Strange Malfunction after new tune and Supercharger work
02-20-2011, 09:06 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Strange Malfunction after new tune and Supercharger work
Hi Folks,
Ok, this is a strange one. Background is I had a Procharger 600b installed on my 90 L98 for many years. I recently ripped out the dual intercoolers and installed a Methanol Injection System. I drove it a bunch after that mod, longest about an hour trip and it ran fine. I then later installed a new BIN file in my Motes Ostrich. Again, ran it on an hour trip and it seemed fine.
So this weekend I take it for a long ride - 2 hours. It is quite a bit warmer than it has been. The first half of the trip was fine, no problems whatsoever. But the return trip the air temp as in the low 80's and I noticed the temperature gauge creeping up. As long as I kept moving it went down. I figured that the BIN file I used was not turning on the fans soon enough, and comparing the bin files, that was indeed the case. The old bin file had the fans turn on at a much lower temperature. So I changed the new BIN file settings to turn the fans on sooner.
Well things went really down hill when I hit some traffic on the interstate and turned into stop and go. The engine temp creeped up past 240 (never seen it that high). Then when traffic stopped on the interstate the car stalled! I smelled a really bad burning odor the type of which I had never smelled before. It did not smell electrical, or like fuel. I really cannot describe it. I managed to pull it over to the break down lane. and let it sit for a minute. Tried to start it and the starter acted made a weird noise like it was under high strain. Let it sit a few minutes more and then it started right up.
For the rest of the trip it seemed to run ok except that if I stop at a light it wants to stall and the burning smell comes back. Putting it in neutral keeps it running. No codes were sent during any of these events.
I opened it up this morning and I have not spotted what was burning yet. But I have not been able to get under the car. I have not taken it out again to see if the stall problem still exists. I changed the new BIN file and have the fans come on sooner (lower temp).
My first inclination was to put back the old (original) BIN file, but the new BIN file seems to make it run with more power.
I was trying to figure out what were the exact differences between the BIN files so I could post them here but I have not figured out a way to save them yet.
I am hoping the high temps did not blow a head gasket or do some internal damage. I don't think so as it ran ok afterwards at speed.
I'll post more findings after I see if it still has the stall problem and I look underneath and see what might be burning. I'll also check to see if I sucked up a plastic bag or some debris.
Ok, this is a strange one. Background is I had a Procharger 600b installed on my 90 L98 for many years. I recently ripped out the dual intercoolers and installed a Methanol Injection System. I drove it a bunch after that mod, longest about an hour trip and it ran fine. I then later installed a new BIN file in my Motes Ostrich. Again, ran it on an hour trip and it seemed fine.
So this weekend I take it for a long ride - 2 hours. It is quite a bit warmer than it has been. The first half of the trip was fine, no problems whatsoever. But the return trip the air temp as in the low 80's and I noticed the temperature gauge creeping up. As long as I kept moving it went down. I figured that the BIN file I used was not turning on the fans soon enough, and comparing the bin files, that was indeed the case. The old bin file had the fans turn on at a much lower temperature. So I changed the new BIN file settings to turn the fans on sooner.
Well things went really down hill when I hit some traffic on the interstate and turned into stop and go. The engine temp creeped up past 240 (never seen it that high). Then when traffic stopped on the interstate the car stalled! I smelled a really bad burning odor the type of which I had never smelled before. It did not smell electrical, or like fuel. I really cannot describe it. I managed to pull it over to the break down lane. and let it sit for a minute. Tried to start it and the starter acted made a weird noise like it was under high strain. Let it sit a few minutes more and then it started right up.
For the rest of the trip it seemed to run ok except that if I stop at a light it wants to stall and the burning smell comes back. Putting it in neutral keeps it running. No codes were sent during any of these events.
I opened it up this morning and I have not spotted what was burning yet. But I have not been able to get under the car. I have not taken it out again to see if the stall problem still exists. I changed the new BIN file and have the fans come on sooner (lower temp).
My first inclination was to put back the old (original) BIN file, but the new BIN file seems to make it run with more power.
I was trying to figure out what were the exact differences between the BIN files so I could post them here but I have not figured out a way to save them yet.
I am hoping the high temps did not blow a head gasket or do some internal damage. I don't think so as it ran ok afterwards at speed.
I'll post more findings after I see if it still has the stall problem and I look underneath and see what might be burning. I'll also check to see if I sucked up a plastic bag or some debris.
Last edited by Flame Red; 02-20-2011 at 09:10 AM.
02-20-2011, 09:12 AM
#2
After you made your basic checks again,
Check for a leaking or blown headgasket.
Dont want to ruin your day,
But blown, Turbo, and Nitrous equipped engines can and are typically hard on headgaskets.
Best to suspect a bad headgasket now rather spend hours or days looking elsewhere for a problem. By then you will be real frusterated.
Napa sells a combustion leak detecror kit, along with autozone and others.
Not that expensive to buy. And the check- results are 100% accurate- blown headgasket or not.
