Vansteel HD strap kit hits my haf shaft
07-23-2014, 08:52 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Vansteel HD strap kit hits my haf shaft
So I bought a vansteel HD strap kit this spring because I knew I needed to do the u-joints on the 89k car I bought last fall, just to have a fresh start and be safe. I drag race the car and figured why not upgrade the straps too. I just opened up the box last week and noticed they didn't come with directions, so I called for a torque spec and was told 35 ft-lb max. Went to install my HD strap kit last night and noticed 1st off the allen-head bolts are a pita. The tap they included may be the wrong size or maybe defective and just binded in the few I tried so I didn't bother with it becaue my holes were real clean being an Arizona car. I tried to use a 1/4" socket with the right allen size and stripped one of the bolt heads, because the socket wouldn't allow good depth(my bad, I was gonna pick up a new bolt at a huge bolt place that has like everything). So I took a break and thought about it and then took the L-shape 6mm allen they included and cut the short end off and put the long end in a 6mm socket, taped it and I was gtg. Torque my caps to 20 ft-lb(just felt safe because of the long alllen twisting) and I used a drop of blue Loctite(lube) so lower the 12.9 bolt torque value(was gonna do 23ft-lb). Slide out put it in neutral roll it over 180 and put it back in park. Crawl under and notice the caps are real close to the shaft, put it back in neutral and roll it over and see these marks.
Now I'm just pi$$ed and after dealing with parts problems each week for the past few months it seems and still waiting on two exchanges I don't even want to call them till I calm down tomorrow. So another weekend I won't have my car done maybe and more phone calls. I'll be nice as always, but the trend is no results unless I loose my temper. Just makes me sick thinking bout it. Maybe I'm over reacting, but with all my part issues of late I'm on a hair trigger.
FYI the joint is seated in the yoke and the strap is flush, shadow looks like a gap. Don't think the wheel side hits, but I haven't pulled it apart yet.
Now I'm just pi$$ed and after dealing with parts problems each week for the past few months it seems and still waiting on two exchanges I don't even want to call them till I calm down tomorrow. So another weekend I won't have my car done maybe and more phone calls. I'll be nice as always, but the trend is no results unless I loose my temper. Just makes me sick thinking bout it. Maybe I'm over reacting, but with all my part issues of late I'm on a hair trigger.
FYI the joint is seated in the yoke and the strap is flush, shadow looks like a gap. Don't think the wheel side hits, but I haven't pulled it apart yet.
Last edited by BOOT77; 07-23-2014 at 08:56 AM.
07-23-2014, 09:24 AM
#2
You certainly do seem to gather some unusual situations. I believe I mentioned "interference" way back when but that's irrelevant now.
How many locations actually have the "interference" problem? Your situation could improve or maybe actually get worse depending upon the power to the rear and the strength of the rear spring. The condition of the roadway could also effect your issue. There's maybe lots here to consider!
How many locations actually have the "interference" problem? Your situation could improve or maybe actually get worse depending upon the power to the rear and the strength of the rear spring. The condition of the roadway could also effect your issue. There's maybe lots here to consider!
07-23-2014, 09:32 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
the curse of the 'shrink wrapped' sportscar !
everything you change on these cars results in 2 problems
are those clamps steel ? if so you could probably just put more of a radius in them to clear ?
everything you change on these cars results in 2 problems
are those clamps steel ? if so you could probably just put more of a radius in them to clear ?
07-23-2014, 11:44 AM
#5
Race Director
I've never heard of a problem with stock straps. Sometimes, the u joint isn't seated completely in the yoke which results in failure. The strap just keeps the ujoint seated in the yoke. The yoke is what takes the brunt of the twisting force. 35 ft/lbs of torque for these bolts is crazy. They must have mistook your question for intake manifold bolts.
07-23-2014, 04:00 PM
#6
Safety Car
Are you checking the clearance with the car jacked up off the ground and the suspension hanging down?
A have a good buddy that installed these same caps a few weeks ago and his hit with the suspension hanging at full droop. They are indeed close but they don't make serious contact at ride height or thru the range normal suspension travel.
It's really not a big deal as you could grind a little clearance on the edge of the cap itself or on the inside end yolk of the half shaft. You could also just leave it alone.
