DMITTZ

Hi everyone,
It’s been a while since I posted a thread so so I think its time to start 2020 out right with a new build thread.

If you've been here for a while you may recall I did a couple large build threads on my 88' some years ago. Happy to report its still runs and drives beautifully.

Well, its been 4.5 years and I tend to get bored so here we go again. I'll do my best to make this an entertaining thread for you guys.

Here's the car as it is...







And...One More from a Car show is September...




If you want to see my 2 older build threads just search DMITTZ's Corvette build and they should come up.

I might be a little crazy to take a nice running and driving car and tear it all apart yet again but that's I'm going to do.

I've had the idea to do an LS swap on the car for a year now and still want to do it so its time to finally get started.

In the past I did all my own work on the car successfully and I’m sure I have the skills to do this project. However, life has changed for me. I have a young family now and my career is taking more of my time. Unfortunately this means my time in the garage is pretty limited as my family get 1st priority. So I've decide to hire this project out. Fortunately a couple of my long friends opened a speed/fab shop about a year ago, they are talented and I'm sure they'll do a good job.

I've had to wait a year as they immediately were booked that far in advance. Since we are longtime friends they are also allowing me to be much more involved in the project than most shops probably would, although with my limited time I will mostly just be writing cheques, lol.

Our agreement is that swap should be completed in May of this year.

As per forum rules I can't reveal the name or exact location of the shop in this thread as they aren't currently a forum sponsor.

I got a small break in the rainy weather and was able to make a run for it before the rain started again so I drove the corvette over and dropped it off at the Shop. Can't wait for them to get going on it!

Here was the car as I was about to leave...




My buddies at the shop gave me a ride back after dropping off the Corvette and paying a deposit we loaded up their truck up with the Boxes full of parts for the build...

My schedule is pretty busy for the next little while so I'm not sure exactly when I'll be able to stop by the Shop next to check-in on it but If they send me any pictures I'll be sure to post them up.

DMITTZ

It'll probably be a few weeks before the shop makes much progress on the Corvette as Its not the only car they are working on so in the mean time I'll start filling you guys in on the process of gathering all the parts for this build over the last year.

So it all started back in December 2018, I was thinking I wanted to do something new and different with my 88' I had already had a forged 355ci SBC with a Super Ram, ported heads, cam etc...and 4+3 trans. I had taken that combo about as far as I wanted to go and although the car handled and braked amazingly well the engine and trans although decent, just lacked the raw excitement of the LS and 6 speed in my CTS-V at Full throttle. I figured with an LS engine and 6-speed the Corvette would be just an amazingly fun car.

So I was browsing craigslist for deals on LS engines and noticed an 2011 Aluminum block 5.3L LC9 had just been listed for a great deal. I called the guy and headed right out and bought it, I just beat a second buyer who arrived when I was loading the engine up!

LC9 info:

The LC9 is a 4th gen engine, it had the 4th gen rotating assembly and the block looks identical to an LS2 except it has a smaller bore and cylinder liners (I guess). It also comes with 799/243 heads which are pretty good cathedral port heads (same as LS2 and LS6). The LC9 was found in GM trucks and SUV's I believe it was an optional engine.




After running some numbers for performance combo's I decided that the value for $$$ to build a small 5.3L was just not there. Yes, you can bore them out to LS1 size and even stroke them to a 383 (if you have to buy new pistons and rods a little more gets you a stroker crank) but that is a lot of cash.

Unless I was going to use a turbo by the time I deleted the DOD, AFM and VVT it was going to get pricey to get the HP potential I wanted on a N/A 5.3L engine. Also since I had to replace the cam, timing set, front cover, valley cover, lifters, pushrods etc… on the LC9 to delete the DOD, AFM and VVT and the P.O had already removed the heads for inspection (which means new head gaskets and head bolts). I would pretty much have to build it now with no option run stock and build it later. So it seemed to me spending a bit more and getting a larger displacement engine (at least a 6L) with more HP to start with was a better idea.

Selling the LC9 was no big deal... Actually I managed to double my money on it

With the Aluminum 5.3L LC9 out of the way it was time to look for a bigger engine to start with...I considered a LS3 Crate or even a hot cam LS3 Crate as that is what I put in my 05' CTS-V but it seems a better value would be in a low mileage used LS engine.

While I was on vacation in Hawaii Feb 2019, I saw an LS2 long block listed for sale back at home, the price was high but I called the guy up and arranged to have a look when I got back.

They LS2 owner claimed it was out of a 2006 Corvette he owned, that had been side-swipped in a hit and run during the night quite a few years ago and it only had 18,000km/12,000 miles on it when he pulled it.

