B84RADR

Hey, do you have a minute? I could really use some of your advice from my fellow Corvette owners.

It's been the week from hell. You probably read in a post a week ago that my car was broken into while on the repair shop's lot and the repair shop didn't want to fix it. I'm still working on this and have consulted an attorney.

The reason why I'm posting today is because I need help for a "What would you do" scenario.

So my head gasket's blown. $2,000 repair, that's why it's on the lot. They had to send the "valve heads" (because I don't know what else to call it) to be re-milled. Well that is done and back to the shop, then they call me today and tell me the engine block is warped and will need to be re-milled as well or I run the risk of blowing another head gasket. Another $2,000 estimated.

I had them show me what they were talking about and it looked legit. There are also copper shavings between both sets of valves resting on the block in the middle indicating my bearings are going. Yuk, what else could go wrong.

So I'm ready to sell it and sign off of Corvettes. It's just been a freaking nightmare.

Here is a list of what I've had to fix in the last 18 months:
Transmission failed - professional rebuilt it 6 months ago
Exhaust system had holes, replaced with Borla Y pipe and two Flowmasters
Head Gasket blown, getting it fixed right now
Re-milled Valve block (will have to re-mill the engine block and check bearings because there are copper shavings present)
Starter went bad, replaced
Alternator died, replaced
Fuel Pump died, replaced professionally
U-joints failed in the rear, replaced professionally
Shocks, replaced professionally (well, this is just maintenance as far as I'm concerned)
Digital Dash had a bad draw on the system, rebuilt it 4 months ago
They had to rip apart the whole rear end of this car to fix a horrible grinding noise in the rear axle. Then they didn't put enough "Posi Fluid" in it and had to take it back to get it fixed again

I'm just fed up with it. What do I do? My wife is going to personally pour kerosene on it and throw a match. Take out a home equity loan to fix it then sell it?

My main question: Have I invested so much into this now is there much more that can go wrong?

What would you do in my shoes? That's the opinion and advice I'm after from other fellow Corvette owners. Please advise.


Below you will find links to my car and what it looks like at the present time if you are interested.

Here is what damage the thief did to my door breaking in. Any suggestions on where to buy a new handle?
Driver's Side Lock

Here is the "Y-Pipe" that I had asked about a week ago. One question. Is it really necessary to fix it? What function will be degraded by not fixing the hole in it? I'm totally strapped for cash right now and my wife is ready to kill me. I just have to remind her and myself it's not my fault this is happening. Can you identify the name of this part so I can do some looking around for parts and pricing?
Y-Pipe

Here's a close-up of the Y-Pipe
Y-Pipe Close-Up

Here is the Passenger's Side, where the head gasket actually blew.
Passenger Side Engine Block

Here is the Driver's Side of the Engine Block. It is worn in between the pistons. If you put a level on it, there is leakage on both sides.
Driver Side Engine Block

In advance, I'd like to thank you each for taking the time to care about this. I'm totally sick to my stomach, literally. I'm just aching. Let me know what you think should be done...Fix it? Fix it and sell it? Don't fix it and give it to the Kidney Foundation?

Take care,
Shayne



[Modified by sspackman, 3:32 PM 10/28/2002]

oldjoe

I'm sorry to hear about all the trouble you've had. As far as what to do is strictly up to you and how much you can handle. Most of us Vette lovers(I think) have other cars for daily transportation and use the Vettes mostly for fun cruises on nice days. Also, it helps the pocketbook, in my case at least, to do most or all of the work ourselves. It has taken me several years to learn how to do this, but it helps not to think of this as work but rather as a hobby. I'd keep it!! Joe :chevy :chevy

B84RADR

Thankfully I have an '84 Toyota Corolla to drive as well, but with 219,000 miles on it you can imagine how fun it is to drive. Scares me to pull out into traffic without a good head start for fear of cutting someone off! :)

I need to have a bumper sticker on it that says something along the lines of "This will be the last thing you read before you slam into me" or "Take it easy, it's already floored."

