

vette_tweak I think your heads are too big...that is why the torque is down...IMO.

pablocruise

I just have preliminary SOTP info on the STR,

391 stroker, AFR 210's, 242*/248* cam

I can tell you it breathes like crazy! I don't have actual numbers, but they are somewhere in the archives. Watch the RPM's they will zing right up real fast!

Anyways, motor has approx 600 miles on it now but it's coming back out next week. Some ring problems and other issues. If they get it right the second time, I can go ahaed and do some real tuning and get real info.

0ski_dwn_it

Reallycoolvette,

I think you read into my post too much, or not enough maybe.

I was talking about for myself to switch over to a miniram now. My opinion is the swap for my now would not be economical. Really when discussing this stuff you can only speak for your own setups point-of-view.

After already spending 1300( another 300-400 for gears etc) for rear + 750 for TC I can't imagine justifying spending it again.

I think its pretty standard practice to stick with the SR intake for autos, and minis for manual trannies.

And to address your low torque comment. Low torque in the sence that I think your will be hard pressed to find a miniram setup that only looses about 60 ft-lbs through the power RPM range. Hence the reason you need gears to get any performance out of the miniram.

I am bias towards the SR since thus far its great for both HP and TQ.

I know of serval 400+ setups that are running mini rams on the TGO that are chasing us, trying to get the numbers that Corky and I have, and they are yet to get within .5 sec and 6 MPH of us.

For the street, I don't think there is any doubt that the SR is a better intake. How many times on the street are you at 4500+ RPM for any appreciable time? I will take the 480+ft-lbs of TQ at 3400 RPM anyday for driving excitement. Over a few more HP up high. And that is with still being able to run 3.07 gears. So you can imagine what 1 and 2 gears are like with the mechanical advantage coupled with a good converter. :crazy:

But on the other hand if I had a manual tranny, I would probably have a miniram now.

A person has to determine what they "want" out of the car. :cheers:

loiq

Judging from data I've seen and taking into account cost, Personally i would start with the LT1 Intake conversion (for an L98 which I assume the post is in reference to). Heck you're only out $600 at the MOST with the conversion and if it gives you what you need, great. If not, theres still room in the wallet for the STR. Just my .02. :seeya

mos90

from what ive been reading the Lt1 conversion is not as good as miniram. its kind of the same design for miniram will get more hp/tq. plus it a lot of work.

jburnett

What kind and how much data do you want on the single plane... I've run the SR, the MR, and the converted Super Victor each on different combinations. A ported SR will run out of air by 5800 everytime on a 383 and lower on a larger motor (particularly a larger bore). The MR you can rev til you can't see straight and it's a good manifold for those motors that make a ton of torque to begin with because it doesn't hurt them nearly as much... However, they do require some porting for their true potential (go ask tpi421Vette). The biggest problem with the SR and MR IMO is that they are EXTREMELY camshaft sensitive... The SR DOES NOT like long duration and the MR CAN'T STAND overlap! You take the tuned runner effect out of the SR when you start going with a lot of duration; they're actually similar to the LS1 intakes in that they would rather have more lift and less duration; do that and you'll be surprised at how well a SR will run.

A converted single plane will generally have very similar power characteristics as the same piece with a carb; however the BSFC will be much lower and the torque curve will generally be fatter and flatter. For a serious effort I wouldn't use anything else except maybe a sheetmetal piece but I'm too damn tired to build one and the single plane makes enough power for me. I have some flow data somewhere on all three and if I have time to dig it up I will do so...
-Jeb
PS- 'Ski...A single plane will put you in the 10's QUICKLY...I've got one I'll LOAN you temporarily (unless you just CAN'T bring yourself to send it back, which is likely)...You're on your own for the t.b. adaptor and the fuel rail fittings (they're AN right now).


[Modified by jburnett, 4:14 PM 7/15/2003]

0ski_dwn_it

Jeb,

Nice comments...I would like to see as much info as you can dig up. I entirely agree with everything you said. :cheers:

Oh how how tempting you are!

I am not at all familiar with the necessary changes that I would need to make to get it to work properly. Maybe that can become part of the discussion here as well. Since it would be a hurdle for someone concidering such a swap.

Do you have pictures of it? :cheers:


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 11:23 AM 7/15/2003]

jburnett

It's the same manifold that's in the thread on the single plane...It's been tossed around a bit the last few days. If you'll send me your email address I'll send you a couple of pics.

