GREGGPENN

Burlington Performance in Raytown (Kansas City) is another option if you live close enough. Gotta like saving shipping both ways.

Mikey Morris

AFRs get my vote even over an AI ported stock head. The thick deck on AFRs are really great for guys to run power adders or want to in the future. AFRs have way more pontential even for a max effort n/a application as well.

tpi 421 vette

They were the stage 3 heads. I also asked before he worked on them what the port volume would be. He said 220cc's. They measured 243cc's. Another nice surprise.

96 lt-4

I bought a set of ported lt4 heads from him.Put them on the motor and lost power and tq everywhere.Pulled them off,had my machinist redo the valve job and dynoed the car.Then it ONLY made what the stock heads did.
To his credit Loyd bought them back from me for what I paid for them.I had to eat the labor,valve job,dyno time,and shipping back.
I had sold my stock heads so I had nothing to put on my engine.I bit the bullet and put AFR heads on and could'nt be happier.
The biggest disappointment was the loss of low end and mid range torque across the powerband.I believe the intake runners were opened up well past the 195cc for an lt4.The heads might have done well on an 8000rpm motor with lots of gear but not for me.
I had heard nothing but good things about him before purchasing them.I don't like publicly bashing anyone but his heads did not work for me.Your results may vary.

He was very helpful and readily available throughout the process and quickly returned my money.I only wish that had'nt been needed.

tombrammer

Don't consider it bashing Loyd at all, stuff happens, it's hard for the guy in business who is trying to make a living and for the guy wanting something different (which porting a stock head is, it's risky). But there are also a lot of unknowns out there so it's nice to hear others experiences on the forum. I guess that is part of the reason why Loyd ports your heads and sells you a cam for 1200. bucks and a nice set of afr's are 1800+. We vett lovers really get ripped off on heads because you can buy heads for any other small block for a lot less!! Here is a good article to get some more info.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ade/index.html
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...son/index.html
The trick flow heads were pretty close to the AFR's.

turbotim23

Hey afer doing some looking for used AFR heads I found some used 190 afr pre eliminator type heads locally. The plugs angle in toward each other. Don't know if they are worth it or are the right ones. The guy wants 1000.00 for them but if they are the right ones I might give him a offer on them. Thanks Tim

bobmic93

Im Extremely happy with A.I and all the guidence Ron and Phil were through the entire project. Gained 90 rwhp and 50 rwtq and dropped over a full sec at the track from 13.8 to 12.5 all day and a best of 12.2 all on a relatively mean small cam 215/224 just listen http://www.streetfire.net/video/93-l...ette_99186.htm

STL94LT1

If I was doing an all-out build I would purchase AI massaged TrickFlows or AFR Eliminators. But, at the time I did my heads/cam the TrickFlows weren't available and AFR was going through some quality issues with their heads. I went with CNC Cylinder Heads (no longer in business) CNC ported LT1 stock castings, and overall I am pleased with my stock ported heads. The car will trap 119 mph on a consistant basis, and this is with a fairly mild camshaft and a stock lower end.

cv67

Those were real good heads,if they have recieved more work might be worth 1000 Id offer less though. Youre not far from the cost of a set of new ones.

bobmic93

Talk to Loyd but, I think he uses pretty big cams in his swaps and that would require lots of stall ( 2800 to 3200). More to this picture then just heads. Its really about the correct combo of : Heads/ cam/ gears/ stall and obviously a good exhaust in relations to where you want your power low middle or high end. Other things to consider gas milage, streetmanners and emissions. Go to A.I or Loyd and give them these answers and both will steer u right. Lots not forget the tune. All and all I ended up spending 5g with everything when all is said and done. Since you r digging deep in the motor its a good time to change the opti, plugs, wires, heated O2s, timming chain, water pump. Things to think about.

turbotim23

Well I finally called AFR, they said the 190 AFR heads are for vortech motor only and will not fit a LT1. They said I should use the AFR 180 heads[part number 0908] w/stock 55cc size chambers or I could use the AFR 195 heads if I wanted to just buy one head size and was planning to go to a bigger motor later but it would lose a lot in performance until I wint bigger .

GREGGPENN

Interesting....I wondered about the quality of AFRs phone techs before. Now I know.

cv67

This "growing into " business...forget it. Get the head you need for the motor you have RIGHT now youll be a lot happier. Not every 350 needs a 300 cfm head, nothing wrong with a good flowing 180 head especially on a mild buildup. Too big a head and youll lose torque throttle response etc. not saying that will happen with any brand head in particular but as a general rule of thumb size things right the first time and you wont be thinking about upgrading everything within 6 mos. How many times do you want to build your motor maybe finances down the road wont permit it. Living that one right now.

If you want a stroker than wait, get more $ and do itnow.
Want a 350 then build it the way you think it would be happy

GREGGPENN

I gotta disagree with you, Ron. And, the AFR techs too.

A very smart builder (who built many motors and owned his own business) helped me decide on the 195s. This was BEFORE I decided on the 383. His actual quote was "The 195s are the best choice for your build. They have the port velocity of the OLD 180 heads and the flow of a 210 head. They are the best of both worlds." He also went on to say how tons of clients were thrilled with the throttle response of the large port Vortecs (over 200cc) before this new era of heads hit. Of course, this builder also knew I had the very smallest of desires to build a 383. At that time, I seriously doubted I'd do it though!

While you could also make the point that an Eliminator 180 is more than enough to support a long-tube TPI 383 application, you can also say the 195's on a short-runner 350 would be a better setup. (You might even be able to say there's no Corvette that's better off chosing a 180 head.)

I've yet to talk to a single person who doesn't think the AFR 195's are the best all-around street head built by AFR. I can't see anyone -- including AFR recommending anything other than a 195 for someone even half considering a 383. Moreover, I can't understand why they belittle it's throttle-response.

It's just bad salemanship IMO. Look up the old, LONG thread started by Mamo back in the summer of 2008. Even Tony said the notion of port velocity in his eliminators was blown way out of proportion. It's just not important anymore.

Get the 195s. See if Jim agrees. (BTW, he's not the builder mentioned above.)

turbotim23

Well I'm starting to think that about Comp Cams Tech guys too. I called them to get an idea of my using Comp's 503 cam in this setup. They told me without a higher stall converter I should only go to a Comp 501 cam,I didn't want to hear that! I realy don't want gas mileage around town to drop that much and I've heard a high stall makes it drop big time. I wonder if I wint with a 2500 stall if that would be enough?

cv67

195 the all around 350 head possibly but the 180 was made for a reason.
In the Ops first two posts says he wants something mild that will not be highly modded meaning small cam, converter etc. LTR set up? Dont see where the TPI could take advantage of the larger head. 383 with better intake, sure.
There is something to throttle response/head size for sure but some of that has to do with cam size/compression also. Ill say this Id trade my large tricked out Darts for a smaller set of AFRs in a hot second. Guarantee it would be faster overall despite flow# comparos. The torque alone would be the clincher. To each their own though.