He said he was going to put it in a 55' chevy but he had already done 7 (impressive) LS swaped cars, (which he showed me in his garage) and had decided to do a BBC in his 55' as he was tired of doing LS swaps, so he didn't need the LS2 anymore. The bad part was; No intake, injectors, TB, wiring harness or accessories came with the LS2 and he had swapped the pan to a C5 corvette batwing pan (I guess that fit his 55' ???). He had as he sold all that stock LS2 stuff thinking he would carb it in his 55' and use an aftermarket accessory drive.

After looking the LS2 over and taking the pan and valley cover off, spinning it over a few times etc... I believe he was telling the truth about the super low mileage, It was really clean and could be rotated very easily. Anyway we made a deal for WAY less than he was asking, I think it was a decent buy and I took the LS2 home with me.










These were pictures from the day I got it home, as you can see this engine is literally spotless!

LS2 info:

For those not familiar with the LS2 its an aluminum block 4th gen LS engine. The block is stronger than a LS1/ and It has dry cylinder liners and can be bored .030 over if needed. It has essentially the same rotating assembly as the LS3 just with slightly smaller bore/pistons. The LS2 has a 3.622in stroke with a 4.00in bore which also gives the option to run LS3 heads if desired. The LS2 features a stock compression ratio of 10.9:1 and runs the same camshaft as the 2001 LS6 (385hp) in the C5 Z06 and uses the same 243 heads as the LS6 minus the light weight valves. Output is 400hp and 400 tq. The LS2 is a more conventional engine, it does not have DOD, AFM or VVT to deal with. It is widely known to made more power when it is not chocked by the terrible stock intake manifold.

The LS2 was used in the 2005-2007 Corvette (non-Z06) as well as the Trail Blazer SS, 2006-2007 Cadillac CTS-V, 2005-2006 Pontiac GTO, Chevrolet SSR and maybe a few others. Unfortunately the stock overactive torque management system on these vehicles also really hindered the LS2's Performance. Luckily, that is of no concern to me as I won't have any torque management at all!

Originally to save money I was planning to just leave this low miles LS2 alone, buy the needed stock parts (plus a better intake) and drop it right into my 88' and be ok with 400+hp/400+tq and great street manners, which is certainly a nice option to have!

The idea was I could build it up later if I wanted more power and the LS2 would be a good foundation for future power upgrades.... Even in basically stock form with just a proper intake swapped on, the LS2 would make about as much power as a cam swapped and ported head LC9 probably would have made for way less $$$.

One nice thing I’ve noticed about the aluminum block LS engines is they are very lite. I never had to use my engine hoist with the LC9 or the LS2, as 2 guys can very easily load it in/out of a truck and load them on an engine stand by hand. Don’t try that with a SBC!

For any purists out there, this is even an actual Corvette engine going back in a (older) Corvette...good enough for me.

DMITTZ

So now that I had an engine, or at least a long block, I turned my attention to trying to find a decent 6 speed transmission. I looked for a couple months and finally found a nice 90,000km/50,000mile T56 out of a 94' Camaro, the price also included the Rockland gear LT1 to LS1 T56 conversion kit, bellhousing, flywheel, a brand new LS1 Camaro clutch and clutch Hydraulics. The asking price seemed good and I was able to spin it around freely and shift it into all the gear so, cash in hand I haggled to owner down several hundred dollars and took the T56 home with me.




Mated to a stock LS2 I think the MM6 T56 and the stock LS1 clutch would be a good match but after doing some reading I became concerned that if I modded the LS2 the T56 might have trouble shifting much higher than 6000 RPM going into 3rd due to its single cone 3-4 syncro and the clutch would need to be upgraded too. I could have the T56 built to something like stage 2 specs, but at that point a brand new T56 Magnum looked like a better option. So I decided to list the T56 for sale and see if I could get a good price for it that would allow me to step up to a brand new T56 Magnum without too much added cost. Sure enough after 2 days I had 2 buyers that wanted it, one of them actually transferred me a little more than my asking price site unseen, to secure it, I dropped the T56 off at his father’s house the next day. Since I had made a significant amount of money on the T56 sale, I decided to buy a brand new T56 magnum from a local Canadian retailer...that way I didn't have to pay shipping etc... It took over 10 weeks to get it but it finally came in second week of October 2019.

Bringing the T56 Magnum home is the back of my CTS-V




If you’re wondering what makes a T56 Magnum different from a regular T56 check out this link:

https://tremec-blog.com/the-differen...agnum-6-speed/



You can get the T56 Magnum in several different gear ratios, the one I ordered is:

1st - 2.97

2nd - 2.10

3rd - 1.46

4th - 1

5th - 0.80

6th - 0.63



The gear ratio's of my T56 magnum are very similar to the ones found in a C5 Z06 which many people consider to be 'ideal' gearing. The only difference is the .63 vs .50 6th gear. I think the .63 6th is more useful unless you’re worried about gas mileage (which I am not).

