Meant to lower, ended higher?
03-06-2010, 05:52 PM
#1
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Meant to lower, ended higher?
Ok so I bought some stiff springs and planned to do the swap along with dropping at the same time. I got the springs off an 84 or 85 and bought the wedges and bolts online (probably ebay can't remember). I did the front today and it actually raised it about a half an inch! What did I screw up? Before I put the wedges on, I took all the existing rubber off the spring down to the comp. Besides that, I didn't change a thing. Anybody else run into this, any ideas?
PICS:
BEFORE CAR:
This is the before measurement:
After Car:
After Measurement:
Bonus under hood shot:
PICS:
BEFORE CAR:
This is the before measurement:
After Car:
After Measurement:
Bonus under hood shot:
Last edited by Turbogtu; 03-06-2010 at 05:56 PM.
03-06-2010, 07:01 PM
#2
Safety Car
First off... We need more info, whats under the hood and what power is it making???
Now after we get that info maybe we can help!
Im just kidding (sorta). Anyway, maybe its just because your wedges are larger than your old ones. Or maybe you just have to wait for the suspension to settle down a little???
Just a thought...
Now after we get that info maybe we can help!Im just kidding (sorta). Anyway, maybe its just because your wedges are larger than your old ones. Or maybe you just have to wait for the suspension to settle down a little???
Just a thought...
03-06-2010, 08:15 PM
#3
That is strange.
You cut the rubber, and added lowering wedges and it went higher> I would recheck my work, something is obviously not in the right spot. If the car was dropped before, which I can see it was not, then I could see there maybe being a difference, but something is in wrong, or wrong parts.
You cut the rubber, and added lowering wedges and it went higher> I would recheck my work, something is obviously not in the right spot. If the car was dropped before, which I can see it was not, then I could see there maybe being a difference, but something is in wrong, or wrong parts.
03-07-2010, 12:16 AM
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I'm hoping the settling idea is right, that is what I was hoping to hear. I'll put some miles on it tomorrow to see. The big x factor is the spring I pulled out was a really soft one and it was obvious by how extremely curved it was compared to the one I put in. I almost couldn't get the car high enough to pull it out. The wedges were definately shorter than what the stock spring had, and I definately shaved it as low as I could. And I know that the wedges ended up in the right place because they are locked there by c shaped brackets that hold the spring to the crossmember. I'm stumped if it doesn't drop.
I figured the swap would get some attention. It's actually an LQ with LS2 intake. Moderate cam and valve springs. 4.10 rear. T56. Custom pvc intake duct (ha) - haven't been able to find anything to swing it straight out over the radiator. Thought about trying a fifth gen duct but they are crazy pricey. Anyone thinking of doing a swap let me know and I'll give some of my lessons learned. Big one is anyone building up a GenIII or later engine is KEY THE CRANK. There are cheap and easy ways of doing it, especially when the engine is out. If you skip this you are asking for trouble. I ended up drilling the crank and ballancer from the front and putting a dowel in (after ejecting the ballancer at high speed). Although I think the better way would be to drill the crank from the top, put roll pins in and get a keyed ballancer.
I figured the swap would get some attention. It's actually an LQ with LS2 intake. Moderate cam and valve springs. 4.10 rear. T56. Custom pvc intake duct (ha) - haven't been able to find anything to swing it straight out over the radiator. Thought about trying a fifth gen duct but they are crazy pricey. Anyone thinking of doing a swap let me know and I'll give some of my lessons learned. Big one is anyone building up a GenIII or later engine is KEY THE CRANK. There are cheap and easy ways of doing it, especially when the engine is out. If you skip this you are asking for trouble. I ended up drilling the crank and ballancer from the front and putting a dowel in (after ejecting the ballancer at high speed). Although I think the better way would be to drill the crank from the top, put roll pins in and get a keyed ballancer.
Last edited by Turbogtu; 03-07-2010 at 12:24 AM.
03-07-2010, 12:49 AM
#8
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St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-‘19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
Chances are the front spring is somewhat in a bind.
Drive it around for a while and remeasure.
Drive it around for a while and remeasure.
03-07-2010, 11:47 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
The problem could be that the car the springs came out of was an early '84, '85,'86 car with iron heads, and the springs are tuned for the extra weight. (approx. 65 lbs on the nose of the car.)
second, the settling may work, but your car may be higher, but the tape measure is in a different place between the two pics, it's still higher, but not as much as the tape would indicate.
First off, did you weigh the two engines when you did the swap?
Those springs are year specific on the first 3 years of production.
ALSO
You need to give more info on:
1. the electronic engine management.
2. what trans?