Hopefully not.
Buy it and make the check yourself.
You know your own car best, not me or others, unless you have a close friend that is very good mechanic too.
BR
Check for a leaking or blown headgasket.
Dont want to ruin your day,
But blown, Turbo, and Nitrous equipped engines can and are typically hard on headgaskets.
Best to suspect a bad headgasket now rather spend hours or days looking elsewhere for a problem. By then you will be real frusterated.
Napa sells a combustion leak detecror kit, along with autozone and others.
Not that expensive to buy. And the check- results are 100% accurate- blown headgasket or not.
Hopefully not.
Buy it and make the check yourself.
You know your own car best, not me or others, unless you have a close friend that is very good mechanic too.
BR
02-20-2011, 11:14 AM
#3
The burning smell.........
Check the entire length of the fiberglass floor or your Vette.
On high powered C4's without the factory or added heat shields intact,
the floors can cook or even catch on fire/ burn a hole through.
Very Lean or super rich air to fuel ratios for whatever the reason may be..... even on astock Corvette can cause such problems too,
Along with very late- retarded Ignition timing.
Check the entire length of the fiberglass floor or your Vette.
On high powered C4's without the factory or added heat shields intact,
the floors can cook or even catch on fire/ burn a hole through.
Very Lean or super rich air to fuel ratios for whatever the reason may be..... even on astock Corvette can cause such problems too,
Along with very late- retarded Ignition timing.
02-20-2011, 12:32 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Update. I verified that no debris were sucked in front the radiator. I starter her up and took here for a short 30 minute ride. Seemed to run perfectly. No burning smell, idled perfectly. Now it was not as hot today as when this occurred before, so there still may be an issue. I verified both fans will run. I lowered the fan turn on/off temps per the old BIN files.
I am kind of thinking that perhaps the fans not turning on caused the engine to heat up abnormally and interfered with the Moates Ostrich mounted in the engine compartment and caused it to go crazy and maybe run lean and stall.
Looks like I'll have to wait for a warmer day and a longer ride to be sure.
I am kind of thinking that perhaps the fans not turning on caused the engine to heat up abnormally and interfered with the Moates Ostrich mounted in the engine compartment and caused it to go crazy and maybe run lean and stall.
Looks like I'll have to wait for a warmer day and a longer ride to be sure.
02-20-2011, 12:42 PM
#6
Race Director
sorry to hear about this...
do you have the electric water pump or stock OEM mechanical? if its mechanical are your drive belts driving it? (i dont know how its driven on the l98, lt1 its gear driven).
im sure you checked this already, but whats the coolant fluid level?
Id start by bleeding the coolant system. bleed your hoses, 'burp' the system (ie. on cold start: let it run with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens). Actually im not sure of the proper bleed procedure on the l98 cars.
Finally, are there any issue with the tune or O2 sensors (ie. things that could cause it to run lean and generate excessive heat?).
do you have the electric water pump or stock OEM mechanical? if its mechanical are your drive belts driving it? (i dont know how its driven on the l98, lt1 its gear driven).
im sure you checked this already, but whats the coolant fluid level?
Id start by bleeding the coolant system. bleed your hoses, 'burp' the system (ie. on cold start: let it run with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens). Actually im not sure of the proper bleed procedure on the l98 cars.
Finally, are there any issue with the tune or O2 sensors (ie. things that could cause it to run lean and generate excessive heat?).
02-20-2011, 12:54 PM
#7
Race Director
What was your coolant level after all this? Time for a leakdown test.
02-20-2011, 01:00 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
The new BIN file had the temps as follows:
Fan1 Enable: Orig 88C New BIN:108C
Fan1 Disable:Orig 85C New BIN:105C
Fan2 Enable: Orig 91C New BIN:113C
Fan2 Disable: Orig 87C New BIN:108
So I put the BIN file to the original, lower settings.
Upgraded Edlebrock mechanical water pump, not very old and a Dewitts massive radiator. I did fill up the coolant a couple of weeks ago but worth checking it again.
Now the o2 sensors could be it. I am running a Innovate wide band sensor and one time it did kind of go nutz on me. It threw a code on the wide band monitor and unplugging it and recalibrating their computer fixed it. Not doing that now. But still, that could be a possible cause.
Fan1 Enable: Orig 88C New BIN:108C
Fan1 Disable:Orig 85C New BIN:105C
Fan2 Enable: Orig 91C New BIN:113C
Fan2 Disable: Orig 87C New BIN:108
So I put the BIN file to the original, lower settings.
sorry to hear about this...
do you have the electric water pump or stock OEM mechanical? if its mechanical are your drive belts driving it? (i dont know how its driven on the l98, lt1 its gear driven).
im sure you checked this already, but whats the coolant fluid level?
Id start by bleeding the coolant system. bleed your hoses, 'burp' the system (ie. on cold start: let it run with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens). Actually im not sure of the proper bleed procedure on the l98 cars.