Sometimes race car parts need a little bit of fitting. Not everything is a bolt on and forget it deal. Now they should probally send some disclaimer along with the caps about possible problems but in the grand scheme of things I have had to deal with seriously racing C4 Corvettes this is very minor issue IMO.
The real problem I see is those Brute Force U Joints you have installed....
If you drag race seriously at all you need the SPICER Cold Forged Joint and NOTHING else.... That is until CTM racing finally decides to release that 300M bodied, bushing capped U Joint they have been promising us forever.
If it's a 99% street driven car the MOOG Joint is a decent peice. But it's the only other U Joint I will consider and I have destroyed every U Joint availiable comming to this conculsion....
Not to toot my own horn because I don't brag about my car and until recently I had never posted a thing about it on here but I own and race the baddest stock suspension C4 Corvette that has probally ever been built. I don't know of anybody that (on the stock IRS) has been faster than 1.24 60ft and mid 5's in the 1/8th mile.....
Up until now I have always used the SPICER stock replacement straps. Last year I had some problems of knocking the little dents out of the straps and the U Joint cap getting loose in the stub shaft Yolks, then the needles getting busted in the cap and the U Joint failing shortly after.
I honestly liked what I saw in the VanSteel caps my buddy got and I am waiting on a set of those caps from VanSteel to install on my 84 right now.
Again not bragging about anything, I just want you to understand that when I say something my info or opinion comes from real experience of doing stuff with these cars that no one else has been able to do... or those that have or can are not willing to talk about.
Will
A have a good buddy that installed these same caps a few weeks ago and his hit with the suspension hanging at full droop. They are indeed close but they don't make serious contact at ride height or thru the range normal suspension travel.
It's really not a big deal as you could grind a little clearance on the edge of the cap itself or on the inside end yolk of the half shaft. You could also just leave it alone.
Sometimes race car parts need a little bit of fitting. Not everything is a bolt on and forget it deal. Now they should probally send some disclaimer along with the caps about possible problems but in the grand scheme of things I have had to deal with seriously racing C4 Corvettes this is very minor issue IMO.
The real problem I see is those Brute Force U Joints you have installed....
If you drag race seriously at all you need the SPICER Cold Forged Joint and NOTHING else.... That is until CTM racing finally decides to release that 300M bodied, bushing capped U Joint they have been promising us forever.
If it's a 99% street driven car the MOOG Joint is a decent peice. But it's the only other U Joint I will consider and I have destroyed every U Joint availiable comming to this conculsion....
Not to toot my own horn because I don't brag about my car and until recently I had never posted a thing about it on here but I own and race the baddest stock suspension C4 Corvette that has probally ever been built. I don't know of anybody that (on the stock IRS) has been faster than 1.24 60ft and mid 5's in the 1/8th mile.....
Up until now I have always used the SPICER stock replacement straps. Last year I had some problems of knocking the little dents out of the straps and the U Joint cap getting loose in the stub shaft Yolks, then the needles getting busted in the cap and the U Joint failing shortly after.
I honestly liked what I saw in the VanSteel caps my buddy got and I am waiting on a set of those caps from VanSteel to install on my 84 right now.
Again not bragging about anything, I just want you to understand that when I say something my info or opinion comes from real experience of doing stuff with these cars that no one else has been able to do... or those that have or can are not willing to talk about.
Will
Last edited by rklessdriver; 07-23-2014 at 04:08 PM.
07-23-2014, 04:11 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
You certainly do seem to gather some unusual situations. I believe I mentioned "interference" way back when but that's irrelevant now.
How many locations actually have the "interference" problem? Your situation could improve or maybe actually get worse depending upon the power to the rear and the strength of the rear spring. The condition of the roadway could also effect your issue. There's maybe lots here to consider!
How many locations actually have the "interference" problem? Your situation could improve or maybe actually get worse depending upon the power to the rear and the strength of the rear spring. The condition of the roadway could also effect your issue. There's maybe lots here to consider!
07-23-2014, 04:14 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I've never heard of a problem with stock straps. Sometimes, the u joint isn't seated completely in the yoke which results in failure. The strap just keeps the ujoint seated in the yoke. The yoke is what takes the brunt of the twisting force. 35 ft/lbs of torque for these bolts is crazy. They must have mistook your question for intake manifold bolts.
I'm a sucker for upgrades. The 35ft-lb did seem high to me and I checked, an 8mm 12.9 bolt is good for 29-33 dry depending what chart you check. Drop that down by %25 with Loctite and it's 20-23.