Thanks for the post!

sinistervette

As president of the Kidney Foundation, I'd be honored to have you donate to P*S to us. Actually, give me your address and I will personally some and pick it up saving you from any more headaches or costs! :D :lol: :lol:
Seriously, have you any friends that are somewhat mechanically inclined? Could they help you fix it yourself? Have you taken the car to someone else to get another opinion? Your service garage sounds suspicious to me. I personally would pull the car out of the place it is currently at, and take it to a friends or another garage. I would have left right after they said they had no coverage for your car being broken into. I wouldn't sell it, take some time and look around for another garage or a friend that is willing to help you fix it, it will save you lots and also make it easier when and if something goes wrong again. :cheers:
By the way, if you are going to donate it, I WILL COME AND PICK IT UP! :D

aj1988

A quick way to check the block is to get a metal straight-edge and lay over the deck and look for high/low spots. If the block seems fairly even, then get a good set of gaskets and you shouldn't really have a problem. I have torn down quite a few s/b and yours really looks pretty good (I am basing this on a picture and that won't have the detail real life has). Do you have a friend that is familiar with engines? If so, then take him/her with you to look the engine over.

I think you have a problem as far as the shop being totally honest. If they won't fix the damage caused while in their shop, I think you should have the car picked up and taken to another shop to finish the work. To me personally they would be suspect about what they are telling you is wrong with your car. Pay them for the tear down, having the heads redone, and then move it to someone new to give you a honest opinion on decking the block and then assembling the rest of the engine.

I don't recognize the metal hose you have a picture of. I will take a look at my car tonight and try to figure out what it is. If I can I will post tomorrow. Good luck.

jmr302

It sounds like you should get this car fixed and then sell the thing. There are still plenty more things that could go wrong. Everything on your list is pretty typical, probably even the cylinder head issues, for an early C4. You are dealing with a 17 year old car. Things like exhaust leaks and failed starters are par for the course. If you can't afford to pay someone else to do the repairs and can't do them yourself then I'd say it's time to get out of this game and move on to something newer. There's no dishonor in that.

MrNuke

How old is that engine that it has a blown gasket? Did you drive the car hard? is that why the Tranny and engine are shot? How long have you owned her? I would never sell my vette, even if I'd blow the engine AND tranny tomorrow. I'd sit in the garage for prolly a year, but I'd be MIEN and still back on the road when I could afford a used engine/tranny at minimum.
Your car looks liek it is in very nice shape. Why not replace the engine/tranny with a used one for les than 1/2 the cost of what they are trying to 'fix' your stuff for?

Bruthish

I agree with the above members on Getting the thing out of that shop its at. It sounds to me that they have no sympathy for having your vette broke into...they should atleast try the best they can on getting your car running at a good price. If they want to charge you over $4000 for "work" on your motor..you may want to consider buying another from a wrecked car or a crate motor, at least one wit a warranty. Also, keep in mind that almost ALL things break....fact of life, when you own an older car, something WILL break.

dizwiz24

if you buy a shop manual, scan tool, have a garage, have tools (or can get to some), and stay a member of this website where you can get advice more valuable than gold and learn to do all the work yourself...keep it

This is your most rewarding option....


on the other side...

if you have to let other people diagnose / repair every problem, or don't have a garage/facilities to work on it....sell it...you are going to have lots of hassles with people not knowing how to work on it, overcharging (since its a Corvette), messing stuff up because they are unfamiliar with the car, and charging you to fix it the right way when they screwed it up to begin with...

Thats the best piece of advice I can give you.

You are smarter than the high-school dropouts that you pay big bucks to them (and the shop owners) to work on your car. so do it yourself.

B84RADR

I can't believe how much I have learned from this board and all of the kind people that post to it. Someone, somewhere always seems to have an idea for the most odd things.

As for the manual, I bought one! It's come in handy on so many occasions!! I have saved a lot of cash using it and I'm very willing to dive in. With it being a head gasket, I pretty much figured I'd be in over my head on this one. And I think I am right from the looks of how much of my car has been torn apart to get to the heads. Heck, I fix computer problems for a living and can understand this really well, you'd think I could understand a car better. They are all machines when it comes down to it, cars just have more moving parts!

Thanks all for the posts! Please keep them coming.

