Pulling the engine (LT1)
03-07-2009, 07:55 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=96GS#007;1569206807][QUOTE=fc_soldier;1569206711]Is this close enough or do I have to be dead on?
Your #1 piston probably isn't exactly at TDC, which will make it appear things are off.
Im using the cam degree kit and Im at TDC I believe. No matter what way I turn the crank it doesnt go past.
Your #1 piston probably isn't exactly at TDC, which will make it appear things are off.
03-07-2009, 08:05 PM
#42
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Im using this as a precedure also
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Cams...egreeACam.aspx
They line already have the timing chain installed and lined up before even starting the degreeing. Maybe I was a hair off before on TDC Ill start over.
http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Cams...egreeACam.aspx
They line already have the timing chain installed and lined up before even starting the degreeing. Maybe I was a hair off before on TDC Ill start over.
03-07-2009, 08:17 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
NO! Close enough doesn't work. It looks to be one tooth off from what I see in the photo.
First, bring the crank gear up to a position where it's at directly at 12 o'clock. Then turn the cam gear until it's directly at 6 o'clock.
Use any straight edge, like a ruler, to make sure the two dots are in alignment.
Jake
First, bring the crank gear up to a position where it's at directly at 12 o'clock. Then turn the cam gear until it's directly at 6 o'clock.
Use any straight edge, like a ruler, to make sure the two dots are in alignment.
Jake
03-07-2009, 08:24 PM
#44
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
NO! Close enough doesn't work. It looks to be one tooth off from what I see in the photo.
First, bring the crank gear up to a position where it's at directly at 12 o'clock. Then turn the cam gear until it's directly at 6 o'clock.
Use any straight edge, like a ruler, to make sure the two dots are in alignment.
Jake
First, bring the crank gear up to a position where it's at directly at 12 o'clock. Then turn the cam gear until it's directly at 6 o'clock.
Use any straight edge, like a ruler, to make sure the two dots are in alignment.
Jake
Ill do it right give me a sec.
03-07-2009, 08:41 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
Even if the engine would start, which is doubtful that it would, it would run terribly and you'd end up tearing it all back apart again - making for a LOT of extra work.
I did the math once, but I've forgotten just how many TEENS of degrees the cam would be off, but it would be off a lot.
My apologies.
Jake
03-07-2009, 09:04 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
The absolute best way to find exact TDC for the #1 piston is to use the postive stop method. The PSM eliminates the dwell time that the piston has at TDC - the time, measured in degrees, that the crank can still turn but while the piston will sit still and not move. Crank will turn but piston will not move = dwell time.
The PSM requires a flat bar (which you can fabricate) bolted to the block deck and which spans the piston bore.
A single bolt is installed in the center of the bar which protrudes down into the cylinder and inch or two (the amount it extends into the cylinder isn't important).
You would then manually turn the engine in both directions while watching the degree wheel to see where the pointer is pointing when the piston just touches the bolt. When the readings taken in both directions are the same, BINGO! That's absolute TDC.
If you decide to use the PSM, here's what you do.
First, install a pointer - it can be nothing more than a piece of coat hangar. Have it pointed at the degree wheel area. It's best to have the pointer directly inline with the hash mark on the degree wheel.
Now, bring the #1 piston up to TDC by eye-balling it.
Now, install the degree wheel in a position where ZERO on the wheel is aligned with your pointer's tip.
This is your starting point.
Now, turn the crank to drop the piston down in the hole BEING CAREFUL NOT TO DISTURB THE DEGREE WHEEL AND POINTER.
When the piston is several degrees down in the hole, install the rigid positive stop plate, using two of the head bolt holes in the block's deck to firmly hold it in place. You want the plate to be rigid enough so it won't bend or flex.
Now manually turn the crank in both directions and check the degree wheel reading each time the piston JUST comes into contact with the piston. Go easy as the piston approaches the extended bolt so as not to knick the piston. If you do, just sand it down once you're finished.
If the readings aren't identical, adjust to pointer by slightly bending it, and re-check. Once the readings are identical, you've found absolute TDC.
Now carefully remove the Positive Stop strap then turn the crank until the degree wheel reads ZERO. The piston will now be at absolute TDC.
The Positive Stop Method is the most precise way to find absolute TDC.
Also, finding absolute Top Dead Center for the #1 piston is the most critical part of degreeing in a cam. If TDC is off, every other degree wheel reading you take will also be off.
Hope this helps.
Jake
The PSM requires a flat bar (which you can fabricate) bolted to the block deck and which spans the piston bore.
A single bolt is installed in the center of the bar which protrudes down into the cylinder and inch or two (the amount it extends into the cylinder isn't important).
You would then manually turn the engine in both directions while watching the degree wheel to see where the pointer is pointing when the piston just touches the bolt. When the readings taken in both directions are the same, BINGO! That's absolute TDC.
If you decide to use the PSM, here's what you do.
First, install a pointer - it can be nothing more than a piece of coat hangar. Have it pointed at the degree wheel area. It's best to have the pointer directly inline with the hash mark on the degree wheel.
Now, bring the #1 piston up to TDC by eye-balling it.