07-23-2014, 04:43 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Are you checking the clearance with the car jacked up off the ground and the suspension hanging down?
A have a good buddy that installed these same caps a few weeks ago and his hit with the suspension hanging at full droop. They are indeed close but they don't make serious contact at ride height or thru the range normal suspension travel.
It's really not a big deal as you could grind a little clearance on the edge of the cap itself or on the inside end yolk of the half shaft. You could also just leave it alone.
Sometimes race car parts need a little bit of fitting. Not everything is a bolt on and forget it deal. Now they should probally send some disclaimer along with the caps about possible problems but in the grand scheme of things I have had to deal with seriously racing C4 Corvettes this is very minor issue IMO.
The real problem I see is those Brute Force U Joints you have installed....
If you drag race seriously at all you need the SPICER Cold Forged Joint and NOTHING else.... That is until CTM racing finally decides to release that 300M bodied, bushing capped U Joint they have been promising us forever.
If it's a 99% street driven car the MOOG Joint is a decent peice. But it's the only other U Joint I will consider and I have destroyed every U Joint availiable comming to this conculsion....
Not to toot my own horn because I don't brag about my car and until recently I had never posted a thing about it on here but I own and race the baddest stock suspension C4 Corvette that has probally ever been built. I don't know of anybody that (on the stock IRS) has been faster than 1.24 60ft and mid 5's in the 1/8th mile.....
Up until now I have always used the SPICER stock replacement straps. Last year I had some problems of knocking the little dents out of the straps and the U Joint cap getting loose in the stub shaft Yolks, then the needles getting busted in the cap and the U Joint failing shortly after.
I honestly liked what I saw in the VanSteel caps my buddy got and I am waiting on a set of those caps from VanSteel to install on my 84 right now.
Again not bragging about anything, I just want you to understand that when I say something my info or opinion comes from real experience of doing stuff with these cars that no one else has been able to do... or those that have or can are not willing to talk about.
Will
A have a good buddy that installed these same caps a few weeks ago and his hit with the suspension hanging at full droop. They are indeed close but they don't make serious contact at ride height or thru the range normal suspension travel.
It's really not a big deal as you could grind a little clearance on the edge of the cap itself or on the inside end yolk of the half shaft. You could also just leave it alone.
Sometimes race car parts need a little bit of fitting. Not everything is a bolt on and forget it deal. Now they should probally send some disclaimer along with the caps about possible problems but in the grand scheme of things I have had to deal with seriously racing C4 Corvettes this is very minor issue IMO.
The real problem I see is those Brute Force U Joints you have installed....
If you drag race seriously at all you need the SPICER Cold Forged Joint and NOTHING else.... That is until CTM racing finally decides to release that 300M bodied, bushing capped U Joint they have been promising us forever.
If it's a 99% street driven car the MOOG Joint is a decent peice. But it's the only other U Joint I will consider and I have destroyed every U Joint availiable comming to this conculsion....
Not to toot my own horn because I don't brag about my car and until recently I had never posted a thing about it on here but I own and race the baddest stock suspension C4 Corvette that has probally ever been built. I don't know of anybody that (on the stock IRS) has been faster than 1.24 60ft and mid 5's in the 1/8th mile.....
Up until now I have always used the SPICER stock replacement straps. Last year I had some problems of knocking the little dents out of the straps and the U Joint cap getting loose in the stub shaft Yolks, then the needles getting busted in the cap and the U Joint failing shortly after.
I honestly liked what I saw in the VanSteel caps my buddy got and I am waiting on a set of those caps from VanSteel to install on my 84 right now.
Again not bragging about anything, I just want you to understand that when I say something my info or opinion comes from real experience of doing stuff with these cars that no one else has been able to do... or those that have or can are not willing to talk about.
Will
Always gotta be someone who goes off track. Not looking to turn this into a u-joint debate. I did my homework and brute's are fine for the times I'll be running for now. I bought them because they had the coating some rave about and only got two because of an error and couldn't get two more so the drivers side has uncoated spicers(whoever wants to rant about that gtfo). Moog are overpriced rebox and it's a gamble whoever you really get, because some have gotten two and had two diff looking u-joints.
