RED UFO

I tested my fuel pressure today.

When I first turn on the key the PSI goes to 47 then within 10 seconds it drops to about 40 and holds. When I start it at idle, it drops to about 38. When I rev it up the fuel pressure rises to about 43 then goes back to 38 at idle. It is my understanding that these readings are normal and acceptible.

I installed new 22# Delphi injectors. Now I can bearly start the car cold but when it hits about 140-150 degrees it smooths out a little. When I drive it I have a bad stumble unless I am driving in the rain.

I replaced my Ford/Bocsh Pink Top 22# injectors because they were loud. The car did run pretty good on them. I had the car analyzed and the tech said the engine is running very very lean. He did a Block Learn Intragator test and the reading was 160-180 indicating a very lean condition. He said that is the highest numbers he had ever seen and he feels I am having a fuel restrictionproblem with my new injectors. When I pulled my O2 sensor it was white. (BTW) the computer has a Delco Chip in it.

Is there a difference in the flow of my Pink Tops and these new Delphi's?

I am considering pulling my new injectors tomorrow and putting in my old pink tops to see if this solves my problem.

Please let me know if I am missing anything before I go through the work of swapping my injectors.


Update May 23, 2011

I decided to switch back to my original Pink Top injectors to be sure the new injectors were causing my lean problem. The answer is yes, the new injectors were causing all my problems. I will talk to Jon tomorrow to discuss why these injectors didnt work in my car. See the pictures below.

My car is back to sounding like I am making Popcorn under my hood but the car starts and runs great.




Thank You in advance.

dwilliamson1

Red,
I'm not sure I have the story straight. Was all the tests run on the new #22s or was some of it on the old ones? I think I understand that it ran good prior to the change, is that correct? I've not used Delphis so I can't speak directly about them, but I put a flow matched set of 22# Bosch 3s in mine last year and it was the best thing I ever did to it.

If everything was good before the change out and that was the only work done; then you pretty much need to focus on the new injectors or an installation error.

Do you have the Bosch and Delphi part #s so we can look it up and be sure what you actually have and if they should be a good match?

You say yours are new. New to you or actually brand new injectors? It wouldn't be the first time some parts counter guy sold a monkey and called it an ape.
Dave

cumbercr

I would look for a vacuum leak. I find it hard to believe that injectors of the same size but different brand would make that much difference. Your fuel pressure readings look pretty normal.

93VettePilot

Put a screwdriver on each injector while its running and listen to each injector to make sure they are all working. A dead cylinder will cause BLM's like you have. Are you sure you have the right injector's?

RED UFO

The tests were done after the injector upgrade/change. The car ran fine before the change. It had some minor issues but not a cold start problem and did not stumble and miss when I accelerated. They are brand new injectors. When I called to order them I wanted Bosch 3's based on what other forum members said about them but the sales person I talked to talked me into Delphi's because I was looking for quiet. He said Delphis were better than Bocsh 3s. With the reputation the company has on the forum I went with his recommendation.

I did do other work on the car but the GM specialist I took it to ruled out other things that I thought may be causing this problem.

I installed a powder coated intake and polished runners with plenum. I also removed the air pump and installed a idler pulley. The tech said he found no leaks with my manifold gasket and all sensors are giving good readings. He said he is 98% sure the injectors are not putting out enough fuel so the computer is trying to compensate so that is why the car doesnt want to stay running when cold and stumbles when I drive it once it is warm. I have 16 inches of vacuum and it holds there. If I pull a vacuum line anywhere the engine speeds up. I have shot ether starting fluid everywhere with no change in idle speed.

Regarding my injectors, all my invoice says it " New Delphi 22 90 TPI. The are in the car so I can't see the part number on the new injectors. The Ford/Bocsh are (Ford number) FOTE-9F593-D9B and the (Bocsh number) 280-150-561. When I looked them up on the internet a charts said they are also 22#.

The last thing I am going to do is push the new injector all the way down into the manifold. As it is now I have some play beween my fuel rail and the manifold. I can move them up and down. So I am going to seat them all the way down into the manifold. I do not have the retaining clips because they were not there on the old injectors.

