RED-85-Z51

I asked about a DQ setup in OT, did alot of research online and talked to some folks that have run a street multi carb setup, the end result Ive come up with is that with the right heads and cam, it can easily perform (with careful tuning), as well as a Single 4v setup, but with more top end power on tap if needed.

Obviously, with 1000 cfm worth of carbs, doesnt mean you WILL flow 1000cfm, it just means that if the need should arise, there will be no restrictions up to 1000cfm...

So anyways, Im doing my damndest to plan this out as best I can, Ive given up on TPI, Mini-Ram, etc...too much headache on a 25 year old car, add to the fact it costs alot of money to setup, and it is restrictive on power unless you pay 500 for an intake, 400 for a plenum, 500 on runners, 300+ on a throttle body...then play $$ to have it hogged out and polished....

So with my top end figured out, the Dual 500 cfm Edlebrock Mid-rise setup with the air-gap manifold, I moved onto coming to grips with the fact that no parts of it was going to clear even an extreme cowl hood, so Im going to have to cut the hood. SO I got to thinking, perfect oportunity to take advantage of genuine ram air! So I picked out the Mr. Gasket Street Scoop, with its finned hat and polished finish, 3 red anodized butterflies...will look awesome perched atop the quads, and yet be fully functional.

For heads, Im still solid on the Brodix IK200's, got to have some velocity, and its still just a 383.

Cam choice has me stumped...I want it to breath well, but I dont want a huge overlap cam thats just going to bleed off compression.
This cam has good numbers...the 108LSA is a bit much...but it looks good overall.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1950&gid=277

And obviously the whole bottom end will be fully forged...But what kind of compression should I dial in with 64cc heads to work with that cam, and still work okay with 93 octane? I was shooting for originally 11:1 static..with that cam I may need more.

My goal is a badass engine I can race, and if I want to, drive to work, or to a car show. But street manners are not as important, Im figuring on a 2800rpm stall on a 700R4...and 3.73 gears.

Am I far off?

mseven

Personally I would never do a dual quad set-up on a little motor/small block. If I were doing a carbed motor, a single dominator will work just fine.

TJM

My goal is a badass engine I can race, and if I want to, drive to work, or to a car show. But street manners are not as important, Im figuring on a 2800rpm stall on a 700R4...and 3.73 gears.

Am I far off?[/QUOTE]

No not so far, because the dual quads are what you want to see. Petty clear you appreciate all the negative aspects about them.

But someone on the other thread you had going had an excellent suggestion I will repeat.. see the C1 guys. There should be real world expertise with those guys.

283's had quads.. Gad!! 265 had quads !!!! 327 also. So a 383 is too "little".... don't get that?

The theory that quads won't work is alien to me, having driven these cars when LBJ was President... and yes, they ran great, did not "bog" and rivaled fuel injection [ then].

[ want bog?.. get a single quadrajet and try to make that work!]

For racing, carbs are an excellent choices [ helps if you can set one up?]. For everyday they are merley just OK, for economy ... well forget it,.... you can't keep the cake and eat it too... that's why FI was invented!

But what the heck... that's what you want to see and it's not "bad".

I am sure I will get flamed here, but go to a track, any track, and peek under the hoods.... lots and LOTS of carburators... ???

Me? I have a 750 Holley on the track car, never considered anything else.

The '89 garage queen has FI would not consider anything else.

So go for it, it'll be fun and what's it all about, if not fun?

TJM

RED-85-Z51

No not so far, because the dual quads are what you want to see. Petty clear you appreciate all the negative aspects about them.

But someone on the other thread you had going had an excellent suggestion I will repeat.. see the C1 guys. There should be real world expertise with those guys.

283's had quads.. Gad!! 265 had quads !!!! 327 also. So a 383 is too "little".... don't get that?

The theory that quads won't work is alien to me, having driven these cars when LBJ was President... and yes, they ran great, did not "bog" and rivaled fuel injection [ then].

[ want bog?.. get a single quadrajet and try to make that work!]

For racing, carbs are an excellent choices [ helps if you can set one up?]. For everyday they are merley just OK, for economy ... well forget it,.... you can't keep the cake and eat it too... that's why FI was invented!

But what the heck... that's what you want to see and it's not "bad".

I am sure I will get flamed here, but go to a track, any track, and peek under the hoods.... lots and LOTS of carburators... ???

Me? I have a 750 Holley on the track car, never considered anything else.

The '89 garage queen has FI would not consider anything else.

So go for it, it'll be fun and what's it all about, if not fun?

TJM[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the post man. Yeah, if you want bog, a Q-jet is where its at, had 2 of them and both, despite rebuilds, careful adjustment by myself, and an ASE qualified MAster Tech, couldnt be relieved of their nasty off idle bog when the secondaries were punched.

My dad had a 79 Vette with a built 350, and he had a dual Quad setup, and he actualy had it setup as a DD, and he drove it from like...1983 until 1986 when I was born, he said it was slick as snot and got 8mpg if you drove any way other than easy.

389's were 6v setups, and were considered very responsive and fast for the day.

Obviously for smoothness and economy, EFI is hard to beat. But EFI coems with headaches.

Lets lay out the main parts of operating an EFI system/computer.

ECM
02 Sensor
MAFS
IAT sensor
Water temp sensor
IAC valve
8 injectors
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Enrichment injector (cold start)
Throttle body
plenum
runners
Intake manifold

The technical aspect of EFI...the computer has to be calibrated to fire the injectors at the right time, and for the right length of time so the correct amt of fuel goes into the cylinders, and it uses the sensors to do this...if any part fails or degrades, performance is lost.