I'm no stranger to final fitting parts as this is not my 1st race car, but most let you know somehow. If the caps need clearancing then they should redesign the part! If you have to keep the suspension at a certain angle for them to not hit on install it should be in the description or directions if they had any. I'm sure the damage is fine for a DD and even with the car being slow as it is right now, I don't plan on it staying that way forever. Far as I see it it's a new weak spot for possible failure.
I'll call vansteel tomorrow, for now they are coming off tonight and I'll clean up the orig straps and bolts. Then stop by my friends and have him tig the divots back so I can get this car done for the weekend maybe. I still have to work on other stuff that I now have less time for.
On another note if your running steel shafts you may not have a problem with the caps. My style of racing isn't the same as yours really and I prob don't really need the caps, but like I told 383vette I'm a sucker for upgrades sometimes. Still I don't like the idea of $120 in parts sitting in a box either! Hopefully my call will deal with that.
07-23-2014, 04:51 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Yes steel and shouldn't have to clearance a part designed for only one car!
07-23-2014, 07:10 PM
#11
Race Director
07-23-2014, 07:15 PM
#12
The bolts on the half-shaft straps are M8 x 1.0 and Dana mentions 13 - 18 lb ft for torque. That is of course when using the straps.
The drive-shaft straps are held with 1/4-28 hardware and that doesn't ever seem to be an issue for someone to accept
The drive-shaft straps are held with 1/4-28 hardware and that doesn't ever seem to be an issue for someone to accept
07-24-2014, 01:52 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
edit: 18 is prob max dry and 13 would be 75% so lube/Loctite/ant seize
Last edited by BOOT77; 07-24-2014 at 02:10 AM. Reason: dirrrrr
07-24-2014, 08:00 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Friend of mine IRL made another good point. Even if I took care to install with w/o hitting, all it takes is one high speed pass down the wrong Michigan road and it'll clearance itself or worse at high speed. Same friend helped me wrap my headers long ago on my 68 Camaro and that same night the road unwrapped one of them partially.
07-24-2014, 08:54 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
Yep those Van steel h/d straps look way to bulky 
Keep the standard ones they may look small with tiny bolts holding them but i have twisted and snapped the standard aluminum half shafts, the straps got reused with the "steel" half shafts i got made after a second aluminum half shaft twisted and snapped.
As the old saying goes, if it ain't broken don't fix it.
Keep the standard ones they may look small with tiny bolts holding them but i have twisted and snapped the standard aluminum half shafts, the straps got reused with the "steel" half shafts i got made after a second aluminum half shaft twisted and snapped.
As the old saying goes, if it ain't broken don't fix it.
07-24-2014, 01:35 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Well I screwed for this weekend deff now. Tried my best but popped a cap off each end while trying to remove the shaft and I'm far too **** about dirt on the uncapped ends so two new u-joints.
edit: Think I'll wait till tomorrow for that call
edit: Think I'll wait till tomorrow for that call
Last edited by BOOT77; 07-24-2014 at 01:40 PM. Reason: dirrrrrrrr
07-26-2014, 05:23 PM
#17
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...psca1ec2e0.jpg
Last edited by Jagdpanzer; 07-26-2014 at 05:34 PM.
07-28-2014, 04:57 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Update: Called Vansteel and gonna return them, I'll just loose shipping both ways, two u-joints, $ for welding and my time. After talking to them the strap kit was suppose to come with directions and is a better fit for the steel shafts. I guess the directions would have told me to jack the spindle up before turning the shafts. Still I don't feel like making sure my half-shafts are in the correct position every time I jack the rear of my car or putting stands under the spindles every time I need to turn the wheels while jacked up. Plus there is still the chance the suspension goes full unload while at speed and I know roads that could happen and have been surprised a few times due to constantly changing Michigan road conditions.
All that being said I'm glad this experience is not a total loss and I hope my info helps someone. If you got steel shafts or alum on a track car and make sure to have the shafts in the correct position and not turn them unloaded, then maybe the strap kit is for you. I would like to have seen the product work for me and since I have some Vansteel parts for my C3 that'll be installed sooner or later I'll have to wait and see if I consider using their parts again.
All that being said I'm glad this experience is not a total loss and I hope my info helps someone. If you got steel shafts or alum on a track car and make sure to have the shafts in the correct position and not turn them unloaded, then maybe the strap kit is for you. I would like to have seen the product work for me and since I have some Vansteel parts for my C3 that'll be installed sooner or later I'll have to wait and see if I consider using their parts again.
