When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
ill roll behind them on highway. Drop down to 4th gear, then when its clear /safe to pass, drop into 3rd gear and nail it . I should be nearing my torque peak . App. 4800 rpm range (correct me if im wrong) at 72-75 mph and let the e85 supercharged beast unleash itself.
so their instant torque / or traction wont matter since its from a roll.
if im starting to get beat, i can flip on the nitrous
You're going to get absolutely humiliated. The fact you think any of that is going to work is comical.
Even with the nitrous, it still has more power/torque than you do, with better suspension and better torque delivery at every single point.
I've seen kids make posts like this over on Honda-Tech about how they think they're going to outrun a C7Z.
There is a young guy in several of the Corvette groups that makes similar posts. His C4 with 383 has raced and beat C7Zs, Hellcats, etc. It is all so laughable.
You would think that he would realize that we are not laughing with him, we are laughing at him.
A few weeks ago, a Tesla Plaid was out at Sonoma Raceway for a Wednesday night. During time trials, he ran a 9.40. Got a warning and followed up with another 9.40. He was kicked out but left many impressed (myself included). Here is a car that arrives from the freeway, runs with street tires and runs quicker than most other cars out there including trailered cars doing huge burnouts (me). I will never look sideways at a Tesla at a stoplight.
^^^Almost makes you wonder about modding a gas engine huh!
Tesla defeated themselves...they have the number one rating for most UNreliable vehicle.
When is the gub gonna step in and say they are unsafe..no soccer mom needs to load her kids up in an SUV that runs 10s in the rain
To the ignorant...saw an older prius hit it from 65 mph it really took off faster than youd guess.
Face it, our old hot rods are dinosaurs that are laughed at by the EV bootlickers and younger gen
Little kids now ride Tesla quads, stage is set. Motorcylces, dirt bikes are all here now
Mayyyybe one day if I found a cheap beater it could be used for errands....Simply dont like them, 0 appeal
The youngest gen will grow up with these and wonder what anyone saw in an ICE vehicle
Yep, even with the turbocharger (hopefully twin turbochargers next spring), the nasty engine I will be building in the future, a ZF, and suspension mods: there is just no way I could make the 85 outrun a Tesla and still be remotely street friendly. Guess what: I don't care! Technology evolves. While these electric cars don't appeal to me personally, I do appreciate the advances in technology in them. I'm building my car the way I am because I love the sound and power of a turbocharged SBC, not to be faster than the next guy. Attempting to do so is an exercise in futility.
I am a teacher for my trade's (I'm an elevator service mechanic, still in the field) apprenticeship program. I currently teach DC motor and generator theory, maintenance, and the controls associated with them.
Short history lesson: elevator hoist motors used to be DC when you could still get DC power from the power company. As AC power became the dominant version, we used an AC motor turning a DC generator to generate the necessary power. The associated controls were on the bleeding edge of elevator speed control technology - in the 50's. My students will likely NEVER use the knowledge that I teach in the field. The field use of what I teach will likely die with my generation of mechanic. I am use of few that is proficient with these controls as I still have a few buildings that have elevators from the 50's that haven't updated the controls. Now it is common for us to use permanent magnet AC motors and VVVF drives to control the speeds. Guess what? The current drive/motor technology we use allows more precise speed and leveling control, less maintenance requirement, and is much more energy efficient. Either you advance with technology or you get passed.
My uncle had a saying. "No matter how fast you are, there's always going to be someone faster."
Make it 3 yards 24 hours ***** f*cka, and we'll have ourselve's an automobile race.
And that, right there, is the real shortcoming of electric car technology: you still can't recharge them in a reasonable time to make mid-trip refueling possible, much less a racecar-quality pitstop. Street cars can do very well with current BEV technology for 99% of their uses. Most people very rarely drive more than any vehicle's range in a day, and in regular street driving we probably average 20% of a car's peak power or less. So BEVs have a massive efficiency advantage, especially if they have aggressive brake regen strategies. But in any racing duty, cars are likely to average anywhere from 60-95% of their peak power throughout the race and the battery pack depletes pretty quickly, and recharging takes ages. Swapping packs is not impossible, but it's not very safe and it isn't cheap to haul around multiple 100kWh packs from one race to the next.
And that, right there, is the real shortcoming of electric car technology: you still can't recharge them in a reasonable time to make mid-trip refueling possible,
While I agree that racing probably isn't "there" (yet), mid trip refueling IS possible. My friend has a Model Y. They drive it from PC, UT, to San Diego pretty regularly. In the first couple trips they learned some pretty interesting things:
1. If you recharge the car at any stop, all the way, it takes "forever". Way too long.
2. If you only charge the car to no more than ~80%, starting above 20%, you get a massive improvement in range/minute of charging. IOW stop before it gets below 20% and don't waste time charging over 80%.
