Is jumped ALDL pins A B a true fan request ??
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Jul 2022
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 219 Likes
on
163 Posts
Is jumped ALDL pins A B a true fan request WinALDL ??
Good morning,
I may have a bad ECM or I may have a bad brand new temp sending unit. In 50 degree temps at 40mph with a 160 thermostat I was reading 178. When I was in traffic and hit a fan temp I did not get fans even at 231, as high as it got. I thought it seemed a little cold out for those temps. As I look at ALDL pin B to ECM harness circuit 451 it should trigger ALDL diagnostic mode and does. Does pin B somehow ground the fan relay or does it cause a true ECM request? With KOEO +AB I have primary fan. With Win ALDL 10k mode I see a fan request but have no fan. I do need to take a ride and check the indicator against the engines sensor.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I do have another ECM in hand but would like to know a few things before installing.
Thanks
Donny
.
I may have a bad ECM or I may have a bad brand new temp sending unit. In 50 degree temps at 40mph with a 160 thermostat I was reading 178. When I was in traffic and hit a fan temp I did not get fans even at 231, as high as it got. I thought it seemed a little cold out for those temps. As I look at ALDL pin B to ECM harness circuit 451 it should trigger ALDL diagnostic mode and does. Does pin B somehow ground the fan relay or does it cause a true ECM request? With KOEO +AB I have primary fan. With Win ALDL 10k mode I see a fan request but have no fan. I do need to take a ride and check the indicator against the engines sensor.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. I do have another ECM in hand but would like to know a few things before installing.
Thanks
Donny
.
Last edited by Vets-Vet; 01-17-2024 at 12:11 PM.
#2
In field service the ecm controls the fan relay. If it comes on koeo with aldl jumped a to b then the ecm should control it based off cts readings. The Hypertech you have is probably lower than stock 228f.
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Jul 2022
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 219 Likes
on
163 Posts
Thanks,
Yeah, I didn't really get it beyond 5° of the on temp so I might have a sender thats off and I never really got it to temp. I guess I will just throw the 88999194 in and see what happens, maybe go for a ride and watch both the indicated and the engine sensor.
Yeah, I didn't really get it beyond 5° of the on temp so I might have a sender thats off and I never really got it to temp. I guess I will just throw the 88999194 in and see what happens, maybe go for a ride and watch both the indicated and the engine sensor.
#4
I think it would be a good idea to try the other ecm.
i can’t remember on winaldl does the box light up when commanded or gets a check mark ? Tunerpro rt shows this in item list the status that is. If you grab the part number off the Hypertech I can see if I have that file to look at fan temp it’s probably closer to 200f on . The reading you’re seeing in the datastream is from the front of intake cts. It might not match the gauge temperature but fairly close.
i can’t remember on winaldl does the box light up when commanded or gets a check mark ? Tunerpro rt shows this in item list the status that is. If you grab the part number off the Hypertech I can see if I have that file to look at fan temp it’s probably closer to 200f on . The reading you’re seeing in the datastream is from the front of intake cts. It might not match the gauge temperature but fairly close.
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Jul 2022
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 219 Likes
on
163 Posts
It's a checkmark, and the difference between the two is what I meant by taking a ride and watching the indicated vs engine sensor.
The big question is shouldnt I be getting a fan with winaldl fan request with a checkmark? I get fan with A+B but not with 10k mode and a checkmark.
That screenshot above is the actual winaldl screen during the 10k mode no fan.
The big question is shouldnt I be getting a fan with winaldl fan request with a checkmark? I get fan with A+B but not with 10k mode and a checkmark.
That screenshot above is the actual winaldl screen during the 10k mode no fan.
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Jul 2022
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 219 Likes
on
163 Posts
Not sure what to think about the WinALDL fan request being checked. As I thought the indicated vs the engine sensor was off. Sometimes by 30°. When engine sensor hit 228 exactly the fan kicked on as it should have. So the whole problem was apperently the new sender which I ohmed out at room temp with the old one to make sure it was OK. Chinese **** products. She is still pulling fuel from the mix. I have another O2 sensor but was waiting for the junk from new head gaskets and such to go through before I installed it. Runs great cold and has a sputter when hot so I guess the new O2 goes in.
