FIRST intake for LT1s!
03-29-2011, 06:08 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
FIRST intake for LT1s!
Seems like I remember reading they were in the process of developing the LT option. But today, when I looked at their website, it's listed as available.
Kinda surprised I haven't seen a thread on this. OTOH, you don't see many FIRST threads for the L98 option either.
Kinda surprised I haven't seen a thread on this. OTOH, you don't see many FIRST threads for the L98 option either.
03-29-2011, 08:28 PM
#4
I would be shocked if they made the FIRST for the LTx. The LTx style intake imo is years ahead of the TPI intake therefore I am not sure why an LTx owner would want to add length to there runners.
Isnt the BBK intake available as well? C4 stuff is a thing of the past.
Isnt the BBK intake available as well? C4 stuff is a thing of the past.
03-29-2011, 09:21 PM
#5
"C4 stuff is a thing of the past"
Not necessarily. The First system can be opened up to flow some serious air. Plus the runners are long enough to take advantage of "wave" tuning. In fact you can take advantage of the 4th, 3rd and 2nd harmonic waves.
Not necessarily. The First system can be opened up to flow some serious air. Plus the runners are long enough to take advantage of "wave" tuning. In fact you can take advantage of the 4th, 3rd and 2nd harmonic waves.
03-29-2011, 09:29 PM
#6
Race Director
Lack of an intake is one of the primary reasons we cant run lsx heads.
Of course, youd prob need a high rise hood also - since lsx heads are taller than SBC/ltx heads.
I went to their website and it didnt even have a picture...
Of course, youd prob need a high rise hood also - since lsx heads are taller than SBC/ltx heads.
I went to their website and it didnt even have a picture...
03-29-2011, 10:16 PM
#7
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03-29-2011, 10:18 PM
#8
Besides exhaust, and cylinder heads there really isnt much new performance parts to hit the C4 scene. If you purchase a C5, or C6 there are tons of bolt on turbo's and superchargers for those generations. You cannot say the same things about the C4 generation.
The reason I kept my car was because I have always wanted a 500 hp plus motor under the hood. The C4 is not totally a thing of the past, but its certainly is getting there in relation to performance parts for the SBC1.
And who wants to try to make power with a long runner intake like the FIRST. I certainly had no intentions of slapping on that intake, but thats what makes the world go round, and round! Opinions are like ***holes. Everyone has one, and the above is mine!
Have a good night.
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 03-29-2011 at 10:21 PM.
03-29-2011, 11:16 PM
#9
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St. Jude Donor '05
I would be shocked if they made the FIRST for the LTx. The LTx style intake imo is years ahead of the TPI intake therefore I am not sure why an LTx owner would want to add length to there runners.
Isnt the BBK intake available as well? C4 stuff is a thing of the past.
Isnt the BBK intake available as well? C4 stuff is a thing of the past.
No superram available for those anymore really.
Would make a real fun stroker on the street.
03-29-2011, 11:18 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Yeah, I don't really get this direction for the Gen II. I would really rather see a composite LSx style manifold retro-fitted for the LTx. Especially if would allow use of the LSx throttle bodies. I would think something like this would be more attractive to those wanting to build an LTx C4 motor.
03-29-2011, 11:54 PM
#11
Race Director
Thread Starter
I can't even harness the torque I have now, why would I want even more of it? 
Of coarse, this is all speculation by me. I'd love to be proved wrong and I anxiously await dyno results from FIRST, comparing the two intakes. Not just stock for stock, but more importantly, how the FIRST intake performs on a "built" LT1.
Of coarse, this is all speculation by me. I'd love to be proved wrong and I anxiously await dyno results from FIRST, comparing the two intakes. Not just stock for stock, but more importantly, how the FIRST intake performs on a "built" LT1.
Go lookup the FIRST thread started by Cuisinartvette around 2007. You'll see a comparison of built MR vs FIRST setups.
I admit though....Guys that wanna make power with more and more revs should look elsewhere.
This would be very similar to a superram with a bit more midrange. About the same topend (unmodified). Can go higher though.
