383 Stroker - On a Budget?
07-27-2014, 02:58 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
383 Stroker - On a Budget?
I'd like to stroke my 350 L98 to 383. However, my budget is fairly limited. I'm looking to do this for cheap, but I don't want to cut corners if I can help it. I'd like to do it for around $1000. I would do all of the work myself, except for anything requiring specialized equipment or skills. I'm getting conflicting information on whether or not this is possible, so I'm looking for a breakdown of the costs so I can decide for myself. Here's what I have so far:
As far as machining work goes, I'm having trouble getting an estimate and I'm not even entirely sure what I'd need to have done. I've heard allusion to other things that would need to be done beside overboring, but like I said I'm looking for a line-by-line breakdown.
I'm from Northern CA if that has any bearing on prices.
Can anyone provide further insight into costs?
I'd also appreciate any money-saving tips.
As far as machining work goes, I'm having trouble getting an estimate and I'm not even entirely sure what I'd need to have done. I've heard allusion to other things that would need to be done beside overboring, but like I said I'm looking for a line-by-line breakdown.
I'm from Northern CA if that has any bearing on prices.
Can anyone provide further insight into costs?
I'd also appreciate any money-saving tips.
Last edited by C4ProjectCar; 07-27-2014 at 03:05 AM.
07-27-2014, 03:28 AM
#2
I'd like to stroke my 350 L98 to 383. However, my budget is fairly limited. I'm looking to do this for cheap, but I don't want to cut corners if I can help it. I'd like to do it for around $1000. I would do all of the work myself, except for anything requiring specialized equipment or skills. I'm getting conflicting information on whether or not this is possible, so I'm looking for a breakdown of the costs so I can decide for myself. Here's what I have so far:
As far as machining work goes, I'm having trouble getting an estimate and I'm not even entirely sure what I'd need to have done. I've heard allusion to other things that would need to be done beside overboring, but like I said I'm looking for a line-by-line breakdown.
I'm from Northern CA if that has any bearing on prices.
Can anyone provide further insight into costs?
I'd also appreciate any money-saving tips.
As far as machining work goes, I'm having trouble getting an estimate and I'm not even entirely sure what I'd need to have done. I've heard allusion to other things that would need to be done beside overboring, but like I said I'm looking for a line-by-line breakdown.
I'm from Northern CA if that has any bearing on prices.
Can anyone provide further insight into costs?
I'd also appreciate any money-saving tips.
Tommy
07-27-2014, 04:03 AM
#3
Instructor
Member Since: Nov 2011
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nope nope nope. 1k might cover half the parts and some of the machine work. plan for 3k min. gonna need a new oil pump, gaskets, tune, bore and clearance the block, line bore, balance you stoker kit, true the block, seals, broken or old sensors, 383 kit, bearings, freeze plugs, coolant, oil, sealant, plugs new push rods, head work. ( i could go on but you get the point)
Good luck. Do what i did do it right the first time and don't cut 1 corner and plan to go bigger. ( forged for when i go with boost.)
Remember its always cheaper to do it right the first time then to have to redo the job because you went cheap the first time.
I'm from norcal also and one of the biggest troubles i had was finding a good reputable machinist that could do my block and heads for a reasonable price. I went with Metcalfe machine and he did a great job but i had to ride his *** the whole time or it would have taken a year. Also he worked with me on the parts so we could work out the best cost.
Good luck. Do what i did do it right the first time and don't cut 1 corner and plan to go bigger. ( forged for when i go with boost.)
Remember its always cheaper to do it right the first time then to have to redo the job because you went cheap the first time.
I'm from norcal also and one of the biggest troubles i had was finding a good reputable machinist that could do my block and heads for a reasonable price. I went with Metcalfe machine and he did a great job but i had to ride his *** the whole time or it would have taken a year. Also he worked with me on the parts so we could work out the best cost.
Last edited by lozer; 07-27-2014 at 04:09 AM.
07-27-2014, 01:52 PM
#5
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
07-27-2014, 02:29 PM
#7
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
It will work.