Now, install the degree wheel in a position where ZERO on the wheel is aligned with your pointer's tip.
This is your starting point.
Now, turn the crank to drop the piston down in the hole BEING CAREFUL NOT TO DISTURB THE DEGREE WHEEL AND POINTER.
When the piston is several degrees down in the hole, install the rigid positive stop plate, using two of the head bolt holes in the block's deck to firmly hold it in place. You want the plate to be rigid enough so it won't bend or flex.
Now manually turn the crank in both directions and check the degree wheel reading each time the piston JUST comes into contact with the piston. Go easy as the piston approaches the extended bolt so as not to knick the piston. If you do, just sand it down once you're finished.
If the readings aren't identical, adjust to pointer by slightly bending it, and re-check. Once the readings are identical, you've found absolute TDC.
Now carefully remove the Positive Stop strap then turn the crank until the degree wheel reads ZERO. The piston will now be at absolute TDC.
The Positive Stop Method is the most precise way to find absolute TDC.
Also, finding absolute Top Dead Center for the #1 piston is the most critical part of degreeing in a cam. If TDC is off, every other degree wheel reading you take will also be off.
Hope this helps.
Jake
03-08-2009, 01:02 AM
#49
Tech Contributor
03-08-2009, 04:39 AM
#50
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Be sure and get the 7/16" version of the Pro Mags. Same price, just would need ARP studs, which are so much stiffer.
Don't know how high you rev it, but no matter since they are the same price. You may be glad in the future,
since it seems once you start this modding stuff, there is no stopping, except for money for some of us. Just my 2 cents.
rk
Don't know how high you rev it, but no matter since they are the same price. You may be glad in the future,
since it seems once you start this modding stuff, there is no stopping, except for money for some of us. Just my 2 cents.
rk
03-08-2009, 12:53 PM
#52
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Be sure and get the 7/16" version of the Pro Mags. Same price, just would need ARP studs, which are so much stiffer.
Don't know how high you rev it, but no matter since they are the same price. You may be glad in the future,
since it seems once you start this modding stuff, there is no stopping, except for money for some of us. Just my 2 cents.
rk
Don't know how high you rev it, but no matter since they are the same price. You may be glad in the future,
since it seems once you start this modding stuff, there is no stopping, except for money for some of us. Just my 2 cents.
rk
Yeah thats the ones I got.
Thanks the engine bay is dirty in the pic I've been cleaning it and its looking
03-08-2009, 05:22 PM
#55
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Im tring to degree my cam but I dont htink I have the right tools. What is the dial indictor used for the lifter? I cant use the one in the pic at the top can I? The kit I got for degreeing the cam is for when the heads are on the car I believe. I have the summit degree kit.
03-08-2009, 11:02 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
The best and easiest type to use is the type that fits directly into the lifter bore.
The dial indicator fits directly into the adapter; the adapter slides into the lifter bore hole and you get a direct reading. No magnets or long extensions (which can cause parallax error.)
Rotate the cam until the dial indicator reads maximum lobe lift, zero the dial indicator and take a .050 reading each side of max lift if you're using the Lobe Centerline Method.
CompCams and others sell them. The CompCams part number is 4925 for the adapter and 4909 for the dial indicator.
Comp also sells the positive stop plate use to find absolute Top Dead Center, part number 4933, when the heads are off.
You can check SummitRacing.com to see photos and the prices.
Jake
The dial indicator fits directly into the adapter; the adapter slides into the lifter bore hole and you get a direct reading. No magnets or long extensions (which can cause parallax error.)
Rotate the cam until the dial indicator reads maximum lobe lift, zero the dial indicator and take a .050 reading each side of max lift if you're using the Lobe Centerline Method.
CompCams and others sell them. The CompCams part number is 4925 for the adapter and 4909 for the dial indicator.
Comp also sells the positive stop plate use to find absolute Top Dead Center, part number 4933, when the heads are off.
You can check SummitRacing.com to see photos and the prices.
Jake
Last edited by JAKE; 03-08-2009 at 11:07 PM.
03-08-2009, 11:09 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
By the way, the setup in the photo looks like it's installed on an exhaust, not the intake.
Also, don't rely the dots on the gears being in alignment to tell you that the #1 piston is at Absolute Top Dead Center. You really should use the Positive Stop Method to establish that. Remember, finding Absolute Top Dead Center is the most critical part of degreeing a cam. As I wrote before, if it's off, every other reading will be off too.
Jake
Also, don't rely the dots on the gears being in alignment to tell you that the #1 piston is at Absolute Top Dead Center. You really should use the Positive Stop Method to establish that. Remember, finding Absolute Top Dead Center is the most critical part of degreeing a cam. As I wrote before, if it's off, every other reading will be off too.
Jake
Last edited by JAKE; 03-08-2009 at 11:13 PM.
03-10-2009, 12:44 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
After checking, redoing, and starting over about 8 times, I keep getting the same number of 105 for my lifter. Which is on the money... I called Lloyd and he said Im good to go. So Im moving on and I will start installing the Timing cover and Opti.
Any tips on setting up the opti?
Any tips on setting up the opti?