3. With this discovery in practice, they drive from PC to Beaver UT, plug it in, "pee the dogs", go to the restroom, grab a snack and hit the road again. Same in St George, and again in 'Vegas. I don't recall where their last stop is, but you get the idea.
It won't compete favorably with an ICE car with someone on a "mission" (stops for fuel and pee only at end of full tanks)...but it ends up being pretty typical stop/break patterns for most people traveling a distance such as that -especially people with dogs/kids etc.
Racing, IDK why R&R'ing batteries couldn't be done quickly and safely with some thought put into it. Expensive though it would be!
I remember testing an Audi R8 Spyder V10 Plus against a Tesla Model S P100D, on an airstrip, back in '17.
The Audi had 602bhp/413lb ft and could sprint from 0-62mph in 3.3 seconds. Given enough room, it'd clip 204mph.
The P100D, I believe, packed 589bhp and 920lb ft, and was claimed to do 0-62mph in 2.5 seconds and hit 155mph. Memory's a bit fuzzy on that one, mind, so might be a bit askew there.
Anyway, the runway wasn't overly long but I figured – having driven the Tesla and other EVs – that the Audi would get obliterated off the line, despite its launch control, but then catch up and pass the Tesla once its V10 got into its stride.
As predicted, the Tesla just ripped away from the Audi at the start of the run. However, even once north of 100mph, the Audi struggled to close the gap. I ran it out to some 130mph in the end and, still, the Audi couldn't catch and pass the still-accelerating Tesla in the space available.
Even after several runs, the story remained the same. With more room, for sure, the Audi would have ultimately crept past the Tesla – but that felt kind of moot, given the distance and speeds required.
Very impressive performance, whichever way you cut it. And that was some four years ago...
Last edited by theseoldcars; 12-10-2021 at 03:29 AM.
I have driven a Tesla in anger and while the acceleration is extremely impressive the rest of the car is underwhelming. If all you care about is pure numbers then the Tesla is the car for you but any true enthusiast will always choose an internal combustion manual transmission car.
I agree, but what you are not considering is the Tesla is essentially the "model t Ford with flat head V8" of electric cars. They are only going to get better, faster, more superior handling, and even better chassis designs. A lot of current car chassis design has to consider vibration from the engine, trans, and diff.. within 20 years the electric cars will surpass even the best internal combustion engine super cars of today brother! And for what it's worth I do own and drive a c4 with manual transmission. Last few performance cars I have owned were V8 rwd manual trans as well.. so I get it completely, but the ice is a thing of the past. As we speak it's giving the final death kicks as it is strangled to death.
While I agree that racing probably isn't "there" (yet), mid trip refueling IS possible. My friend has a Model Y. They drive it from PC, UT, to San Diego pretty regularly. In the first couple trips they learned some pretty interesting things:
It definitely is possible. Tesla has their supercharging stations and the tech to guide you to them during a long trip. And yeah, you definitely have to play within that 20-80% window. The problem remains that it still takes at least 20 minutes to go from 20-80%, and then you go another 200mi and have to do it again. That doesn't mean you can't do it, but it isn't everyone's idea of "making good time." More importantly, at those recharge times, we'll need at least 5-10 times more charging stations out on the highway as we currently have fuel pumps!
I maintain that, for street cars, the main barrier to wide acceptance is this recharge time issue. I can "recharge" a car's gas tank in a minute or two. But batteries have baked-in limitations that don't allow for that. Whenever someone solves that problem, we will quickly be on our way to almost all electric cars. They have so many other advantages - both in efficiency/environment and performance - that will be impossible to avoid that phenomenon.
Racing, IDK why R&R'ing batteries couldn't be done quickly and safely with some thought put into it. Expensive though it would be!
Oh, it can be done, but it will take some serious equipment to do it. We're talking about slinging a many-hundreds-of-pounds around, lining it up carefully with some kind of serious electrical connectors, and putting it into the car. It won't be something one does in a 10-second stop any time soon. I imagine having a platform that a driver parks on top of, and a machine pulls the old pack from underneath and puts the new one in automagically at the same time the crew is swapping tires. But the costs of doing that are mind boggling. So much so that Formula E - which currently has by far the biggest budget of any BEV racing - hasn't tried it. They used to swap entire cars mid race (which really tells you how hard/expensive a battery swap would be!), and now they have enough range to complete their sprint races.