The primary parts of a carbureted setup.

Fuel pump in tank
Intake manifold
Carburetors.

The technical aspect...as fuel is drawn by the pistons into the engine it runs through the carb and creates a low pressure zone behind the Venturi and it drafts fuel in...it draws as much fuel as is demanded.

And obviously BOTH setups rely on proper tuning...and is assumed to have been done correctly...however carb tuning can be done with a screwdriver and a vacuum gauge. Where as tuning an EFI engine requires a tuning device, software and a laptop, and even then you have to know the system and values.

Benny42

It sounds like you have a pretty good grip on the tech stuff.
The hardest part may be fitting it under the hood.

RED-85-Z51

Crepitus

2X4 I have used then a lot on boats, work good on big engines, look impressive. If thats what puts a grin on your face go for it! Talk or email to a couple different carb specialist like AED, Barry Grant see what they recommend. The guys at AED are really cool. Be sure to have all your specs ready.

I like that cam, gears and converter a must. Compression; With the intake closing at iirc 42 deg, with a decent aluminum head, I would go with about 10.25scr. 11-1 is too much. 10.5 you could probably get away with if your carefull. But why run a recreational engine close to detonation? Leave some wiggle room here, it will cost a few unnoticeable horses make it a lot easyer to tune. And maby keep it from going BOOM! Be sure to talk to the cam grinder about compression.

pr0zac

I dont think you would have a real need for a dual quad setup. my car is around 450rwhp with the stock ecm. no tunnel ram sticking out of the hood or carb needed. if you think that 2 decent carbs is going to be less then a mini ram you are on crack. and anything is going to show wear. i guess you just cant get things into peoples heads sometimes. and those older small cu in engines ran more then one carb cause said carbs didn't flow worth a crap. its the 21 century.. use the technology out there.

RichS

My Dad's 56 Belair vert has a 400, solid roller, and dual quads. The car actually drives pretty good on the street and highway. No bogging and has alot of power for a tank lol. I really enjoy driving it.

Were currently building a Flathead that will have 3 stromburgs for the 38 Ford Delux, and a 41 ****** with a 454bb and dual Dominators. He has a small block chevy and pontiac intake for 6 one barrels. He loves his carbs, even though I bust him about fuel injection.

I say if that's what you want build away!!!!

TJM

Ouch....!

Different strokes for different folks. The OP likes quads?

As far as the cost of that sort of crack......

Dual Quads, complete run $1,000.00 to $1,200.00

Stealth Ram, with bells and whistles is $2,600.00 + screwing with injectors at $200.00 a set. [ sort of like jets but more $$$ ].

Also, if we disallow the Consumers Digest criteria " overall driving and fuel economy" sort of vibe [ which the OP has...] then Carbs. do the job just fine

Sure, they they require more effort, a bit more mechanical expertise needed, versus say, ..... reading software and tuning with a Lap Top .. [ although the "white collar way" is easier on the cuticles and fewer tools needed?] .. And YES really good carbs. cost more than the Edelbrock units.............


... but kidding aside,... lets put the crack pipe down...

TRANS AM Corvettes run 200MPM [Well, 190mph at Road Atl. last Oct.] and every one I have seen had a big fat Holley on top of it? That would constitute the front five in that race.

Inserting too that they turned in the same lap times as the factory corvettes...... so it's not just WOT ?

TJM

pr0zac

wow i guess you told me.. i am going to go throw my fuel injection out and go buy a demon carb.. i heard they were really cool looking. perhaps two. cause learning how to use a computer and taking the effort to use the technology that on my car is a real stupid idea.. maybe i can throw some wooden wheels on my car also. then i can go around comparing it to some race car that runs in a class with a set of rules that is totally unrelated to anything to do with what i intend to use my car for. any other great ideas?

TJM

No I guess I didn't???

What you do with your car is probably what I do with my '89 Drive it pretty much as is.

I have tweaked it, managed about 300hp at the wheels, with a few modifications, get & enjoy a nice running car. Very modern.

But the point you miss is the OP .... [ it is his thread about DQ after all] ... wants quads and they aren't bone stupid.

And ignoring Tech is not the point either. The quads are different maybe? Old school maybe?? But not stupid.

The cost isn't upside down, and if that's what he likes, it works.



I'd stay away from wooden wheels.

TJM

TJM

Ah???? .... ummmmmm? No.

TJM

GREGGPENN

Sounds like you know it won't demand 1000cfm but just want the do the DQ setup for looks. More than one intake will provide the top end and get better mpg to boot.

tpi 421 vette

Personally, I see no need for a dual quad set up unless it's a hardcore 8 or 7 second 1/4 mile car. Dual carbs on a street car is pretty much for looks. The cars back in the 50's and 60's that came with them are far surpassed with either modern a single 4bbl or fuel injection.

ddahlgren

I figure it is his car and does want a cookie cutter solution. The best setup is the one that makes you happy I would think. There are all different versions of best in the end. The orginal poster seems to know what he is giving up to get the look he wants. After all the GM engineers wanted to have a roof brace and separate removable tops like a C3 but the stylists said no. The TPI was never put on for performance it was to meet milage requirements and they easiest way to do that is make torque and turn the engine slowly. So at the end of the day every car is full of compromises. Would you take a road race car rock climbing?
Dave