0ski_dwn_it

Well after beating my head in, or more rightly, I should say beating a dead horse for the last 6 months. The verdict has come down for my engine.

Spoke with the guy at the shop. They did the leakdown test and have come up with the following:

1. Valves are leaking!
2. Rings are leaking!

I immediately said the valves, they are only 6 months old. He said that the aluminum heads are natorious for not holding the first vavle job very long. He said once the heads have been heated/cooled several times they settle down. He said the second valve job last much longer.

As for the rings, well I guess that is just regular wear and tear. I figured that that was part of the problem.

I guess the good news is he said he could refresh the engine for $1K.

I have the utmost confidence in his shop. He said he was surprised that the car was running low 13's /high 12's with the rings and valves leaking that bad. He said after the refresh, he will bet it might hit the 11's. He said he can throw a few tricks he knows at the reassembly of the engine to boost it a touch more.

Back in the late 70's-early 80's they had the national drag racing record for their class their car was running in.

He said he would not take the engine out though. He said that the leakdown was a nightmare to perform.

So you guys tell me if you think this is a fair price. I'm sure he will replace all necessary parts, bearings, etc.

He said the engine will be totally refreshed, and assembled for $1k. ( wait till he gets to the SR for reassembly :lol: That in itself is a 1K value not to have to do it myslf) If I wanted to get some better components, then he could put better pistons etc.

What do you guys think?

I am inbetween jobs right now. So I hate to throw a ton of money at the engine for a 383 etc. I guess what I am saying is this. If I can get the car to run low 12 with a 1K refresher. I could not justify several thousand more for a 383, just to gain a few more tenths or 30 more horsepower. If I feel the need for more power then nitrous will be added for 500 bucks.

You guys follow my logic? I would like to hear what you fellas think.

I am actually relieved to hear it wasn't something I put together wrong. Its just a damn shame I probably will not get to realize the potential of this setup this summer. He said he could not start work on the engine till after the circle track season (that is what they are racing in now) is over.

So do you think I should wait till the cash flow is a little more availible for a 383 or just have the refresher done?

Thank you all for your help in trying to get the engine straightened out. I learned a ton from this experience. I have only one regret. Not taking the engine to them before I did the work, and having them diagnose the base engine.

Live and learn I guess.
:cheers:


[Modified by ski_dwn_it, 9:40 AM 8/30/2002]

olephart

Since you trust them, I wouldn't even think twice. Most shops would pull the engine and that alone would be $500-1000.

0ski_dwn_it

Its not a big deal for me to pull the engine. My parent own a car dealership and I have all the lifts and tools at my expense whenever I need them. Kinda makes it easier from that perspective.

At first I thought it would be 1000 for just the refresher work, then I would have to reassemble the upper 1/2. When he said it would be ready to put in the car, I thought, man that is pretty cheap.

MrJay

It sounds like the engine is doing good with leaking valves and springs so I would just waite until you have the money to do it like you want it.
$1000 is not much for a rebuid with parts but if you go to a 383 it will cost you much more I think I would just run the car like it is until the raceing is over and then do it like you want it and then you will have more money to do it too.

Jay

Corvette0096

Sounds like a good deal to me.. :cheers:

Vic'89

Nice update. Atleast you know what the problems are.
And 1K to freshen the motor and assembly the motor is a great price.

But what I don't understand is how the valves are leaking ? These are new AFR heads, right ?

Vic

ralph

$1000 to refresh your heads and replace your rings is a steal. like you said the SR alone will take several hours. heck i just had my heads refreshed and that cost me over $600 and i brought them the heads and supplied the parts. replacing the rings without pulling the engine may not the be the best practice, but i've seen it done with good results.

btw, what was the leakdown? like i told you in an earlier post, i had 3 bad cyls (over 15% leak down and weak compression) and still ran good numbers (until the head gasket finally let go). My valves were also leaking a bit too with the heads only a couple of years and maybe 5000miles old. Turned out i had two bent valves, probably as a result of an unexpected trip to over 7000 rpms once. How many miles on the engine? and were you burning oil? i'm a little surprised the rings are bad enough to kill performance without showing obvious signs. Beach Bum had like 180,000 miles on his engine, and i'm sure my rings are not 100% either.

All that said, if you are serious about building a 383 in the not too distant future, wait and do the entire project at once. If you dont have the $ and dont know where/when it will come from, just fix what you got. If you get it running to it's potential, it's a pretty good combo as is.