It won't go any faster, but it will FEEL "tough".
It won't go any faster, but it will FEEL "tough".
07-27-2014, 02:56 PM
#8
Team Owner
Member Since: Aug 2005
Location: Riverside County Southern California
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07-27-2014, 03:59 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...e030/overview/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SB-CHEVY-383-STROKER-PERF-MASTER-ENGINE-KIT-NEW-CRANK-PISTONS-MOLY-RINGS-/360608914639?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f5f75ccf&vxp=mtrAs a side note, the Summit kit says it's for SBC Gen I, yet it lists a late year of 1985. The L98 is Gen I, correct?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'goals'. Sorry, but could you elaborate a little bit?
Here are, as I understand you thus far, my goals:
Geardo, I realize the cam is too small, but nearly all stroker kits come with a new cam. I also know the intake is too small, but based on what I've read that shouldn't be too much of a problem until higher RPMs. At some point down the road, I plan to upgrade to the FIRST TPI intake, but it costs $1000. From what I've learned so far, it seems like I would get better performance from a stroker with the stock intake than a 350 with the FIRST TPI intake. Not to mention the fact that a stroker is internal so avoids scrutiny on smog.
07-27-2014, 08:22 PM
#10
I understand this is a budget thread and the other is a non-boring stroker thread, but this could have been put into one thread....just saying for future reference........both threads have a common theme; you want a 383 stroker engine and looking for costs, and how to do it basically....right??
good luck with your build.
good luck with your build.
07-27-2014, 08:56 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
I understand this is a budget thread and the other is a non-boring stroker thread, but this could have been put into one thread....just saying for future reference........both threads have a common theme; you want a 383 stroker engine and looking for costs, and how to do it basically....right??
good luck with your build.
good luck with your build.
I just thought that it would be good to have the title reflecting the current topic of discussion.
Well, initially I wanted to see if I could do it without overboring, but then I decided that overboring was the way to go so now I am looking more for how to do it for cheap than for how to do it without overboring.
07-27-2014, 09:06 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Maybe so, but it sounds like the OP wants a street car that is fun to drive and the torque is the ticket. Even if it is just a stock intake, it'll make a lot of torque off the TPI system. He can always open the stock system up a little bit with some porting. He's in California, he might want to reach out to Cuisinart, who could really help him out opening up the stock intake. Seems like upgrading either cam or intake would then require the other to follow as well.
07-27-2014, 09:22 PM
#13
Instructor
I haven't quite decided which stroker kit - this thread is to help me decide. However, here are a couple I'm looking at.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...e030/overview/
SB Chevy 383 Stroker Perf Master Engine Kit New Crank Pistons Moly Rings | eBay
As a side note, the Summit kit says it's for SBC Gen I, yet it lists a late year of 1985. The L98 is Gen I, correct?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'goals'. Sorry, but could you elaborate a little bit?
Here are, as I understand you thus far, my goals:
Geardo, I realize the cam is too small, but nearly all stroker kits come with a new cam. I also know the intake is too small, but based on what I've read that shouldn't be too much of a problem until higher RPMs. At some point down the road, I plan to upgrade to the FIRST TPI intake, but it costs $1000. From what I've learned so far, it seems like I would get better performance from a stroker with the stock intake than a 350 with the FIRST TPI intake. Not to mention the fact that a stroker is internal so avoids scrutiny on smog.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...e030/overview/
SB Chevy 383 Stroker Perf Master Engine Kit New Crank Pistons Moly Rings | eBay
As a side note, the Summit kit says it's for SBC Gen I, yet it lists a late year of 1985. The L98 is Gen I, correct?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'goals'. Sorry, but could you elaborate a little bit?
Here are, as I understand you thus far, my goals:
Geardo, I realize the cam is too small, but nearly all stroker kits come with a new cam. I also know the intake is too small, but based on what I've read that shouldn't be too much of a problem until higher RPMs. At some point down the road, I plan to upgrade to the FIRST TPI intake, but it costs $1000. From what I've learned so far, it seems like I would get better performance from a stroker with the stock intake than a 350 with the FIRST TPI intake. Not to mention the fact that a stroker is internal so avoids scrutiny on smog.