3. engine mounts
4 dash indications
5. power steering interface
That looks so doable, I'm already salivating.
second, the settling may work, but your car may be higher, but the tape measure is in a different place between the two pics, it's still higher, but not as much as the tape would indicate.
First off, did you weigh the two engines when you did the swap?
Those springs are year specific on the first 3 years of production.
ALSO
You need to give more info on:
1. the electronic engine management.
2. what trans?
3. engine mounts
4 dash indications
5. power steering interface
That looks so doable, I'm already salivating.
Last edited by coupeguy2001; 03-07-2010 at 11:55 AM.
03-07-2010, 03:51 PM
#10
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Thanks for the info on the early springs. I'll have to do some more research to see if that applies to me.
The pcm is a stock unit from a 99 - later vehicle - 12200411 - must use this unit. However beware that if it comes from a vehicle that had a distributor (may only apply to the 4.3L) then you will have to change the OS to use it as the stock one has no ignition. This can be done with EFI Live, maybe HP Tuners or the best way is if you know a dealership person that can hook you up with a GM Tech 2. Also beware that these are delicate. I went with EFI Live and I toasted 8 pcms. Luckily the awesome folks at EFI Live were understanding and gave me a free license every time I roasted one, made it sting a little less. - lesson is if you are using a stand alone harness for flashing don't mess with a wall plug, just get a jump pack and use it for powering the pcm.
the trans is a t56.
The mounts are a combination of an ebay buy and my own creation. The ebayers were claimed to be bolt ons, so I tried them first, turns out you have to waller out the stock mount holes to make them work - they sit about a half inch wide on both sides. I had already done a t56 swap when I had the l98 in, so I opted to go a different direction. I cut the stock mounts completely out down to the subframe. I installed the trans and bolted the engine to it. With the engine hanging, I took some measurements and made my own units that I welded to the subfram and bolted to the ebayers. I think that this paid off in the long run because from looking at pictures and stories of others swaps, it seems mine may have ended up lower and farther back. This helped with clearance in the front. I did have to completely remove the a/c evaporator and the associated housing. I cut it back near the blower fan and made an aluminum box to connect the blower fan to the ductwork in the car.
Only dash functions that I lost was the fuel milage info and the oil temp. You can alter the stock pcm to output what you need for the tach. Coolant temp sensor for a 98 camero takes care of reporting coolant temp to the pcm and dash (these are three wire units). For oil pressure I just used the sensor that was on the engine, seems to work fine with the dash. I don't think that I did anything to get the voltage to read out. For the speedometer I used a dakota digital sgi-5. The stock pcm does allow for the speed output from it to be varied, but I couldn't get it to work with the dash. It's a one wire output and all the combinations I tried didn't give me anything on the dash, plus I already had the sgi5 from doing the t56 swap before.
For power steering I bought a half a dozen pumps and pulleys along with the unit that was designed for the accessory set up that I am using (c5 vette). What I found was that there are two shaft diameters on those style of pumps, 3/4" and 5/8". So the pulleys won't work on all of them, and some spin cw and some ccw, so your mixing and matching options start dwindling. The stock c4 (L98) unit won't work because the pulley is too big, hits the upper control arm mount. The stock c5 unit will fit, but you would have to notch the upper control arm mount for the belt to clear. What I ended up using was an LT-1 unit. I think it was used on all LT-1s. But it's not a bolt on. The suction line fitting on the pump has to be modified.
The pcm is a stock unit from a 99 - later vehicle - 12200411 - must use this unit. However beware that if it comes from a vehicle that had a distributor (may only apply to the 4.3L) then you will have to change the OS to use it as the stock one has no ignition. This can be done with EFI Live, maybe HP Tuners or the best way is if you know a dealership person that can hook you up with a GM Tech 2. Also beware that these are delicate. I went with EFI Live and I toasted 8 pcms. Luckily the awesome folks at EFI Live were understanding and gave me a free license every time I roasted one, made it sting a little less. - lesson is if you are using a stand alone harness for flashing don't mess with a wall plug, just get a jump pack and use it for powering the pcm.
the trans is a t56.
The mounts are a combination of an ebay buy and my own creation. The ebayers were claimed to be bolt ons, so I tried them first, turns out you have to waller out the stock mount holes to make them work - they sit about a half inch wide on both sides. I had already done a t56 swap when I had the l98 in, so I opted to go a different direction. I cut the stock mounts completely out down to the subframe. I installed the trans and bolted the engine to it. With the engine hanging, I took some measurements and made my own units that I welded to the subfram and bolted to the ebayers. I think that this paid off in the long run because from looking at pictures and stories of others swaps, it seems mine may have ended up lower and farther back. This helped with clearance in the front. I did have to completely remove the a/c evaporator and the associated housing. I cut it back near the blower fan and made an aluminum box to connect the blower fan to the ductwork in the car.