Too Slow '90

Keep it. What are you going to do with a car and no engine? With all of the cash invested you'll take a real pounding and with the C4 market the way it is it'll only be worse. Unless of course you parted it. If you don't need to drive it now wait & try your hand or find a buddy to help you. What's could happen? The car doesn't run? It doesn't friggin' run now! Don't buy what the shop is telling you. Be patient grasshopper. :yesnod: :chevy

B84RADR

I really appreciate all of the responses.

I may just take it from the lot that is working on it right now and try to put the thing back together. They had been pretty reasonable to deal with in the past until this happened.

If I am going to put it back together myself, is there a better book than the red Hayes book that I've used? I'm very willing to read and I would consider myself to be pretty handy with this stuff. It's just new to me, that's all. And I'm willing to learn. Hell with computers I pretty much just jumped right in and now I have a job supporting my family good enough that my wife can stay at home with our three (yes, three) kids. The kids love the Vette too ;)

WAY2FAST

I empathize with you big time, my friend. My profession is similar to yours, as it is not engine shop related! I am a Senior Cisco Engineer (CCIE) and I have a very "techie" job to say the least. I understand exactly where you are coming from. Just a few years ago, I moved out to a very large country parcel, with a nice ranch house, plenty of horses, dogs and the like. I quickly learn how much difficult life could be just a few minutes from town but living "kinda country". I started tinkering around with small engines, (mostly to fix them when things broke) - while I have an engineering degree, it has been quite some years and time departed from the sterile atmosphere of the clean lab. :-D Long story - short (Am I too late?)
I restored 3 old 50+ year old farm tractors and started learning more and more about engines, equipment & tools.

While I have only had my vette for a relatively short time, it is a good toy to have and I am relatively confident that I can fix a good amount of problems with it. BTW, I agree completely with dizman ----

1. If you are going to be driving your car down to the shop and getting taken to the bank each time there is a problem then sell the car NOW! Based upon your last 18months, it looks like you are the proverbial "fall guy" for the car. Your are the bather in the sea of repairs. Get out of the bathtub my friend but ALL of your money goes down that drain!

2. If you are going to be able to locate a friend that you can trust that can show you some good mechanical/electrical automotive lessons/tips or you think you can handle it with the help of this board and some good manuals, then go for it. (keep in mind - tools, workshop, lighting, time etc to work/repair the car)

I personally feel VERY STRONGLY that before you lay down a good $2K+ on this used 85 engine, I would consider getting a nice crate unit with a warranty - HELL - even a nice rebuilt or slightly used engine on Ebay is more attractive. There is one on there now - a new 383 (like mine) that a guy just loaded +$6K into that is just at about $1,800 with no reserve. Don't take a $2,000 bath on something that will leave you in somewhat of the same shape that you were before. Sneak around (well you don't have to sneak unless you want to) :rolleyes: the junkyards and the local ads and possibly Ebay ads if you live in a decent sized city you might be lucky.

Bottomline: I wish you the best my friend. Keep this in perspective. You have your family, your health and your life in front of you. Don't let this minor setback affect your life or your mindset. Keep in mind that it is only a car and your family, your relationship with your wife & your own sense of peace must override any monetary or egotistical gains that could be ever met with any vehicle. Corvette or not.

Good luck, my friend.
-=W2F=-

Too Slow '90

Not sure which manuals are the best. I would guess the factory and Chiltons but I'm sure there are plenty on the forum who can help. Kids dig the vette huh? Your wife can't torch it if your kids love it. If she does remember... it was in perfect condition with a bazillion dollars in mods... all of which your policy will cover!!! Just Kidding!! :lol: :chevy

B84RADR

I'm guessing that there are a number of publications out there with information on fixing these things right and what to watch for while doing it.

The $2K that was quoted...that was for pulling out the engine and re-surfacing the block. My engine is a 383 as well. But the biggest chunk of that $2K is labor. All up, this shop told me that to have it completely fixed, it was going to be around $4000. That's the hard part.

Again, I'm willing to get my hands dirty. I'll probably need some tools but mostly you guys. I already have some tools to work on it with. There are many things I've fixed myself. I just felt like I was in way over my head with a valve job that turns into a nightmare.

I'm going to call the shop tomorrow to find out what I'm into this car so far and then have it towed to my home where likely it will sit all winter, unless I get really ambitious.

