BadDriver

I'm planning on getting some good cylinder heads, and I was wondering what would be a good intake setup that would take advantage of improved air flow.

:flag

vader86

Superram, lingenfelter.com

What heads are you getting though?

grumpyvette

the CORRECT answer as to whats the best intake will be found ONLY by matching your ENTIRE engine combo to a certain engine size,rpm range,DYNAMIC compression ratio , cam timing, header scavageing flow rate and cylinder head flow rate AT the rpm range your looking to be the most efficient in at filling your cylinders for max hp.

the first thing youll need to have is a hp goal!

first the math
(1)youll be limited to about 1.2 hp per cid on engine size
(2) YOULL BE LIMITER to about 6400rpm with HYDROLIC flat tappet or hydrolic roller cams
(3)piston speeds that exceed 4000fpm usually lead to trouble
(4)dynamic compression ratios of over about 8.3:1-8.5:1 with aluminum heads or about 7.8:1-8:1 with iron heads can cause detonation problems

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/

(5)the formula for roughly matching POTENTIAL HP to INTAKE PORT FLOW is (.257 x port flow at max cam lift x 8(3 of CYLINDERs)= POTENTIAL hp
(6) look closely at the duration used for each MATCHING rpm range. ALSO KEEP IN MIND THE DCR AND OVERLAP MUST MATCH look here these are the valve timeing overlap ranges that are most likely to work correctly
trucks/good mileage towing 10-35 degs overlap
daily driven low rpm performance 30-55degs overlap
hot street performance 50-75 degs overlap
oval track racing 70-95degs overlap
dragster/comp eliminator engines 90-115 degs overlap
but all engines will need the correct matching dcr for those overlap figures to correctly scavage the cylinders in the rpm ranges that apply to each engines use range
if you stick with a stock or slightly modified TPI youll run out of air by 4500rpm so theres no reason to cam the engine to turn 6500rpm, cams in the 210-215 intake duration are all the intake can supply and about 220 degrees is really the effective ceiling on usefull duration (3.08 gears-3.53 gears) ( heads that flow 230cfm @ .500 lift)
swap to a accel or edeldbrock base and add highly ported asm or slp runners and 5500rpm and 8-10 degrees more duration on the cam is called for.(3.23-3.73 gears)( heads that flow 240cfm @ .500 lift)

swap to a stealth ram and you can use 230-245 degrees duration and reach 6500rpm easily (3.73-4.11 gears match best))( heads that flow 255cfm @ .500 lift)

OK now lets follow the rules and build an engine suitable for the average corvette and lets set the goals at pushing a 3300 lb car to 12.0 seconds in the 1/4 mile with a 3.08 rear gear, and a 700r4 trans and 26.5" tires and an to simulate an average c-4 corvette.
well the first thing we are going to need to know is how much hp /tq will we need useing this quick guide

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calchpm.htm

http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_ETMPH.asp

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrpm.htm

http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_gears.asp


we find we need about 350 REAR WHEEL HP and we should be going about 110-112mph in the 1/4 mile with that goal a ported aftermarket TPI or a super ram fits best with a cam in the 220 durration range[/b]


want to go faster? (EASILYyoull need to swap to either a nitrous plate to cheat on the airflow the engine sees or get a stealth ram and a cam in the 230-240 durration range with the matching change to 3.73-4.11 rear gears to match the cam and intakes effective rpm range and 30lb-32 lb heads that flow 245-255cfm @ .500 lift, injectors to feed that better air flow, all those changes will easily boost you another 60-80hp due to that higher rpm range and better air flow (420-450 rear wheel hp is in reach if everything is correctly matched and a nitrous plate becomes much more effective due to the larger ports and better and straiter shot from plenum to intake valve



now Im sure not saying you can,t reach your goal with other combos but its much easier to do and the results are more predictable if all the parts match and work together than if you just throw random parts together and hope they work well enought to get you to your expected goal
or as my old mentor used to say
"failing to carefully plan! is carefully planing to fail!"









[Modified by grumpyvette, 12:16 AM 3/19/2003]

cyclerage23

grumpyvette, how are you with taxes?? I dont want to ever have to work again, can you set it up. :eek: :eek:

ASRoff

The ultimate intake? thats simple a custom hogan's sheetmetal intake It only runs about $2000 to $2500. :jester

Mikedril

I see, by your profile, that you are in Kalifornia. If the car is registered in Kali. you better stick with heads and intake that have a CARB EO number. As far as I know, the only aftermarket heads that have the CARB EO numbers are Edelbrock and AFR 190's. And for the intake, Accel base and runners have CARB EO numbers. I don't know if any of the other intakes have them.