.
.
.
.
#8
Tunerpro rt is much easier to see what’s going on with the o2 and fuel trims. Harder to connect to $32B though. It’s hard to tell with screenshot but is blm 116 ?
no exhaust leaks ?
no exhaust leaks ?
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Member Since: Jul 2022
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,236
Likes: 0
Received 219 Likes
on
163 Posts
This is the log for the ride. I dont know why winaldl has a log it is just useless spread out crap unless someone knows how to manage, if you do please tell me. I had everything but sensor unchecked. As far as I can see the answer to my question is yes, A+B creates an ECM fan request KOEO via the ECM diagnostics.
.
.
Last edited by Vets-Vet; 01-17-2024 at 03:17 PM.
#11
Drifting
This is the definition I have for 1985-1988 TPI.
For 160 baud data byte 18, bit 6:
1 = FAN REQUEST BIT
You can check byte 18 in raw data tab and convert to binary do double check id WinALDL show incormation correct.
/ Jonas
For 160 baud data byte 18, bit 6:
1 = FAN REQUEST BIT
You can check byte 18 in raw data tab and convert to binary do double check id WinALDL show incormation correct.
/ Jonas
Code:
/06/28/93 PUT DATA STREAM INFORMATION IN FILE. B.HENSON DATA STREAM A28 SPECIFICATION ENGINE USAGE: 5.0L PFI CPC - (LB9) - (F) - 87,88 (160 & 8192 baud) 5.0L PFI CPC - (LB9) - (F) - 86 (160 baud only) 5.7L PFI CPC - (L98) - (8) - 87,88 (160 & 8192 baud) 5.7L PFI CPC - (L98) - (8) - 85,86 (160 baud only) DATA PIN : READ DATA ON PIN "E" OF ALDL CONNECTOR BAUD RATE : 8192 MODES : DATA STREAM ATTACHED FOR ALDL MODE 1 THESE ENGINES USE A 'HYBRID' ECM, AND THE 8192 DATA COMMUNICATIONS OCCUR ON ALDL PIN 'E' Serial data shall be unidirectional from the ECM to a connected device at 160 baud when the ECM is not in the ALDL mode. When the ECM is in the ALDL mode (10k), the ECM shall transmit the normal 25 parameter ALDL list at the 160 baud rate. The ECM shall then be moded to listen for a period of 50 ms for an inbound message from an ALDL test device at an 8192 baud rate. If a valid message is received, communications shall continue at an 8192 baud rate until a power down reset. Otherwise, the ECM shall be moded for 160 baud, transmit the 25 parameter ALDL list and then listen for 50 ms for an 8192 baud inbound message. ------------------------------------------------------------ DATA PIN : READ DATA ON PIN "E" OF ALDL CONNECTOR BAUD RATE : 160 MODES : 10 K MODE OR SHORTED ..PAGE ..HEAD02L ALDL DATA LIST ..HEAD03L NUMBER