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Hi all
I am getting analysis paralysis with all of the heads that are out there. AFR is the gold standard from what I understand, but there are a TON of options.
I'm building a 383 with a 6 inch rod and flat tops. I will be using a Lingenfelter super ram.
Cam is undecided, could go with the LPE 219, but the 268xfi is also attractive with the lobes and the lift, along with a little more exhaust duration. I'm sure people will chime in with bigger cam suggestions but I'm looking for great driveability as much as I am looking for power. (95% street driven 89 convertible, zf trans)
Id like to be in the 450-475 CRANK hp range. Do I need the afrs or is there a less costly alternative? I was interested in the profilers, and then they jumped in price to more than a set of afr 195s so that seems like a waste
The jegs offering remained the same in price iirc, which is a profiler.
That being said... 475 hp will probably want a head that can support something in the range of 250 cfm at or below your target valve lift... just a rough guesstimate there. Any decent 195cc head should be capable of delivering what you want. AFR is the best, but I understand saving coin and putting it elsewhere if you can. Finding a head right now alone is probably going to be difficult.
Either the 219 superram cam or the 268 XFI will work well, they have very similar specs, just make sure you compare them both with 1.6 rockers since that is what the XFI 268 is advertised at. Pick a good quality head like a AFR, Brodix, Dart, Trickflow, you cannot go wrong.
I've heard from a guy I know that ordered the jegs head that they are pretty much permanently out of stock without saying they're permanently out of stock.
I'm sure the afr would leave room to breathe if I eventually stepped up to a 406, which will probably have the 195 maxed out. You get what you pay for I guess.
Hello 👋,
I had Chad Golen build me a forged nitrous purpose built stroker . We used my Edelbrock lt4 extreme rpm’s ( dressed ) comp cam 07-000-08 Matching Edelbrock (red) lt4 rpm air gap intake . I will post the Dyno results as it left chads shop in NH . He was amazed that these heads flowed (195cc) as well or better then the AFR’s. These heads as you can see where still making a steady climb at 6000rpms where he stopped the pull . It’s a full roller motor . Matched the comp cam with their hydraulic roller lifters . This motor is fffffffffaaast ! Cam range is 2000 rpm to 6500rpm range ( everyone including me asked golen why he cut it off at 6000rpms ?????? ) “ they start nosing over at 6000 rpm’s “ says golen . Looks to me and everyone else there is a steady up hill hp line @6000 rpm’s . He is an AFR guy , he must of thought the Edelbrock’s where done at that range ( nope ) lol . I happen to have the Edelbrock 2108 sitting on my garage shelve from my build prior to this one . It makes big power also . I was shocked to see Edelbrock wants $509 for the 2108 !!! It makes 440 on my last build . Hope this helps brother ! I am ear to ear in Seattle !!! Lol 😂
my car was built by mick stevens and the engine was built by tpis. afr190 with competition port 2.02/1.60 with cam at 600 lift with 1.6 rockers. 396 forged small block. 532 horse at 6300 rpm with 36 pound injectors. fyi.
my car was built by mick stevens and the engine was built by tpis. afr190 with competition port 2.02/1.60 with cam at 600 lift with 1.6 rockers. 396 forged small block. 532 horse at 6300 rpm with 36 pound injectors. fyi.
that is a nice Engine sir !! Nice numbers and the good stuff for parts !
GOD bless ,
Robert
I always think of money spent on good heads as a wise investment in a strong foundation for whatever else you want to do with the car. My 396 had stock LT4 ported to amazing flow numbers by Greg Good in Houston years ago. He's still doing work, but that might be more expensive that off-the-shelf aftermarket heads these days. They flowed very similarly to the AFR 195 Race/Competition (CNCd) heads with even slightly better low-lift numbers (they flow waaay better than any other stock ported heads I've seen). With a custom Comp Cams grind that was similar to the XFI 268 (mine was XFI lobes 3014 and 3035 with 110-degree LSA), it made 420rwhp and had tons of grunt even at lower RPMs. It was also very street-drivable (I actually daily-drove that car for three years). Realistically, just by buying the AFR Race heads you could replicate that motor. Keep your eyes on the actual flow numbers at all lift values when comparing heads.
That SuperRam intake might limit the upper RPM range a bit and slightly curtail your peak power number compared to the ported LT4 intake I ran. OTOH it would provide even more midrange oomph and I doubt you'd miss the top end that much.* If you already have the SuperRam than you're all set. If you don't, then just know that they are expensive and a bit of a pain to install, and you might be able to save some cash by shopping for a used MiniRam instead.