The T56 Magnum is rated for 700HP/ 700TQ so should be plenty strong for what I am doing!

As a bonus even with the 3.07 stock rear end in my Dana 44 the T56 Magnum will yield acceptable gear ratios, but I think I'll swap to a 3.54 rear to get a little better low speed cruising/parking lot driving without having to be on/off the clutch as much. My CTS-V has a 2.97 1st with 3.73 rear gear and that is a bit to short so I think a 3.54 ratio will be just perfect and with my 25.4in tall tires 100kph/62mph will be at 1840rpm which seems just about right also, vs 1540rpm with the stock 3.07 rear gear...then again if costs start to get out of control that would be an easy place to save some $$$ and still have a nice driving car. My friend at the speed shop says he builds rears all the time so I just have to let him know when we get to that point if I want to swap ratios or not.

Alright guys that's all for now I'll update more later.

Krusty84

Do you know where the shifter is going to sit? My TKO 600 has an offset shifter. The tailshaft is modified and the shifter sits well to the left of centerline of the trans and allows it to be positioned in the original 4+3 location. I would think that if you install it straight up w/ the provided shifter you will have to custom fab the center console and lose the cup holders.

6.0s are screamers and while everything is in pieces, put a mild cam and spring kit in it and really bump that horsepower up.

DMITTZ

Hi Krusty,

Ya I am aware of the difficulties with shifter location, and to be honest I don't know exactly where the shifter will end up, lots of variables like what motor mounts are used, how far forward or back the engine ends up sitting etc... For sure Getting the shifter in the correct position is going to be a challenge and its one the shop is fully aware of. Prior to buying the Magnum. I checked with pretty well every major US and Canadian tremec distributor (that I know of) to see if they had an offset shifter to solve this issue... non had any solutions that they could say would likely work. So that is basically a bridge we will have to cross when we come to it.
We may have to fabricate from scratch some sort of crazy offset shifter. One of the guys at the shop is a fabricator/welder/machinist, he also works at a fab shop across the parking lot where he has access to all kinds of machining/fab equipment so hopefully he can figure something out.

Worst case my wife's uncle said he is planning to buy a T56 Magnum at some point and If I can't make it work he'll pay me what I paid for the trans so I can get a different trans if we really can't make it work but I want to try very hard to make it work as I really do want to use the T56 Magnum.

I hear ya about now being the time to do mods to the LS2/6.0L. In fact it was some of your posts that convinced me that I should at least try and get a little more power out of the engine if I'm going to all the effort of the swap so after thinking about it for a while I did end up getting a few performance parts to add a little more power to the LS2, I'll share that in an upcoming post.

Krusty84

Nice. I see the fast intake. That will be awesome. Cam and headers and woot woot, she will scream.

The guy that built my car said he was going to do a t56 at first but said it was quite a bit bigger and he didn't like the shiter location. Maybe you can raise the console area an inch or so and use an L shaped offset lever to get the **** closer to the driver.

DMITTZ

Ya For sure using the T56 Magnum will be not the easiest route but I'm sure we'll figure something out with the shifter, i'm pretty determined to keep the cup holders as I always use them but we'll see.

A couple other issues are No C-beam adapter exists for the Magnum so that will have to be custome mad and I fully expect I'll need to have a new (shorter) driveshaft made (proabbly with 1350 U-joints), then once that's done we have to made a custom hydralic line that allows use of the C4 clutch master and a T56 style slave...lots of little stuff to sort out with the trans for sure. I'm going to let the shop take the lead on that stuff and try not to micro manage them though, they are quite talented and I'm sure they'll sort it out.

If we run into major problems I'll get more hands-on involved in the nitty gritty stuff. For now I've just shared all i've learned from research with them and will let them run with it.

A big part of why I want to use the Magnum is that I want to have the ability to Shift like a hero at 6500RPM all day long and also have a trans that is easy to live with for easy street driving/crusing. It seems like the Magnum is the best GM/LS option. Also since its current production it can be easily repaired if I ever manage to break it. Hope we can make it work!

turtle96

Cool thread - will be watching your progress. My question is off topic, sorry, but is your car lowered? Both front and rear? If so how much? Thanks.

acroy

All I have to say is - GREAT looking car! C5Z rims look fantastic on C4. Good luck with the build.

jayjones

I've always liked your 88, one of the best looking cars on CF. I really hope this goes well for you. I've seen some cobbled LS swaps and one really good one. The former usually end up on craigslist so I hope yours will be the latter and please document solutions to the many challenges you're about to face.