OF DATA WORDS - 25 ..HEAD04L ALDL 160 BAUD: 10K AND SHORTED MODES ..HEAD05L WORD BIT LOCATION 1 MODE WORD 2 0 OVERDRIVE ON 1 = ON, 0 = OFF 1 MALF 14 OR 15 THIS STARTUP 2 REFERENCE PULSE OCCUREED 3 1 = IN ALDL MODE, 8192 LOCKED IN , AND MODE 4 4 DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN DIAGNOSTIC POSITION 5 DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN ALDL POSITION 6 HIGH BATTERY VOLTAGE 7 SHIFT LIGHT 1 = ON, 0 = OFF 2 FIRST PROMID WORD PROMID = (MSB)*256+(LSB) 3 SECOND PROMID WORD 4 IAC PRESENT MOTOR POSITION STEPS = N 5 COOLANT TEMPERATURE DEG C = N*192/256 - 40 6 MILES PER HOUR N = MPH 7 EGR DUTY CYCLE % DUTY CYCLE = N/2.56 8 ENGINE SPEED (RPM) RPM = N * 25 9 THROTTLE POSITION VOLTS = N * .0196 10 BASE PULSE CLOSED LOOP CORRECTION N = COUNTS 11 OXYGEN SENSOR MILLIVOLTS = N*4.44 12 MALFUNCTION FLAG WORD 1 0 C23 MAT SENSOR LOW 1 C22 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR LOW 2 C21 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR HIGH 3 C16 NOT USED 4 C15 COOLANT SENSOR LOW TEMPERATURE 5 C14 COOLANT SENSOR HIGH TEMPERATURE 6 C13 OXYGEN SENSOR OPEN 7 C12 NO REFERENCE PULSES (ENG. NOT RUNNING) 13 MALFUNCTION FLAG WORD 2 0 C35 NOT USED 1 C34 MAF SENSOR LOW 2 C33 MAF SENSOR HIGH 3 C32 EGR DIAGNOSTIC 4 C31 NOT USED 5 C26 NOT USED 6 C25 MAT SENSOR HIGH 7 C24 VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR 14 MALFUNCTION FLAG WORD 3 0 C51 PROM ERROR 1 C46 VATS FAILED 2 C45 OXYGEN SENSOR RICH 3 C44 OXYGEN SENSOR LEAN 4 C43 ESC FAILURE 5 C42 EST MONITOR ERROR 6 C41 CYLINDER SELECT ERROR 7 C36 BURNOFF DIAGNOSTIC ..PAGE 15 MALF FLAG WORD 4 0 C63 NOT USED 1 C62 NOT USED 2 C61 NOT USED 3 C56 NOT USED 4 C54 ADU ERROR 5 C53 FUEL PUMP VOLTAGE 6 C52 OVER VOLTAGE 7 C51 CAL PACK MISSING 16 AIR/FUEL MODE WORD 0 NOT USED 1 LEARN CONTROL ENABLE FLAG 1 = ENABLE STORED 2 NOT USED 3 NOT USED 4 VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR FAILURE 5 EECC SLOW 02 RICH/LEAN FLAG 6 RICH - LEAN FLAG 1 = RICH, 0 = LEAN 7 CLOSED LOOP FLAG 1 = CLOSED LOOP 17 MANIFOLD AIR TEMPERATURE SEE TABLE 1 18 MCU INPUT STATUS WORD 0 1 = IN PARK/NEUTRAL 1 1 = NOT IN THIRD GEAR 2 1 = OVERDRIVE REQUEST 3 NOT USED(POWER STEERING ON = 1) 4 1 = EGR DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH CLOSED 5 1 = TCC LOCKED 6 1 = FAN REQUEST BIT 7 0 = A/C REQUEST 19 OLDPA3 - ESC COUNTER INPUT N = COUNTS 20 BLM N = COUNTS 21 ALDL RICH LEAN CHANGE COUNTER / TOTAL CROSSOVER COUNTS ** 22 AIR FLOW RATE (MSB) 23 AIR FLOW RATE (LSB) G/S = (MSB)*256+(LSB) 