What's required to swap it is another story...I'll get into that a little later; I gotta get off this damn computer and go build a liquid/air intercooler coolant tank. I'll try and post all this stuff in another thread tonight...
-Jeb

0ski_dwn_it

OK thanks! :cheers:

mos90

jburtett. you say the m/r doesnt like overlap. so what lobe separation does it like? 112?? like the tpsi zz409?

jburnett

Yeah....I wouldn't go below 112 unless it's a seriously mild cam and then I'd only go to 110...I just pulled a Comp out of a MR 420" that was 220-230 on a 110 and it had bad reversion...
-Jeb

mos90

zz409 is 226/226 520/520 112 is this ok for m/r

Terry@TPiS

FastBurn Head Mini-Ram 360 Ci motor, ZZ-409, 6" rods, GM FastBurn Heads, 11:1 C/R, 1.5 Ratio Roller Rockers, 52mm Throttle Body.

RPM Torque lb/ft Horsepower
2500 378 179
2700 386 198
2900 398 220
3100 406 239
3300 416 261
3500 419 279
3700 416 261
3900 419 311
4100 418 326
4300 425 348
4500 435 373
4700 442 396
4900 435 405
5100 437 424
5300 433 437
5500 420 440
5700 411 447
5900 400 450
6100 396 460
6200 388 458

4.060 Bore, 4 Bolt main early 2 piece seal block w/ARP main studs, align honed, zero decked. Stock cast 3.480 stroke crank magnafluxed, polished, oil holes chamfered, stock main and rod bearing sizes.

Manley Sportmaster 6.00 inch full floating forged rods, Ross Forged 2 valve releif pistons, Speed Pro Moly rings, 11:1 C/R, ZZ-409 cam 226/226 .520/.520 112lsa, Comp Cams Pro Magnum 1.5 roller rockers, GM Fastburn aluminum heads, Mini-Ram III Fastburn style intake, 24# injectors, 52mm Throttle Body.


378lbs/ft of torque at 2500RPM, and it's not even a stroker motor. Do you still think a manual trans/deep gear combo is required?

I beleive PEAK torque on an LT1 car was 330lbs/ft, and they came with automatics, and 2.73 rear gearing from the factory.

Bottom line is runner length, a shorter runner will make more RPM, and RPM is HP, this is why GM went to the short runner with the LT1. The TPI long runner design is more geared for a 305 motor, running it on a stroker motor will make a nice tow truck motor. Or off road/marine application where RPM is not needed or used.

And it's also a personal preference issue, one person may never see more than 5000 RPM with their driving style, and another may want to rev as high as possible. On a 350ci motor this debate is more of an issue, but with a 377+ci motor I say Mini-Ram all the way!

Of course I am looked at as biased on the subject, but non the less had to share.
:steering:

loiq

I remember a guy posted pics of his Accel single plane fuel injection setup withe the Lingenfelter throttle body adapter. I couldn't find his post but I think Scorp knows him... :confused:

If I remember right the guy swapped his Super Ram for the single plane. He'd be a good guy to find if possible.

0ski_dwn_it

I'm assuming those are Flywheel HP/TQ numbers....

And I guess the question about a manunal transmission was directed at me...If you want to race the car and have any kind of decent results...Yeah you will need gears. Because if those numbers, which I would say they have to be, coming from a 360 CI motor, are flywheel, they aren't all that great.

I 350 with 190 AFR/219/SR combo make more power than that at the flywheel.

But I do agree with you that it comes down to drivng style, which leads me back to the original question...which pertained to a 400+ engine. If had a 400+ CI engine and you told me that your driving habits consisted of driving at 4000+ RPM on a regular basis on the street. I would first throw up the :bs flag, then tell you it was nice seeing knowing you, just don't take anyone innocent with you when you pile up the car. Trust me there is absolutely no reason for someone with such and engine to even begin to take it that high on the street, except for on occasion, with any intake.

I think the people that have them will be in agreeance with me on that. :eek: :cheers:

For the best of both worlds I would say the Stealth ram might be the best...based on information I have read, but I would like to see some number from someone here. And here from them also.

This is a good debate though. We are all partial to the intakes of our choice. LOL :D

Mike in Boston

I think this is the post you're looking for.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=550897

-Mike :seeya

reallycoolcorvette

A 350 219/AFR/SR combo will not make 460 hp at the flywheel. More like 395 to 400.
Peak torque on the other hand, the S/R combo wins, but the MiniRam & LT1 manifolds produce plenty of low end torque.

Jim Fomato (sp?) had a miniram 420 cube auto car that ran 10's all day, so the people on the third gen and the one's here that are not running 10's just have a matter of time of getting there, just like you and Corkvette.

:thumbs:

the stealth ram cost to much. i'de rather go carb/efi conversion plus i'de like to see some more h/p figures.


:chevy :chevy :chevy

loiq

Mike In Boston,

That's it! Sweet. Did you get the blower on it yet? Excuse my ignorance, but I don't see an air flow sensor on your car. WTF? What sort of system are you running? You've done a nice job on that car. :seeya