Only dash functions that I lost was the fuel milage info and the oil temp. You can alter the stock pcm to output what you need for the tach. Coolant temp sensor for a 98 camero takes care of reporting coolant temp to the pcm and dash (these are three wire units). For oil pressure I just used the sensor that was on the engine, seems to work fine with the dash. I don't think that I did anything to get the voltage to read out. For the speedometer I used a dakota digital sgi-5. The stock pcm does allow for the speed output from it to be varied, but I couldn't get it to work with the dash. It's a one wire output and all the combinations I tried didn't give me anything on the dash, plus I already had the sgi5 from doing the t56 swap before.
For power steering I bought a half a dozen pumps and pulleys along with the unit that was designed for the accessory set up that I am using (c5 vette). What I found was that there are two shaft diameters on those style of pumps, 3/4" and 5/8". So the pulleys won't work on all of them, and some spin cw and some ccw, so your mixing and matching options start dwindling. The stock c4 (L98) unit won't work because the pulley is too big, hits the upper control arm mount. The stock c5 unit will fit, but you would have to notch the upper control arm mount for the belt to clear. What I ended up using was an LT-1 unit. I think it was used on all LT-1s. But it's not a bolt on. The suction line fitting on the pump has to be modified.
03-07-2010, 08:36 PM
#11
Safety Car
The problem could be that the car the springs came out of was an early '84, '85,'86 car with iron heads, and the springs are tuned for the extra weight. (approx. 65 lbs on the nose of the car.)
second, the settling may work, but your car may be higher, but the tape measure is in a different place between the two pics, it's still higher, but not as much as the tape would indicate.
First off, did you weigh the two engines when you did the swap?
Those springs are year specific on the first 3 years of production.
ALSO
You need to give more info on:
1. the electronic engine management.
2. what trans?
3. engine mounts
4 dash indications
5. power steering interface
That looks so doable, I'm already salivating.
second, the settling may work, but your car may be higher, but the tape measure is in a different place between the two pics, it's still higher, but not as much as the tape would indicate.
First off, did you weigh the two engines when you did the swap?
Those springs are year specific on the first 3 years of production.
ALSO
You need to give more info on:
1. the electronic engine management.
2. what trans?
3. engine mounts
4 dash indications
5. power steering interface
That looks so doable, I'm already salivating.
03-09-2010, 04:01 PM
#13
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I think my driveway may be partially to blame. Drove it to work the other day and it didn't look so bad when I parked, but when I got home it was the same.
I did realize that I left in two spacers that should give me about a half inch...so back to the stock height.
I didn't see any springs other than the base and z51 for the 84 and I have the z51 front one and base rear.
Is it ok to remove the rubber pads on the ends of the spring? I was thinking that would give me another half and inch and reduce binding. Seems that I've seen pictures with them like that, but I would like some reassurance, or at least no negative experiences.
Looks damn goofy with the back lowered and the nose up in the air.
I did realize that I left in two spacers that should give me about a half inch...so back to the stock height.
I didn't see any springs other than the base and z51 for the 84 and I have the z51 front one and base rear.
Is it ok to remove the rubber pads on the ends of the spring? I was thinking that would give me another half and inch and reduce binding. Seems that I've seen pictures with them like that, but I would like some reassurance, or at least no negative experiences.
Looks damn goofy with the back lowered and the nose up in the air.
03-09-2010, 06:09 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
I think my driveway may be partially to blame. Drove it to work the other day and it didn't look so bad when I parked, but when I got home it was the same.
I did realize that I left in two spacers that should give me about a half inch...so back to the stock height.
I didn't see any springs other than the base and z51 for the 84 and I have the z51 front one and base rear.
Is it ok to remove the rubber pads on the ends of the spring? I was thinking that would give me another half and inch and reduce binding. Seems that I've seen pictures with them like that, but I would like some reassurance, or at least no negative experiences.
Looks damn goofy with the back lowered and the nose up in the air.
I did realize that I left in two spacers that should give me about a half inch...so back to the stock height.
I didn't see any springs other than the base and z51 for the 84 and I have the z51 front one and base rear.
Is it ok to remove the rubber pads on the ends of the spring? I was thinking that would give me another half and inch and reduce binding. Seems that I've seen pictures with them like that, but I would like some reassurance, or at least no negative experiences.
Looks damn goofy with the back lowered and the nose up in the air.
03-14-2010, 02:00 PM
#16
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Well the removal of the spacers and rubber ends did help it out, but it's still dissapointingly high. Guess I'm just stuck unless I get a different spring, but it is probably for the best. Already dragging the collectors in some situations.