However, I suspect the performance gain would disappoint you, after spending that much money and that much time. Both the intake and exhaust are very restrictive on these cars, bottlenecks at both ends, so adding displacement will have substantially less effect than you might expect.
I would suggest another strategy: pick the low hanging fruit first. For example, some TPI Vette folks have reported as much as a 10% gain from exhaust alone. This is a great place to start, as it's something you'll really have to do down the road anyway, you can add performance and fuel economy at the same time, and the performance gain will feel even bigger than it is because the car will sound more aggressive. Also, any mods you do to your engine in the future will be more effective with the improved exhaust setup.
The intake is another place that you could get about 10%, but it would end up being more expensive than your stated budget unless you score a really good deal on parts.
Lastly, remember that the C4 TPI is just a good ol' SBC 350, but the fuel injection setup bolted on top makes it very much more complicated to build for power. Trading in the TPI is a reasonable strategy, but the other options are limited by hood clearance.
Lots of shade-tree mechanics can build a 383 to make 400+ hp for fairly cheap, but have them try to get it to make that power under a TPI (or even the Vette hood) and it's a totally different story.
Good Luck.
07-27-2014, 09:31 PM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
I would submit that it is probably possible to put in a stroker kit for between $1000 and $1500 if you do your homework, get good deals on parts, do all of the work yourself, and don't need machine work.
However, I suspect the performance gain would disappoint you, after spending that much money and that much time. Both the intake and exhaust are very restrictive on these cars, bottlenecks at both ends, so adding displacement will have substantially less effect than you might expect.
I would suggest another strategy: pick the low hanging fruit first. For example, some TPI Vette folks have reported as much as a 10% gain from exhaust alone. This is a great place to start, as it's something you'll really have to do down the road anyway, you can add performance and fuel economy at the same time, and the performance gain will feel even bigger than it is because the car will sound more aggressive. Also, any mods you do to your engine in the future will be more effective with the improved exhaust setup.
The intake is another place that you could get about 10%, but it would end up being more expensive than your stated budget unless you score a really good deal on parts.
Lastly, remember that the C4 TPI is just a good ol' SBC 350, but the fuel injection setup bolted on top makes it very much more complicated to build for power. Trading in the TPI is a reasonable strategy, but the other options are limited by hood clearance.
Lots of shade-tree mechanics can build a 383 to make 400+ hp for fairly cheap, but have them try to get it to make that power under a TPI (or even the Vette hood) and it's a totally different story.
Good Luck.
However, I suspect the performance gain would disappoint you, after spending that much money and that much time. Both the intake and exhaust are very restrictive on these cars, bottlenecks at both ends, so adding displacement will have substantially less effect than you might expect.
I would suggest another strategy: pick the low hanging fruit first. For example, some TPI Vette folks have reported as much as a 10% gain from exhaust alone. This is a great place to start, as it's something you'll really have to do down the road anyway, you can add performance and fuel economy at the same time, and the performance gain will feel even bigger than it is because the car will sound more aggressive. Also, any mods you do to your engine in the future will be more effective with the improved exhaust setup.
The intake is another place that you could get about 10%, but it would end up being more expensive than your stated budget unless you score a really good deal on parts.
Lastly, remember that the C4 TPI is just a good ol' SBC 350, but the fuel injection setup bolted on top makes it very much more complicated to build for power. Trading in the TPI is a reasonable strategy, but the other options are limited by hood clearance.
Lots of shade-tree mechanics can build a 383 to make 400+ hp for fairly cheap, but have them try to get it to make that power under a TPI (or even the Vette hood) and it's a totally different story.
Good Luck.
I was under the impression that the intake and exhaust are less of an issue at the lower RPMs I'd be driving in?
I already plan to do exhaust, but like I said I'm in CA so an aftermarket intake would require me swapping the old one back on every 2 years for smog.