I hope this makes my post clearer. Thank you for responding.

By the way, I have been talking to the company on the furum that I bought them from and they are trying to helping me figure this out. One thing that they mentioned was that the pink tops have a larger nozzle than the Delphi's but I am not sure if that could be a problem when both injectors are rated at 22#.

This whole ordeal has me wore out and my wallet much lighter. I just want my car running the way it used to.

RED UFO

I have looked for a vacuum leak. I have 16 inches of vacuum and it holds steady. If I pull a vacuum line the engine speeds up. I have shot ether starting fluid on everything and the idle never changes.

RED UFO

I have the injectors the company recommended to me.

I will listen to each injector but I beleive the are all working. If one or two injectors are not squirting wouldnt my idle be bad. The car idles fine one it warms up.

93VettePilot

The car will idle just fine with a dead cylinder. The IAC (idle air control) will just open up a bit more to correct for the loss in power at idle. With parts you never know what your gonna get. Its worth looking at the part numbers on the injectors and making sure they gave you the right thing.

Another thing, is that you should reset the computer so it will relearn the new blm's. On my car its just a matter of unhooking the battery cable for 5 minutes and turning on the lights to get rid of any residual voltage.

Most of the time injectors do not fail. However the terminals can get corroded and not make a good connection.

RED UFO

Here are my new injectors. Are they far enough into the manifold?

samsonb

My O2 sensor and spark plugs were white too when I was running lean.

solaris_vii

i dont know if this is helpful, but as far as i knew there were only 24# and 30# ford/bosch injectors, the blue was 24 and the red/pink were 30. that being said, if you had the 30# and it was tuned to that and replaced with 22# injectors then that would cause you to run lean. something to check out i guess.

RED UFO

My part number on the web list at 22# pink tops.

JustCruzin

It was a good salesman to talk you out of Bosch injectors and into Delphi, IMO. The Bosch d3 are 19lb injectors but at our psi of 43.5 they run 22lb. I would have left the pink tops in as you say the car was running nice with them. What made you change them.

RED UFO

The pink tops are noisy as hell. I was powder coating and polishing the TPI so I decided to upgrade the injectors while it was apart.

I just talked to Jon at FIC. He wants me to send my new injectors back for testing before I try reinstalling my old injectors.

RED UFO

I decided to switch back to my original Pink Top injectors to be sure the new injectors were causing my problem. The answer is yes, the new injectors were causing all my problems. I will talk to Jon tomorrow to discuss why these injectors didnt work in my car. See the pictures below.

Road Agent

Really?

Kool88vette

I think you need a new tune.

RED UFO

The Pink TOPS Bosch/Ford 22# are different than the Pinkish/Red 30# injectors. I looked up the part number for the injectors that I have and they are listed at 22#.

The only reason I was changing them is that they are noisy as hell. I paid $300.00 for the delphi's but I am not paying $500-$600 for a Dyna tune so I have quiet injectors.

I just sent my Delphi's back to FIC so they can determine why they didnt work in my car. Hopfully they come up with something.

93VettePilot

Yes, does this sound unusual to you? It'll tell you if you have bad wiring or connector. I guess if you have big enough ears you could put your ears on the injectors. LOL

GREGGPENN

Some injectors (like my 24lb SVOs) are shorter than others. (Some are longer too.) When using the shorter injectors, the clips must be used to avoid issues. I raised this issue when installing mine.

Jon assurred me they would work IF I used the clips. And, they do. Without them, I have to wonder if you were sucking air around any/all of the injectors. I don't see how you could have avoided an issue w/o the clips.

At least, that's what seems probable to me -- assuming the injector body of the problem injectors are shorter than the OEM Multecs.


Note: With shorter injectors, the clip holds the injector at a stationary depth in the rail. That, in turn, controls the depth of penetration into the manifold. As long as the injector goes into the manifold far enough to create a seal around the O-ring, you should be fine. Mine only penetrate about the thickness of the O-ring. They look like the pick of yours. And, as mentioned work fine. Jon mentioned (to me on the phone) that many cars/injectors have this configuration "issue".