If I were doing a gen-1 or gen-2 build today, I'd probably call Greg and ask what aftermarket core to start with and send them to him for porting, but that would be even more expensive. I suspect he'd suggest starting with smaller casting than 195cc, which would allow him to work on port shapes that maximize velocity so that low-lift flow stays clean. That's kind of his specialty. But then if I were doing that build today, I'd probably try to find a 400 block and stroke it to 425 or 431. It's fun to spend imaginary money!
*I wonder what SuperRam with ported runners and lower would do? That would be a fun experiment!
Matthew, thanks for the reply. I don't think I'll be flowing enough air or turning enough rpm with the SR to justify either 195 comp port or even afr 210s (both 1206 gasket). Sr is gonna peak around 5500 due to runner length. I'll probably end up with afr 195s, just because they're the gold standard.
Yes I'd love to do a 4.125 bore engine but I already have a spare 638 block lying around so I figure I'll just buy that. I'm learning there's tradeoffs with everything but the SR seems like it's a good middle ground between tq and rpm and since I'm not dragging it I'm fine with not spinning it to 7krpm. Also the rpm and power capability of the sr let's me get by with a scat 9000 crank instead of having to get a forged unit.
I've read that heavily ported super rams flow around 270-290 cfm, which is another reason I think the race 195 or 210 would be a waste, Jim barth also confirmed that thought.
Good to hear that cam worked for you! I was even considering having comp just grind me essentially a 08-503-8, but with the 224/230 xfi lobes to get the aggressive ramps and higher lift
Matthew, thanks for the reply. I don't think I'll be flowing enough air or turning enough rpm with the SR to justify either 195 comp port or even afr 210s (both 1206 gasket). Sr is gonna peak around 5500 due to runner length. I'll probably end up with afr 195s, just because they're the gold standard.
Generally I think you're being realistic. There's a guy on a C4 FB group that put together a 383 with a stock SR intake and AFR as-cast 195 heads. He's using CC503 cam, which is roughly a step up from the XFI268 I guess (224/230 and .503/.510). He made 409rwhp at 5440rpm and 446lb/ft with a 0.99 SAE correction...if you believe what he posted. That's more than I would have predicted, but the RPMs are right in line with what we'd expect from that intake and head combo.
Good to hear that cam worked for you! I was even considering having comp just grind me essentially a 08-503-8, but with the 224/230 xfi lobes to get the aggressive ramps and higher lift
I'm a fan of the aggressive XFI ramps. Especially with that SR intake, it is worth looking at an LSA of 110 or maybe even 108 in order to concentrate a bit more power at the midrange since the very top end probably will be a bit restricted. With my heads and ported LT4 intake, I get that midrange punch but it still pulls hard to 6k. The freer-breathing heads and intake allow a little higher rev range than you'd expect with that cam and displacement, but since the heads actually flow really well at low lift (i.e. they maintain good port velocity instead of just being hogged out) they seem to allow it to run well up high too. IOW, it has a wide of useful RPM. I never did dyno the car when I owned it, but I think the new plans to do so in the next month or so and then we'll know what it's actually doing.
I think a 383 with AFR 195 street heads and a cam with intake duration numbers between 218 to 224 will easily get you 475hp. A 396 would work really well. I did Vader 86 and 3 other guys on the forum a 396, AFR 195 street heads and a Crower 221/230 Vader mentioned. Those worked out really nice. A head bigger than a AFR 195 street head would need the base manifold welded up to be able to use a 1206 gasket. Just a heads up, all the AFR Eliminator SBC heads are fully cnc ported. The AFR 195 street head is cnc ported and uses a 1205 gasket. the 195 competition port and all comp port heads have a finer cnc finish, they spend more time on the cnc machines and use a 1206 gasket. And the comp ports obviously flow more, and come with their #8019 springs that will handle .650 lift. The street heads come with the standard springs that handle .600 lift.
Also, the catalog says the AFR 195 street head flows 280cfm. But everyone that has flowed them on independent flow benches are seeing more like 286cfm out of them
Last edited by tpi 421 vette; 04-12-2022 at 10:30 PM.
The new Enforcer 195 sbc heads are as cast over seas castings. But those heads use the same parts as the Eliminator heads. Manley valves. Pacaloy valve springs, and ARP rocker studs
Now we can get Cam813s thread back on track
Last edited by tpi 421 vette; 04-12-2022 at 10:50 PM.
04-07-2022, 03:13 PM
475hp 383