03-29-2011, 11:57 PM
#12
Race Director
Thread Starter
Yeah, I don't really get this direction for the Gen II. I would really rather see a composite LSx style manifold retro-fitted for the LTx. Especially if would allow use of the LSx throttle bodies. I would think something like this would be more attractive to those wanting to build an LTx C4 motor.
The FIRST would have equal torque and out-HP what I built. Probably gain 30HP.
03-30-2011, 12:41 AM
#13
Race Director
Thread Starter
Too late.
Forged, solid roller 396 already in the works.
I still stand behind my original comments. LT1 owners are not looking for an intake that limits their top-end's breathing potential. They want something that improves it.
I'm not trying to knock TPI or anything. It's a great intake and does a very good job at what it was intended to do, which is make low-end torque. But that's basically all it does. One of my previous vehicles was an '88 Iroc-Z. It had the L98 in it and I ran AS&M runners, a heavily ported Accel base, ported plenum etc. etc. etc.
It had torque to spare. It pulled like a raped ape from a dead stop. The trouble was, once it hit 5000, that's when the fat lady started singing and the show was all over. It felt like I just slammed into an invisible wall and the car just fell flat on its face. 
TPI's are great for low-speed bursts in 1st and 2nd gear around town or maybe powering a big pickup or a jeep, but it's not exactly the intake people go for when they're building a motor with a "wide" power band. Not that a stock LT1 intake is the best choice either mind you, but the design is certainly a lot better than TPI when it comes to flowing air above and beyond 5000rpm...
Forged, solid roller 396 already in the works.
I still stand behind my original comments. LT1 owners are not looking for an intake that limits their top-end's breathing potential. They want something that improves it.
I'm not trying to knock TPI or anything. It's a great intake and does a very good job at what it was intended to do, which is make low-end torque. But that's basically all it does. One of my previous vehicles was an '88 Iroc-Z. It had the L98 in it and I ran AS&M runners, a heavily ported Accel base, ported plenum etc. etc. etc.
It had torque to spare. It pulled like a raped ape from a dead stop. The trouble was, once it hit 5000, that's when the fat lady started singing and the show was all over.
It felt like I just slammed into an invisible wall and the car just fell flat on its face. TPI's are great for low-speed bursts in 1st and 2nd gear around town or maybe powering a big pickup or a jeep, but it's not exactly the intake people go for when they're building a motor with a "wide" power band. Not that a stock LT1 intake is the best choice either mind you, but the design is certainly a lot better than TPI when it comes to flowing air above and beyond 5000rpm...
You don't even know the potential effect of the FIRST in comparison to your modified TPI setup. You also don't know what every other LTx owner wants/needs. But you throw a pretty good sales pitch on what YOU think they need!
BTW...Nice looking setup.
03-30-2011, 01:11 AM
#14
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03-30-2011, 01:22 AM
#15
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For years it was the TPI owners lookig for more RPMs. Superam, siamese runners, miniram, converted LT1 intakes etc etc. I had a 90 vette, a 6 speed to boot. It was slightly modded: headers, very mild head work, air pump delete, free mods, superam base, siamese runers, ported plenum etc etc. It ran a best of 13.31 at 106mph at Beech Bend when stock LT4 cars were running 106-107mph. It died above 5k rpm. My current car with stock intake traps 115-116mph at the same track. I'm glad that FAST did something new but unless I pull my current motor out and put it in a truck I wont be needing that intake.
I'd be willing to put a well built 396LTX up against a 396L98 with a tpi intake on it any day. Plenty of people have built 383L98s and watched as the engine ran out of breath at 4500rpm instead of 5000 when they were done. There have been endless debates about this and unless the laws of physics has changed in the last 20 minutes the TPI style is still more restrictive.
I'd be willing to put a well built 396LTX up against a 396L98 with a tpi intake on it any day. Plenty of people have built 383L98s and watched as the engine ran out of breath at 4500rpm instead of 5000 when they were done. There have been endless debates about this and unless the laws of physics has changed in the last 20 minutes the TPI style is still more restrictive.