Thanks for all of the posts! I really appreciate people that have empathized with me on here and know what I'm going through. I love to tinker with things in general though so by the time this is over, I will have a much better understanding of what I'm working on. That alone is worth it to me. Unless the car falls of the jacks while I'm under it that is. :sad:

Aggravated4life

Shayne,
Its a tough call to say depending on finances and etc.I also feel theyre charging way too much money for the work needed.A full basic rebuild on a SBC is around 1500 - 2000 for everything done.
That includes decking and milling and the other big words they use for it.

If theyre only fixing the heads and want the block milled,it shouldnt cost another 2,000 bucks.It wont take much labor time to remove the block now and have a machine shop finish the milling process.In fact,it would probably be cheaper to have the engine and heads dropped off at the machine shop and let them fix and reassemble it themselves for a negotiated price.

Then all the repair shop or you has to do is bolt it back in the car and get it running.

I pulled my engine a few years back and got it rebuild,2nd time around(another story) and the engine shop tore the engine down and rebuild it again.They even came to my house to pick it up and drop off when done.It was about 1550 for everything.

It wasnt a high performance rebuild with expensive forged parts or anything but was decent for the money.
I didnt have to do anything to the engine except put it back in,hook the TPI and motor stuffs etc back where they go,fill with coolant and oil,prime the engine,then fire it up by setting the timing and running to break in the new cam.

Didnt have to adjust the valves or anything else.

I guess what im saying is there are other alternatives to paying someone top dollar labor rates for every bitty job.
And yes you CAN do it yourself...and it also helps to have someone who knows a bit more help you.maybe another forum member.Removing the engine was pretty easy and once you get the basic idea,its the first step towards saving alot of money.
Good Luck and keep us posted with what you do.
:)

eddieL98

first thing get it away from that shop! if you have a place to store it and it's not your daily, just keep it there. cover it up and forget it for a week. trust me you are to stressed over this. find a manula and read over what you have to do. i know i will look overwellming but it's nto.
i'm a beginer like you. i was lucky enough to have a buddy that knew engines when my TA died. my 79 had a 403 olds i couln't afford to rebuil. bought a crate motor for about 2k, plus 1k for misc parts(but keep in mind i couldn't use old parts diffrent set up) i learned a lot dropping that engine in. first which direction a flywheel goes...lol but anyways we just went step by step, peice by peice.
after reading you manual, look for the parts you need. junk yard hop on your spare time. ok being single i don't understand free time relative to having 3 kids. a few hours on the weekend you might find some good parts. remember an L98 is just a chevy 350.

as for the exhaust my opinion is worth very little on this. back when i had the TA, i ran out of cash at the headers. luck for me i was stationed in Ga and it was sorta ok to run like that for a few paydays....lol had to avoid base police a lot :jester
but hey goodluck rebuilding it, you should have a lot of fun, well after it's all done and you look back at things.

Ramanstud

I'll give you $500 for it....

seriously!

:lol:

lfmn16

I may not know much about cars, but I know when I'm being screwed! I find it awfully suspicious that they didn't notice that the engine block was warped until AFTER they had you in for $2,000. I agree with the members who suggested that you run like a rabbit from that shop.

As to keeping it or selling it, I recommend that you set a limit for how much you are willing to spend on the car. If you hit that limit, sell it and cut your losses. Otherwise you'll get sucked in dollar by dollar. I had a car in the 70's that did that to me. There almost wasn't anything else to replace and finally I said that's it .. it's outta here!!! The guy that bought it from me probably didn't put 10 cents into it for the next four years.

I bought my vette with 140,000 miles. I've set my limit as to how much I'll spend in repairs and when I hit it, I'm parking the car until I sell it. So far, I've been the luckiest SOB on the forum. Of course the fact that it's absolute stock and I drive it like an old lady probably helps!

darkcarn85

When I get fed up, I just walk away from it for a year to clear my head, and get priorities straight. I just tell people, "I'd rather own a Corvette and not drive it, than not own a Corvette and not drive it!" Then one day I walk into the garage, and the Fever takes grip again! You seriously need another shop, though, and a better daily driver that makes you feel better about driving, the world, and yourself! :seeya