24 INJECTOR BASE PULSE WIDTH (MSB) 25 INJECTOR BASE PULSE WIDTH (LSB) WIDTH=(MSB)*256 + (LSB) ***: THIS READING SHOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE LAST TWO READINGS. TAKE CURRENT DATA STREAM READING SUBTRACT LAST DATA STREAM READING FOR ACTUAL MS VALUE. FOR FIRST DATA STREAM, THAT READING IS THE MS VALUE. ** : THIS IS A ROLLOVER COUNTER (0 - 255), TAKE CURRENT DATA STREAM READING SUBTRACT LAST DATA STREAM READING = CROSSCOUNTS. IF CURRENT READING MINUS LAST READING IS < 0, THEN TAKE CURRENT READING + 255 - LAST READING = CROSSCOUNTS. ..PAGE ..HEAD02L ALDL DATA LIST ..HEAD03L ..HEAD04L ..HEAD05L MANIFOLD AIR TEMPERATURE TABLE DEGREES C A/D TEMPERATURE COUNTS ------------ ------ -40 0 -30 4 -25 5 -20 8 -15 10 -10 14 - 5 18 0 24 5 30 10 37 15 46 20 56 25 66 30 78 35 90 40 103 45 116 50 129 55 141 60 153 65 163 70 174 75 183 80 191 85 199 90 205 95 211 100 216 105 221 110 225 115 229 120 232 125 234 130 237 135 239 140 241 145 242 150 243 200 255 ..PAGE ..HEAD02L ..HEAD03L 8192 BAUD COMMUNICATIONS. ..HEAD04L ALDL 8192 BAUD: 10K AND SHORTED MODES - MODE 1 ..HEAD05L The ALDL tester must transmit the following message to the ECM, to receive the fixed data stream: MODE 1 (TRANSMIT FIXED DATA STREAM) ALDL REQUEST: - MESSAGE ID = $80 - MESSAGE LENGTH = $56 - MODE = $01 - SUM CHECK THE ECM WILL RESPOND WITH THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE: - MESSAGE ID = $80 - MESSAGE LENGTH = $95 - MODE = $01 - DATA BYTE 1 . . - DATA BYTE 63 - SUM CHECK ..HEAD02L ALDL DATA LIST ..HEAD03L NUMBER OF DATA WORDS - 63 ..HEAD04L ALDL MODE 1: 10K AND SHORTED MODES ..HEAD05L WORD BIT LOCATION ..page WORD BIT DESCRIPTION EQUATION 1 PROMIDA (MSB) 2 PROMIDB (LSB) PROM = (N1*256+N2) 3 MALFUNCTION WORD 1 0 MALF CODE 23 MAT SENSOR OPEN 1 MALF CODE 22 THROTTLE POSITION LOW 2 MALF CODE 21 THROTTLE POSITION HIGH 3 MALF CODE 16 NOT USED 4 MALF CODE 15 COOLANT SENSOR LOW 5 MALF CODE 14 COOLANT SENSOR HIGH 6 MALF CODE 13 OXYGEN SENSOR 7 MALF CODE 12 NO REFERENCE PULSES 4 MALFUNCTION WORD 2 0 MALF CODE 35 NOT USED 1 MALF CODE 34 MAF SENSOR LOW 2 MALF CODE 33 MAF SENSOR HIGH 3 MALF CODE 32 EGR 4 MALF CODE 31 NOT USED 5 MALF CODE 26 NOT USED 6 MALF CODE 25 MAT SENSOR HI 7 MALF CODE 24 VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR 5 MALFUNCTION WORD 3 4 MALF CODE 51 PROM ERROR 5 MALF CODE 46 VATS FAILED 5 MALF CODE 45 O2 SENSOR RICH 6 MALF CODE 44 O2 SENSOR LEAN 7 MALF CODE 43 ESC FAILURE 5 MALF CODE 42 EST MONITOR ERROR 5 MALF CODE 41 CYLINDER