Finally, are there any issue with the tune or O2 sensors (ie. things that could cause it to run lean and generate excessive heat?).
do you have the electric water pump or stock OEM mechanical? if its mechanical are your drive belts driving it? (i dont know how its driven on the l98, lt1 its gear driven).
im sure you checked this already, but whats the coolant fluid level?
Id start by bleeding the coolant system. bleed your hoses, 'burp' the system (ie. on cold start: let it run with the radiator cap off until the thermostat opens). Actually im not sure of the proper bleed procedure on the l98 cars.
Finally, are there any issue with the tune or O2 sensors (ie. things that could cause it to run lean and generate excessive heat?).
Now the o2 sensors could be it. I am running a Innovate wide band sensor and one time it did kind of go nutz on me. It threw a code on the wide band monitor and unplugging it and recalibrating their computer fixed it. Not doing that now. But still, that could be a possible cause.
02-20-2011, 05:32 PM
#10
Instructor
Member Since: Feb 2010
Location: deltona fl
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just a thought, but i personally would not let let it hit 240 before shutting it down.
you said you noticed it creeping up in temp and you kept sitting in traffic? why not pull over before you risk damage and wait the traffic out, or long enough to cool down.
just my .02
you said you noticed it creeping up in temp and you kept sitting in traffic? why not pull over before you risk damage and wait the traffic out, or long enough to cool down.
just my .02
02-20-2011, 07:28 PM
#13
Pro
I would lower the fan temperatures to 76.7 degree C & 81 degree C, Change your thermostat to 190 / 195 fail safe. By having the fans come on sooner will somewhat ensure that the water entering the block when the thermostat open will be cooler and the fan will run until the coolant temp is around 170 degrees F
02-20-2011, 08:34 PM
#14
Race Director
I would fill the radiator and the reservoir with coolant and monitor the level when cold every day.
02-20-2011, 10:46 PM
#15
Race Director
FYI:
my fan settings are as follows:
Fan 1 enable: 83 degrees C - low MPH
Fan 1 enable: 86 degrees C - high MPH
Fan 2 enable: 85.25 degrees C - low MPH
Fan 2 enable: 88.25 degrees C - high MPH
I have no idea what is considered 'low MPH' and what is considered 'high MPH'.
The fan threshold vehicle MPH is set as '0 MPH'. So maybe that means It considers everything as 'high MPH'.
Anyways, these settings work for me. This is on a 93 lt1. I dont know if that makes a difference.
I also run 'water wetter' and run a 40/60 antifreeze / distilled water mixture for additional heat transfer characteristics.
good luck.
my fan settings are as follows:
Fan 1 enable: 83 degrees C - low MPH
Fan 1 enable: 86 degrees C - high MPH
Fan 2 enable: 85.25 degrees C - low MPH
Fan 2 enable: 88.25 degrees C - high MPH
I have no idea what is considered 'low MPH' and what is considered 'high MPH'.
The fan threshold vehicle MPH is set as '0 MPH'. So maybe that means It considers everything as 'high MPH'.
Anyways, these settings work for me. This is on a 93 lt1. I dont know if that makes a difference.
I also run 'water wetter' and run a 40/60 antifreeze / distilled water mixture for additional heat transfer characteristics.
good luck.
02-21-2011, 07:40 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Only problem is that tank does not hold much coolant, so I always had to keep my eye on it since it would fill up with expansion when hot and spill over and then not have a lot left in it.
I am thinking that the BIN file I used had the fans turn on WAY too high a temp. That caused some of the electronics (Ostrich) in the engine compartment to go nutz and maybe lean out and maybe that heated up the exhaust and burned something under there I have not seen yet.
I seems to run fine, but I'll get one of those kits and do the test and see. I put back the original BIN file.
02-22-2011, 02:09 PM
#18
I was going to ask....
My Z06 tagged out at 260* up a canyon hill behind some slow people (below 35 mph). I pulled over right away and popped the hood. let it cool and it fires right up and drove home at a higher speed just fine. I found my coolant low, and then discovered the water pump leaking. tiny drips.
I would seriously look into a blown head gasket. One way I found that works well on pretty bad ones are to pop the radiator cap when the car is cool. let it idle up to temp and look in the fill for little bubbles.
Of course you should take a look at your oil.
My Z06 tagged out at 260* up a canyon hill behind some slow people (below 35 mph). I pulled over right away and popped the hood. let it cool and it fires right up and drove home at a higher speed just fine. I found my coolant low, and then discovered the water pump leaking. tiny drips.
I would seriously look into a blown head gasket. One way I found that works well on pretty bad ones are to pop the radiator cap when the car is cool. let it idle up to temp and look in the fill for little bubbles.
Of course you should take a look at your oil.
02-22-2011, 02:12 PM
#19
Are there any parts on the aftermarket resivour to addin an expansion tank? Maybe something the size of a bicycle water jug (since I knew a guy who put on on a mustang as an overflow lol)