Good luck...whatever you do


[Modified by ralph, 9:36 AM 8/30/2002]

scorp508

Hop on top of that thing like the prom queen!!!! :cheers:

Hole-Shot

$1000. !! Do It !

When does the circle track season end by you?

Good Luck!

MrNuke

Wish I had some1 aroudn me to do that for 1K.
For gods sake they quoted me like $900 just to replace the CAM in the
car.. bah..

MrJay

Most guys get about $750 for just to put the engine to gether, so that is not much, I guess there are not many parts that nead to be changed.

Jay

HighHopes85

Is he going to hone the cyls for the new rings? If so, I hope that the block gets super-clean after he does it. Seems like the crank would also have to go to make sure the honing was consistent at the bottom of the cyls. :confused: Good luck, -Matt-

0ski_dwn_it

Guys,

I will have to pull the engine and then re-install it after they do the engine work.

They are gonna re-assemble it from bottom to top with all new bearings, etc.

When I got there I spoke with his son. He said that the engine was leaking about 20% on 3 of the cylinders, and ~50% on the other one one that side. He said that he did not even bother to check the passengers side ones. He said he would have had another 2.5-3.5 hours in labor due to the AC bracket.

I agreed that the other side would have been just an exersice in futility.

He also thinks that the valves are probably gonna be OK. His dad thinks that the valves should be checked and re-touched up while they are off just to be on the safe side. I agreed that while they are off, I want it to be right the next time.

This leads me to my next dilema that I need quick help with right away. The car is sitting along the freakin road about 30 miles from here! Dad went to get the trailor.

Check my other post out...Thanks. I heard it said to someone else, but I really am starting to believe its true with me: "God Hates Me"

MrJay

What is your next dilema, I thought I was the only one that had this much bad luck, I guess Im not the only one with bad luck.
How did it go at the track yesterday?

Jay

0ski_dwn_it

its posted go check :cry
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=376890

Dad ran at 11.46 at 117 MPH. He might have had one other one a tad bit quicker, but that is it for the most part. I get sick when I see that he spent 6400.00 dollars for that engine complete. I should have just bought one of them and paid to have the necessary mods done to make it fit. Christ I would probably be real close to 10's with it. Oh well, everyone must learn the hard way.

fullboogie

In my humble opinion, your mechanic is feeding you bullpoopie about aluminum heads not holding a valve job. What crap! I've NEVER heard of such a thing, and I've run aluminum heads (AFR, TFS, World) on several different cars. The valve seats are not aluminum - every valve has a pressed or pinned insert for the valve seat, making the seat as strong/stronger than an iron head. 6 month old heads absolutely should not have a valve sealing problem! :mad

0ski_dwn_it

His boy clarified what he said over the phone when I questioned him about the seats going so fast. He said they would have them checked just to make sure. His gut feel is that all the losses are from the rings. But better safe than sorry.

QuickVet

i say go for the cheap refresh work :smash:

how is a leakdown test dont?

and how do you replace the rings without pulling the motor? :confused:

John Row

To say nothing of the later L98 the LT1, LT5, LS1, LS6. Valves are fine.

How many miles on the rings?


[Modified by John Row, 5:22 PM 8/30/2002]

AquaMetallic94LT1

Your shop might be partially right about the heads. My machinest here told me that ALL of the aftermarket head mfrs are putting out substandard work these days. The symptoms you are having are pretty much line up with what he has been seeing. Heads go on and have to come off after 6 months or so. The heads and components are good for the most part but the seats and guides are frequently not machined correctly. Valve jobs work fine on aluminum heads as demonstrated by all the stock heads IF the work is done correctly.

I bet the problem is seat runnout on several or all of the cylinders. The bottom end of the motor including the rings is probably okay. I suggest you have the heads completely redone and put in new valve springs. Check the valve tips on the exhaust for wear. Mine were worn by the rockers because they were not hardened. I had valve float using the AFR springs with the LT4 hot cam.

I discoverd all of this because I recently had to pull my motor apart to fix a wiped out cam bearing. I also found that the piston side wall clearance was too tight which caused hots spots to appear on the piston thrust side. The total machine work came to 1800 bucks with 1200 going to the heads.


[Modified by AquaMetallic94LT1, 3:42 PM 8/30/2002]