If you are just stationed at Pendelton and the car is registered in a free state, never mind what I typed above!! :D


[Modified by Mikedril, 10:10 PM 3/18/2003]

drive it

[QUOTE] As far as I know, the only aftermarket heads that have the CARB EO numbers are Edelbrock and AFR 190's. And for the intake, Accel base and runners have CARB EO numbers.

QUOTE]

Heads-also trick flow and many others...on bases and runners-most all do.

bill mcdonald

In CA I would say the only way to go is with the super ram.

But what are you planning for the car? What do you want?

pablocruise

your sig says no cash.
So maybe port your 113 castings and go to a 2.02/1.60valve/seats/3-angle valve job.
Intakes.
Superram vs. miniram. Do a search in the archives and you will see the strong opinions and heated debates for both.
Bill, the miniram is not a a viable option in Ca? Why?


[Modified by 89 Paul in Cal, 12:18 AM 3/19/2003]

BadDriver

Thanks for all the responses,
I'm planning on using AFR 190 cylinder heads, and my car is registered in HI so I can do anything with it.
Thanks for the links grumpyvette, just when I think I know a little bit about engines, I get completely blown away... I have to do some math now.

Is the superram alot better flowing than the LPE ported plenum and runners? I like the look of the TPI.

ToddC4

I guess I've said it before and I'll re-state it here. Because I do feel pretty strongly about it.

Regardless of what you hear, or what people tell you, you'll never get a standard TPI long runner setup to support the high rpm potential of aftermarket heads. Even with large tube runners. The intake and it's 17" of runners will not support it. You will only hear arguments otherwise from people who have spent lots of $$$ on LTR and aftermarket base setups.

The Super Ram is far superior to a LTR setup. On the other hand, the Mini Ram is far superior to the SR, regardless of how many people on this board (which still amazes me) choose the SR.

I will say that you'll never find someone who has used both a SR and a MR and then go with the SR in all future builds. Installation is a nightmare to people not expecting it, and to people used to multiple-peice intakes will only find it needlessly complex to work with. Due to the runner length, the SR will NEVER support the kind of high rpm power as the MR. Won't happen.

I have run them all. The MR is the only way to go. Unfortunately, it's expensive. Fortunately, the Stealth Ram is not and the performance of that will be nearly identical to the MR. You can even get a modified plenum from this board to clear the hood.

Don't waste your money on aftermarket heads while planning on keeping a full-length intake. You'll never see the benefits and you will most likely hurt yourself and lose any cylinder-filling ability you ever had.

I am completely FLOORED that people will tolerate the build quality, tolerances, and installation problems with the SR. Amazing. Guys, do yourselves a favor and call TPiS. I used to run the SR. For a long time. I would have defended it strongly. Even while I was constantly chasing poor sealing surfaces, vacuum leaks, poor quality gaskets, upper plenum to runner bolts and everything else.

Let's just say the power gains going from the SR to the MR were incredible, as was the installation.

I mean, come on, I had to take off the valve covers and three roller rockers on each side to get access to the lowest center runner bolts to get the thing apart!

The SR is great for looks. I'll admit that. So is the stock setup, and as long as you're going for low end, then get a cam that's appropriate for that range and leave the heads alone if you want to go that route. Just don't make the mistake of too many people in the F-car and Y-car feild and run aftermarket large heads under a TPI long runner setup! You're killing yourself!

I realize very well that people will not agree with all this. I'm trying to help you make the most power with the least amount of pain possible.

Oh, and if you're wondering, there was no low end loss.

For a little more info, this was with the hotcam and Edelbrock 6090 heads.

vader86

Oh yes, it has way more potential in terms of numbers, and will allow the engine to make power at higher rpms where the TPI doesnt.

fourthgencorvette

get a long tube super miniram. Best of all 3 worlds.


:lol:

seriously, it depends on what else you want to do. So I cant answer this question for you.

grumpyvette

get a long tube super miniram. Best of all 3 worlds

thats what a STEALTH RAM WITH MODIFIED PLENUM IS

BadDriver

Where can I get a modified plenum for the stealth ram?

fourthgencorvette

just curious....how much does that stealth ram intake weigh?