The purpose of this project car is for me to become more proficient at wrenching, and I felt like stroking an engine (essentially an engine rebuild) would be a good way to accomplish this. Additionally, the engine has 160,000 on it and I believe has some low oil pressure problems (not running at the moment, so I can't tell if I fixed it yet), so I felt like replacing the components I'd have to in order to stroke it would be beneficial.
I'm not interested in top-end horsepower, I just want low to mid-range torque for fun driving. All of the intake/exhaust upgrade numbers I can find are just in horsepower, I presume top-end. Which upgrades instead of a stroker would you recommend for the best "bang-for-buck" low-end torque?
07-27-2014, 10:09 PM
#16
Drifting
Thread Starter
I already have 3.33 gears in it (it's a 6-speed if that is relevant). Mileage is somewhat important to me.
With 3.33 already, would new rear end gears really be a big upgrade?
What affect would new gears have on effective power (pretty sure this isn't the right term), mileage, and driving experience (wouldn't a higher rear end gear ratio mean less time between shifts?)?
With 3.33 already, would new rear end gears really be a big upgrade?
What affect would new gears have on effective power (pretty sure this isn't the right term), mileage, and driving experience (wouldn't a higher rear end gear ratio mean less time between shifts?)?
07-27-2014, 11:02 PM
#17
Instructor
Long tube headers and a free flowing exhaust would boost output throughout the RPM range, including low end torque. In fact, long tube headers can have an effect on low-end torque similar to the long runners of the TPI intake.
Lots C4 owners would probably tell you that the best 'bang-for-buck' mod is gears. It will make your car feel like it has a lot more torque. However, the final ratio, transmission gears, converter stall speed, engine rev range, cam, head port size, intake runner length, and performance intentions should ideally be matched. Altering the final drive ratio changes one of those elements without touching the others.
Notice that the exhaust is absent from this list of interdependent parameters. A good set of long tube headers with minimal back pressure from the cats and mufflers is pretty close to a universal optimum for a SBC. Folks quibble over the best diameter of primaries for a given power level, and some engines in some operating ranges like shorter primaries (fairly rare), but that's about it. You'll have to check out smog stuff for exhaust changes in your area. It's not an issue where I'm from, so I can't tell you much about that.
My advice to you would be: squeeze miles out of your current motor while you sort out some of the other stuff (there's always other stuff) and save money. Read lots of books about building the SBC for power (Vizard's book is pretty good), and make a detailed plan. If you save up about $3000, do some strategic bargain hunting, and have a really good plan for your build, you'll be much more likely to build the engine you're looking for. You'll also learn a lot.
Lots C4 owners would probably tell you that the best 'bang-for-buck' mod is gears. It will make your car feel like it has a lot more torque. However, the final ratio, transmission gears, converter stall speed, engine rev range, cam, head port size, intake runner length, and performance intentions should ideally be matched. Altering the final drive ratio changes one of those elements without touching the others.
Notice that the exhaust is absent from this list of interdependent parameters. A good set of long tube headers with minimal back pressure from the cats and mufflers is pretty close to a universal optimum for a SBC. Folks quibble over the best diameter of primaries for a given power level, and some engines in some operating ranges like shorter primaries (fairly rare), but that's about it. You'll have to check out smog stuff for exhaust changes in your area. It's not an issue where I'm from, so I can't tell you much about that.
My advice to you would be: squeeze miles out of your current motor while you sort out some of the other stuff (there's always other stuff) and save money. Read lots of books about building the SBC for power (Vizard's book is pretty good), and make a detailed plan. If you save up about $3000, do some strategic bargain hunting, and have a really good plan for your build, you'll be much more likely to build the engine you're looking for. You'll also learn a lot.
07-28-2014, 12:00 AM
#18
Drifting
Thread Starter
Long tube headers and a free flowing exhaust would boost output throughout the RPM range, including low end torque. In fact, long tube headers can have an effect on low-end torque similar to the long runners of the TPI intake.
