Orr89rocz

I say fairly mild setups i mean hot street setups but still run pump gas and are driveable, much like my 383 last year which was a lower 11's machine.

My buddy has a 406 miniram motor with a TPIS 242/242 solid roller and old style AFR 195's which are slighly ported to flow near 280cfm that was in a 87 trans am now in a 93/94 firebird that went 10.8's with an auto th350/3.73 gear. T56 swap it has gone 11.0's with weak launches. traps in the 126-127 range

Another guy on thirdgen is running Canfield 195's on a 350 cubic inch motor and has gone bottom 11's at 123 with a solid flat tappet cam, around 240 degrees intake duration. AFR's would be comparable and on a larger motor, it would dip high 10's

The 195's can flat out move a car on the right setup.

Recently there were some 420-421" guys on here that should touch close to high 10's on motor with 195 comp port heads. It can be done

I dont want to get off topic with this thread tho. I still think these 235 heads are overkill for most builds that will see street time. Boosted motors possibly could benefit from the heads on a large inch motor, but i dont think you should use them unless your power goals are over 1000whp. 195-210s should be plenty with enough boost to get to 1000whp. I'm hoping to beable to hit 800whp with AFR 195's on a 401" motor. Nothing to radical either, just a 233/233 hyd roller cam and single plane efi. 20psi should hit 1000 crank hp which is near 800whp i think.

88BlackZ-51

Gotcha.


I am one of those guys, and the 421 will be starting up sometime next month hopefully with a little luck. I would be thrilled to trap 126-127 mph, but I couldn't care less about e.t.

Have a good one.

Orr89rocz

replied to your pm with abit more information. I think your car has a good shot at your goals, i just dont remember your exact combo, i thought you had a 421 or something in store but not sure of the heads/cam.

tpi 421 vette

I have the 2nd order ever placed for the 235's. I should see them around July 22. I will post pic's when they are in my hands.

I think they will wake up my 450!

Curveit

That's one Sneakey Boo you have there. I really like the widened Rally wheels...looks like you've tubbed it a bit.

Orr89rocz

Indeed it should! A 450 motor would be prime canidate for 235's. If i didnt build this twin turbo car, i would have built a big inch smally

88BlackZ-51

You are going to have one of the fastest C4's in the country Jim.

5abivt

Tony how do these ports line up compared to GM LT4 heads? Just wondering if they'll work with my headers and intake (LT4) ? Interested in this new Dart block too; these heads would be smoking on it !!

PM me a price with some Ti valves and super duper springs that can handle 8krpm

88BlackZ-51

Do the 235's come in LTx castings?

DeltaT

Since they are Gen I SBC style they are not a bolt-on to the LTx.

Jim

DeltaT

My plan is to try to hit the 8-900rwhp mark on <15psi pump gas so I went bigger on the heads. I also really wanted the additional exhaust flow these offer. With 434ci, lowend shouldn't be an issue... And I think with the low and mid-lift flow on these heads, the traditional sizing ideas need to be re-thought, especially with MPFI.

Jim

5abivt

Ahh my bad I was thinking these were eliminator reverse cooled heads. Sucks. More the reason for my next build to be an lsx !

mseven

Tony, that would be a big plus. In the future (or now) are you offering any additional milling for the genI heads that provide an overall lighter cylinder head ? Thanks, Mick

88BlackZ-51

The AFR 227cc Comp Eliminator heads (approx. 325cfm/245cfm @.650 lift) would be more then enough wouldn't they Mikey? I wouldn't think you would need the 235cc head.

Imagine your C4 with that new "Dart block" punched out to 420-430 cubes with an aggressive cam. Everyone and there brother builds LSx stuff. You wouldnt need to spin that to 7500 rpm's.

Are you coming to the auto-x in Barrie on Sunday? I posted it in the Cdn section.

Orr89rocz

I can see that being an easy possibility. I'll let you know what mine does here as I hope to have it done in a few more weeks and then another few weeks to break in/tune/dyno/race it. 15psi I calculate to make over 800 hp on motor so it should be near 700's at the tires. 20 should be closer to the 1000hp crank mark and this is on a 406 with 195 heads. I have heard that big bore 400+ inch motors cant seem to get enough head so larger runners may prove to be very effective. Good luck with the build

DeltaT

What are you using for your calculations? Do you have either of Corky Bell's books? Are you running a big IC? Your build sounds fun too...

My 383 hit 632rwhp through a locked-up 4L80E at only 11.8#, which has to be right around 800 at the motor, figuring a 20% drivetrain loss.

Jim

Orr89rocz

Yeah i got a decent sized intercooler that should be good for 1000hp or so.

I got a turbo book with a bunch of match calculations in the back. I put them into an excel spreadsheet for a quick calculator. Basically calculates lb/min of airflow required for desired hp range and will give theoretical amount of boost required to hit that hp level. I also have an ET estimater to go along with the hp numbers and if you enter your weight it will give estimated trap speed/et based on real data acquired from my old 383 n/a and nitrous'd motor as well as a few other real track numbers/weights from other cars around here. Just an estimate but close enough. Seems pretty close with other real cars i've tried.

With my 401, 15 lbs should get me near 875 hp or so, assuming somewhere in the 120 deg inlet temps.
The hp equation uses cubic inches to get the hp rating. I assume this should be n/a hp level and basically the equations are assuming your motor will make 1 hp per cubic inch displacement. If my 401 makes 450hp on motor, i plug in 450 and I believe that drops the boost down to more like 12, i have to check again but you get the idea. The general saying is you will double your hp with 2 times atmospheric pressure or 29.4 psi absolute which is 14.7 psi on your boost gauge.

So head flow/cam size/induction etc is all left out the equation. So your car with bigger heads like the 235's and bigger cam may make 500hp on motor or more so you will make more hp with less overall boost since your starting with more. If you like to check my calculator I can send it to yah. I think my latest version is on my work computer so i'll have to get it tomorrow.

DeltaT

Sounds very similar to the method in Corky's books, but if you have an Excel spreadsheet and don't mind sharing that would be great. I just used the old #8 pencil and wrote in the margins of the book until I figures enought to size the IC and injectors for the first round of the project. This is now the 3rd time I've gone up in size on the supercharger, but the first 2 weren't wasted - like your NA and nitrous motors there was a lot of learning involved.

Are you doing twins or a big single?

Jim

88BlackZ-51

Are you flowing these as well? I would like to compare the 235cc (whatever they measure) ports to my 196cc ports.

I heard somewhere in the 340cfm range at .650 lift. But that isn't fact!

Orr89rocz

Twins, just 60mm units so they aint huge but should be capable of near 1000 crank hp, which is 100 lbs/min of air flow about