SELECT 5 MALF CODE 36 BURNOFF DIAGNOSTICS 6 MALFUNCTION WORD 4 0 (CODE 63) 1 (CODE 62) 2 (CODE 61) 3 (CODE 56) 4 (CODE 55) 5 MALF CODE 54 FUEL PUMP VOLTAGE 6 MALF CODE 53 OVER VOLTAGE 7 MALF CODE 52 CAL PACK MISSING 7 MALFUNCTION WORD 5 0 (CODE 63) 1 (CODE 62) 2 (CODE 61) 3 (CODE 56) 4 (CODE 55) 5 MALF CODE 66 NOT USED 6 MALF CODE 65 NOT USED 7 MALF CODE 64 NOT USED 8 COOLANT TEMPERATURE N = (DEG C + 40)*256/192 9 START UP COOLANT TEMPERATURE N = (DEGC + 40)*256/192 10 THROTTLE POSITION VOLTS = N/51 11 ENGINE SPEED RPM = N*25 12 TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (MSB) 13 TIME BETWEEN REFERENCE PULSES (LSB) USEC=(N15*256+N16)*15.26 14 FILTERED MILES PER HOUR (MSB) 15 FILTERED MILES PER HOUR (LSB) 16 N/V RATIO 17 OXYGEN SENSOR MILLIVOLTS = N*4.44 18 O2 CROSS COUNTS 19 BASE PULSE FINE CORRECTION 20 BASE PULSE COURSE CORRECTION(BLM) 21 BLOCK LEARN MULTIPLIER CELL N = BLM CELL # 22 CLOSED LOOP INTEGRATOR 23 IAC MOTOR POSITION N = # IAC STEPS 24 IDLE SPEED STEPS COMMAND, DIRECTION 0<N<128 N = # STEPS 128<N<256 N = #STEPS +128 25 DESIRED IDLE RPM RPM = N*12.5 26 LOAD VARIABLE AIRFLOW * RPM 27 AD TEST CHANNEL GOOD RANG 118-137 28 LOAD VARIABLE 12.5 MSEC OLD 29 MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE VOLTS = N * .0196 30 AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR SEE TABLE #1 31 EGR DUTY CYCLE % DUTY CYCLE = N/2.56 32 CHARCOAL CANISTER PURGE DUTY CYCLE 33 ENGINE COOLING FAN DUTY CYCLE 34 BATTERY VOLTAGE VOLTS = N/10 35 FUEL PUMP POWER SWITCH SUPPLIED 36 MASS AIR FLOW (MSB) 37 MASS AIR FLOW (LSB) 38 MASS AIR FLOW (LSB) 39 TOTAL UNLIMITED SPARK ADVANCE REL TO TDC (MSB) 40 TOTAL UNLIMITED SPARK ADVANCE REL TO TDC (LSB) double byte value in 2's complement representation If Bit 7 of MSB = 0 then result is positive value = (N38*256 + N39) If Bit 7 of MSB = 1 then result is negative value = 65536 - (N38*256 + N39) DEGREES = value * 90/256 41 UNLIMITED SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REF PULSE(MSB) 42 UNLIMITED SPARK ADVANCE REL TO REF PULSE(LSB) DEGREES = value * 90/256 43 ELECTRONIC SPARK CONTROL SIGNAL INPUT 44 ELECTRONIC SPARK CONTROL ECM OUTPUT 45 INJECTOR BASE PULSE WIDTH (MSB) 46 INJECTOR BASE PULSE WIDTH (LSB) 47 TOTAL FUEL AIR VALUE(MSB) 48 TOTAL FUEL AIR VALUE(LSB) 49 RUNNING TOTAL OF FUEL DELIVERED(MSB) 50 RUNNING TOTAL OF FUEL DELIVERED(LSB) 51 RUNNING TOTAL OF DISTANCE TRAVELED 52 ENGINE RUNNING TIME IN SECONDS (MSB) 53 ENGINE RUNNING TIME IN SECONDS (LSB) 54 MODE WORD 2 0 1 = CARS ACTIVE 1 MALF 