Lots C4 owners would probably tell you that the best 'bang-for-buck' mod is gears. It will make your car feel like it has a lot more torque. However, the final ratio, transmission gears, converter stall speed, engine rev range, cam, head port size, intake runner length, and performance intentions should ideally be matched. Altering the final drive ratio changes one of those elements without touching the others.
Notice that the exhaust is absent from this list of interdependent parameters. A good set of long tube headers with minimal back pressure from the cats and mufflers is pretty close to a universal optimum for a SBC. Folks quibble over the best diameter of primaries for a given power level, and some engines in some operating ranges like shorter primaries (fairly rare), but that's about it. You'll have to check out smog stuff for exhaust changes in your area. It's not an issue where I'm from, so I can't tell you much about that.
My advice to you would be: squeeze miles out of your current motor while you sort out some of the other stuff (there's always other stuff) and save money. Read lots of books about building the SBC for power (Vizard's book is pretty good), and make a detailed plan. If you save up about $3000, do some strategic bargain hunting, and have a really good plan for your build, you'll be much more likely to build the engine you're looking for. You'll also learn a lot.
Lots C4 owners would probably tell you that the best 'bang-for-buck' mod is gears. It will make your car feel like it has a lot more torque. However, the final ratio, transmission gears, converter stall speed, engine rev range, cam, head port size, intake runner length, and performance intentions should ideally be matched. Altering the final drive ratio changes one of those elements without touching the others.
Notice that the exhaust is absent from this list of interdependent parameters. A good set of long tube headers with minimal back pressure from the cats and mufflers is pretty close to a universal optimum for a SBC. Folks quibble over the best diameter of primaries for a given power level, and some engines in some operating ranges like shorter primaries (fairly rare), but that's about it. You'll have to check out smog stuff for exhaust changes in your area. It's not an issue where I'm from, so I can't tell you much about that.
My advice to you would be: squeeze miles out of your current motor while you sort out some of the other stuff (there's always other stuff) and save money. Read lots of books about building the SBC for power (Vizard's book is pretty good), and make a detailed plan. If you save up about $3000, do some strategic bargain hunting, and have a really good plan for your build, you'll be much more likely to build the engine you're looking for. You'll also learn a lot.
I've widely heard LT headers are great, but sadly I'm in Kalifornia so those are illegal since they move the precats back.
I've been reading lots of online articles, but no books so far. I'll check out the book by Vizard. "How to Build Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks on a Budget", right?
I've been researching this project for months, and I'd really like to stroke it. I'm not just looking for power, but for upgrades that will challenge my currently limited mechanical skills. Bolting on a new intake manifold doesn't fit the bill. However, I want to maximize my time and money by getting more than just experience out of the work. I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
Given that I'm hearing fairly uniformly that $1000 would be cutting corners, what would you say is the cheapest? I'd be interested in doing everything necessary. Does this list sound about right?
I have the specific part I would tentatively use in parentheses. I listed exhaust even though it's not really a part of stroking it, but I've been planning on doing that from the start.
Do I have anything listed that I wouldn't need to replace, or am I missing anything?
07-28-2014, 12:08 AM
#19
Team Owner
Pro Mechanic
I've done this back when I was tight on money; I slapped a junk yard SBC 400 (4.125" bore x 3.75" stroke) into a car with CFI -the MOST restrictive intake ever. Thing felt like a MONSTER compared to how it had felt w/a 350. If feel/fun in the low-mid is what you're looking for, and to me, "low-mid" means idle to 3500 RPM, then you really can't beat stroking unless you venture into $upercharging, or Nitrous.
The kit you provided a link for LOOKS o.k. to me, but one thing that I don't see is a Harmonic damper, so add some $$ for that. I'd rather buy from a reputable seller like Summit Racing though, but in either case, I'd also add in ARP fasteners for the stock connecting rods. That would make me feel "O.K." about the bottom end lasting for future upgrades upstairs.
07-28-2014, 12:14 AM
#20
Race Director
You're on a tight budget and willing to spend $1000 on a cat - back? Put that money in the engine, not a cat - back that will hardly make a difference in power.