The EVSR guys just completed the Thunderhill 25-hour race with lots of battery swaps. They have clearly put a lot of thought into this, and it's cool that a grassroots effort is showing the way forward. It's a 2-minute stop. Just like with gas refills during pitstops, there will need to be lots of rules to prevent crews from doing unsafe things in the name of speed. And fans will have to recalibrate their expectations of how long a pitstop takes (IndyCars refuel and change tires in 7 seconds, and F1 does just tires in 2). It's all very interesting.
I think that many fail to understand the taxing of the US's antiquated electrical delivery grid as well as the electrical requirements of even swapping to 25% EVs (imagine near 100% EV adoption).
While I agree that racing probably isn't "there" (yet), mid trip refueling IS possible. My friend has a Model Y. They drive it from PC, UT, to San Diego pretty regularly. In the first couple trips they learned some pretty interesting things:
1. If you recharge the car at any stop, all the way, it takes "forever". Way too long.
2. If you only charge the car to no more than ~80%, starting above 20%, you get a massive improvement in range/minute of charging. IOW stop before it gets below 20% and don't waste time charging over 80%.
3. With this discovery in practice, they drive from PC to Beaver UT, plug it in, "pee the dogs", go to the restroom, grab a snack and hit the road again. Same in St George, and again in 'Vegas. I don't recall where their last stop is, but you get the idea.
It won't compete favorably with an ICE car with someone on a "mission" (stops for fuel and pee only at end of full tanks)...but it ends up being pretty typical stop/break patterns for most people traveling a distance such as that -especially people with dogs/kids etc.
Racing, IDK why R&R'ing batteries couldn't be done quickly and safely with some thought put into it. Expensive though it would be!
This^^^^^^^^. And it will be done. The horse is out of the barn and your not putting him back in. As little as five years ago EV's were a niche market. No so anymore. I follow NASCAR closely and word amongst the industry is that in less than five years, some sort of hybrid engine will be employed in the new gen car. EV's and hybrids are here to stay and it won't be long before the IC engine as we know it will be gone.
I think that many fail to understand the taxing of the US's antiquated electrical delivery grid as well as the electrical requirements of even swapping to 25% EVs (imagine near 100% EV adoption).
This will become a hot topic quite soon.
I agree with you that there will be challenges but they are not insurmountable. I have been a master electrician for over 40 years and I have heard all the arguments. Just as an example, charging in residential areas can be programmed on a demand system. Some get charged at 2 in the morning, some at 4 etc.(keep in mind, at this time, very little conventional power is being consumed - lights, ovens, dryers etc) You want it charged right now? Go ahead but it will cost you more. We already have "smart" power meters cable of recording this. New subdivisions are employing upgraded cabling systems now for the future. Older neighborhoods can be upgraded as time proceeds. This spring, in my neck of the woods. they installed fibre optic cable to all residences(about 3000). Directional boring and vibratory plowing made little damage. By fall, you would never know they had been there. Man has always and WILL always be capable of overcoming difficulties.
Lots of naivity associated with Tesla itself and its customers. It is like a 'Model T' in a sense. Like putting out a product with very little testing and limited development. Teslas are unreliable but to me that should be expected as there isn't a 100+ years of R and D backing the product. Tesla has excellent power delivery and storage tech but that is about where it ends. The major components are really no big deal, it is all the stuff modern car owners don't worry about anymore because the majors mastered the designs. Things like weather stripping, panel fitment, door handles, door latches, door hinges, buttons, interior/exterior lighting etc... There is a reason why Tesla keeps all repairs in house. They can control the release of the info and keep the customers in the dark on what the issues really are or how poorly the car is designed. Anyone watch those youtubers try and make simple repairs? Tesla CAD'd it out and slapped it together without considering part removal and replacement procedures for a lot of items. Simple broken clips or a broken electric mirror motor and you might have to completely remove a door to get behind a hinge bracket to loosen an electrical connector for example. IMO Tesla still hasn't released a real production car. They are mass selling prototype and test cars. The majors haven't fully jumped in yet because they know what lies ahead for Tesla. Lots of class action suits with big settlements are down the line and the majors still haven't figured out a safe way to release a comparable vehicle.
So naivity on the customer's part for buying a piece of trendy garbage and naivity from Tesla thinking they can move full steam ahead with highly powered drivetrains and massive energy storage cells and not get destroyed in the courts down the road in class action suits.
12-09-2021, 04:14 PM