DMITTZ

Hi turtle96, Ya both the front and rear are lowered. I've got Vansteel coilovers on the front that allow me to ajust the ride height and just used longer bolts in the rear. I'm not sure exactly how much it has been lowered. I originally had it really low, but I bottomed out a lot so I just keep playing with the ride height until it was as low as possible without bottoming out often. If I were to guess i'd say its lowered about 2.5 inches on the front and 2inches on the back.

Thanks acroy, I quite like the C5Z rims also

Thanks Jayjones, that's nice of you to say. Ya for sure I certainly hope it turns out well. I'm trying my best not to cut any corners so I really hope it turns out well.

I've spent lots of time planning (1 year) and have a pretty healthy budget, so at this point its pretty much up to the shop to do a good job and they better!

I've asked my friends that own the place to keep me updated/in the loop of the progress and send me progress pictures so I'll for sure update this thread as they give me updates.

Mike Holmen

Congrats on getting the project going David. If it was me (if I had to buy an aftermarket intake again) I would put on some cnc LS3 heads. Sell me those 0243 heads??? Its easy for me to spend someone else's money.

I second the mild cam. Those LS engine will just want to rev fast to 7000 rpm's.

DMITTZ

Hi Mike, Hope you are doing well my friend.

Yes, I for sure won't be putting a terrible stock LS2 intake on the engine. The LS3 top end was certainly an option I considered, I know they can make good power for a reasonable cost. I did end up getting a few performance pieces to get a little more out of the LS2. I'll show what I decided in an upcoming post.

Have you changed Anything recently on your car Mike? I know you said the LQ9 is a real strong runner.

The Shop that's doing the work on my Corvette is also doing a turbo LQ9 build on another car...it is going to be pretty cool.

Wish I had more room in my engine bay, to do a turbo...

Mike Holmen

Life is going awesome thanks for asking. You have lots of room for a turbo, just pick a the correct front accessories. Honestly you don't need a turbo on these cars. My near bone stock LQ9 is plenty fast for me for know. I have other projects taking my money and time, so my vette is in storage till spring.

You can make crazy LS power without a turbo. Probably stock bottom end Ls2, you probably could push a streetable 600HP pretty easy. Mix in a T-56 tremec, its going to be a winner.

hah, I just wished I could win a lottery.

DMITTZ

Glad to hear you are doing well Mike.

Ya, a turbo is probably overkill for what i'm trying to accomplish although it would be cool. I think the LS engines can make some pretty good power N/A anyway. I'm also trying to run a A/C system again with this swap, so that does make things a bit more crowded in the engine bay. Ya for sure winning the lottery would be great!

All the best to you Mike

DMITTZ

So now that I had the engine and transmission it was time to start collecting all the smaller parts needed for this swap.

I have an LS7 clutch in my CTS-V and for daily driving that works great but IMHO it would not stand up well to racing/hard driving.

I wanted a clutch that could be driven hard, take lots of power and still have good street manners. So I called up Monster Clutch in Texas to talk about my needs and although its over kill I decided to go with their LT1-S Twin-disc organic clutch. It’s rated for 700hp/700TQ.

According to Monster clutch it should have stock like pedal pressure and street manners but can take a lot of abuse and HP. I was also advised that the 4th gen F-body version would be best for what i'm doing.

So I ordered one of their LT1-S Twin disc clutches. I ordered it with the standard weight flywheel. I currently have an Aluminum flywheel on my 88' and hate it, it sounded good in theory but in reality it just makes it a pain to drive, so I won't make that mistake again!





One nice thing is the clutch kit also includes a matching flywheel, all require bolts, Slave cylinder/throw-out bearing and I also had them add an 18in long remote bleeder hose.

Interestingly with this clutch you must use the provided bolts or it voids the 1 year warranty. ARP bolts are specifically NOT to be used.

To go along with the clutch I also picked up a 4th gen F-body reproduction Bellhousing.




I also picked up a 31 spline T56 magnum Yoke.



I decided to powder coat the Yoke so it doesn't corrode.

turtle96

Thanks for the info!

Gotta agree with you both - those wheels catch my eye on the C4 every time. They look great.

VikingTrad3r

Everything you have done with your 88 so far has been top class. Looking forward to watching and learning.

VT

Bfenty

This is looking to be a fascinating build. I'm looking forward to seeing more of it.

DMITTZ

Your very welcome, thanks I really like the wheels also. To my eye they work nicely with the paint color.

Thanks VT that's nice of you to say, I hope the LS swap will turn out as well as my last projects/builds. It will be a real learning experience for me as well prior to this a knew very little about LS stuff. I have to admit it was a little hard to hand over the project to the Shop but i'm sure the guys there will do a good job.

Thanks Bfenty, Ya it is going to be an interesting journey. I'll for sure keep everyone updated.