14 OR 15 THIS START UP 2 REFERENCE PULSE OCCURRED 3 1 = IN ALDL MODE 8192 LOCKED IN AND MODE 4 4 DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN DIAG POSITION 5 DIAGNOSTIC SWITCH IN ALDL POSITION 6 HIGH BATTERY VOLTAGE-DISABLE MCU SOL DISABLE 7 SHIFT LIGHT (1 = ON, 0 = OFF)_ 55 MCUINST 0 1 = PARK/NEUTRAL 1 1 = NOT IN 3RD GEAR 2 1 = OVERDRIVE REQUREST 3 NOT USED(1 = POWER STEERING PRESSURE) 4 NOT USED 5 1 = TRANS CONVERTER CLUTCH LOCKED 6 1 = FAN RUEQUEST 7 0 = AIR CONDITIOINING REQUEST ..PAGE 56 FMDBYTE 1 0 PARK NEUTRAL SWITCH 0=DRIVE 1 3RD GEAR = 1 2 4TH GEAR = 1 3 NOT USED(POWER STEERING CRAMP = 1) 4 NOT USED 5 EGR DIAGNOSTIC 6 FAN REQUEST <=> AIR CONDITIONING HI PRESSURE 7 AIR CONDITIONER 0 = A/C REQUESTED 57 MINOR LOOP MODE WORD 1 0 ADVANCE FLAG 0 = ADV 1 1 = HIGHWAY FUEL TIMER ENABLED 2 INTERRUPT SERVICE EXECUTION EXC 6.25 3 FAN ON DISABLESD BY PID 4 TCC ROAD SPEED 1ST PULSE FLAG 5 AIR CONDITIONING CLUTCH FLAG 0 = A/C CLUTCH ON 6 BYPASS CHECK ENABLE 7 ENGINE RUNNING FLAG 1 = RUNNING 58 NV MODE WORD 0 1 = 02 SENSOR READY 1 1 = CLOSED LOOP TIMER TIMED OUT 2 NOT USED 3 1 = IMPROPER SHUTDOWN 4 NOT USED 5 1 = IAC KICKDOWN ENABLED 6 1 = KWARM KICKDOWN ENABLED 7 1 = MALF 42 FAILED (EST MONITOR) 59 DNEE MODE WORD 0 OVERDRIVE ON 1 = ON 1 1ST GEAR DIRCT 1 = 1ST GEAR 2 1ST UPSHIFT OK 1 = OK 3 4TH GEAR 1 = 4TH GEAR 4 1ST GEAR OVERDRIVE 1 = OVERDRIVE 5 DOWNSHIFT/OFF REQUEST 1 = REQUEST 6 UPSHIFT/ON REQUEST 1 = REQUEST 7 OVERDRIVE ACTIVE 1 = ACTIVE 60 ALCL MODE WORD 0 ALDL RESET 1 1 = CLEAN CANISTER 2 1 = IN OPEN LOOP BEFORE GOINT INTO PE 3 FIRST C/L PASS THRU FIELD SERVICE MODE 1 = DONE 4 FIELD SERVICE 5 ONE SECOND FLAG 6 200 MSEC TOGGLE BIT FOR 2.5 HZ FLASH RATE 7 PULLUP RESISTOR FOR COOLANT 1 = 4K 61 AIR MODE WORD 0 100 ms old ccp purge on flag 0 = off 1 1 = AIR CONTROLLED 0 =AIR DIVERTED 2 1 = AIR SWITCHED TO PORT 3 1 = BURNOFF FAILURE CHECK COMPLETE 4 1 = SKIP BURNOFF DU TO > 17 VOLTS THIS START UP 5 1 = D.E. QSEQ 6 1 = BURN OFF AIR METER 7 1 = DECEL ENLEANMENT ..PAGE 62 SD MODE WORD 0 1 = EXPECTING FIRST 160 BAUD INTERRUPT 1 1 = EXPECTING SECOND 160 BAUD INTERRUPT 2 1 = IN 8192 MODE 3 1 = LOCKED IN 8192 MODE 4 1 = BLM RESET COMMANDED IN PRIOR LOOP 5 1 = IAC RESET COMMANDED IN PRIOR LOOP 6 1 = MALFFLAG CLEAR COMMAND IN PRIOR LOOP 7 NOT USED 63 MWAF1 0 NOT USED 1 LEARN CONTROL ENABLE FLAG 1 = ENABLE STORE 2 NOT USED 3 NOT USED 4 VEHICLE SPEED SENSOR FAILURE 5 EECC SLOW O2 RICH/LEAN FLAG 6 RICH-LEAN FLAG 1 = RICH 0 = LEAN 7 CLOSED LOOP FLAG 1 = CLOSED 0 = OPEN