03-30-2011, 08:14 AM
#16
Safety Car
If you want low to mid range power (less then 5000 RPM) the First seems like a good intake. If you are looking for power above 5000 RPM the First would not be the intake of choice. The person building the engine needs to determine what their goals are and then choose a intake that helps them acheive the goal.
My opinion is most people with LT1 intakes would not want to give up the top end power potential that intake has for the low and mid range power of the First intake. That being said, to each his own.
My opinion is most people with LT1 intakes would not want to give up the top end power potential that intake has for the low and mid range power of the First intake. That being said, to each his own.
03-30-2011, 10:55 AM
#17
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IMO, There is another advantage to running the first manifold. The intake runners are 1.75" and are much larger than a stock TPI. I don't think with runners that big that you would run into rpm issues until well above 6500. For 95% of people this is a high enough shift point.
In Lingenfelters book he states this about the LT1 manifold:
"In my tests, the shorter runner length exhibits poor fuel distribution during low engine speeds with high manifold vacuum when combined with high overlap camshafts. This is evident at low rpm, part throttle where the engine will surge lightly as intake pulsing affects cylinder filling of adjacent cylinders. The addition of the Lingenfelter superram improves this problem."
He also talks about making 550 hp on a small block with the superram.
I don't think anybody should be so quick to dismiss TPI style intakes.
In Lingenfelters book he states this about the LT1 manifold:
"In my tests, the shorter runner length exhibits poor fuel distribution during low engine speeds with high manifold vacuum when combined with high overlap camshafts. This is evident at low rpm, part throttle where the engine will surge lightly as intake pulsing affects cylinder filling of adjacent cylinders. The addition of the Lingenfelter superram improves this problem."
He also talks about making 550 hp on a small block with the superram.
I don't think anybody should be so quick to dismiss TPI style intakes.
03-30-2011, 12:16 PM
#18
Race Director
Thread Starter
IMO, There is another advantage to running the first manifold. The intake runners are 1.75" and are much larger than a stock TPI. I don't think with runners that big that you would run into rpm issues until well above 6500. For 95% of people this is a high enough shift point.
In Lingenfelters book he states this about the LT1 manifold:
"In my tests, the shorter runner length exhibits poor fuel distribution during low engine speeds with high manifold vacuum when combined with high overlap camshafts. This is evident at low rpm, part throttle where the engine will surge lightly as intake pulsing affects cylinder filling of adjacent cylinders. The addition of the Lingenfelter superram improves this problem."
He also talks about making 550 hp on a small block with the superram.
I don't think anybody should be so quick to dismiss TPI style intakes.
In Lingenfelters book he states this about the LT1 manifold:
"In my tests, the shorter runner length exhibits poor fuel distribution during low engine speeds with high manifold vacuum when combined with high overlap camshafts. This is evident at low rpm, part throttle where the engine will surge lightly as intake pulsing affects cylinder filling of adjacent cylinders. The addition of the Lingenfelter superram improves this problem."
He also talks about making 550 hp on a small block with the superram.
I don't think anybody should be so quick to dismiss TPI style intakes.
For people wanting at least 30ft/lbs of torque, this would do it. It would pull like a 383 w/o building the whole motor. And it would peak at SR levels.
03-30-2011, 12:22 PM
#19
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St. Jude Donor '05
id bet money take a stock or small cammed LT1 with a stock LT1 intake and an out of the box FIRST, run them down the track and the FIRST would be the winner.
Not everyone that mods is in search of high rpm.
The superram effect would be a good thing to have for the LTx street cars, at least someone is doing something aftermarket for these, how many threads do we see where people whine that noone makes anything for them? Its just a 350 it will take to mods just like anything else.
Not everyone that mods is in search of high rpm.
The superram effect would be a good thing to have for the LTx street cars, at least someone is doing something aftermarket for these, how many threads do we see where people whine that noone makes anything for them? Its just a 350 it will take to mods just like anything else.
03-30-2011, 12:42 PM
#20
Le Mans Master