jsup

Hey, here's a motor that would be perfect for the Pepsi Challenge as described in earlier threads:

http://brodix.com/heads/ikdyno.html

This is 568 HP with out of the box IK 200 heads with no machine work. As cast heads. Hydraulic roller motor.

Brodix claims 29 HP gain to the 210 fully CNC'd heads. If we can accept this as a base, we can agree the base with the IK 210 would be 597 HP...

I already spoke to the engine builder. He has this motor in his shop and he will do the swap and run the Dyno for $2000. Seems like a good investment in marketing to me.

I say we take the 195 Street Ports, as this is the comparable head, and see what the dyno says. These heads should be sourced from a Dealer who has them on the shelf, as not to be a ringer head.

What do you think?

1989TransAm

What size motor is that?

cv67

Why not both mfrs CNC 210?

jsup

It would cost twice. He's willing to do a swap and a pull.

The IK CNC ported is 597 HP.. If Tony wants to make the case that the 210s are the equivalent head to the 210s ported, that's another story. They are not. The AFR 210s are more equivalent to the Track1s.

The IKs are Brodix entry level head at sub $1000 making 568..

Let's see apples to apples, I don't know if the AFR 210 is apples to apples to the IK 210s, we may have to step up to the Track1, which he does not have the motor for. So there's no point.

He has this motor, with the IK200s. We have that baseline. Let's get the equivalent head. The 195 flows more than the 210s so how isn't that fair?

Seems perfect, like we are consistently told, that's what people are building here, so let's test that. I think this is a perfect test.

jsup

Says GM 350 block, not sure, either 350 or 383, for the sake of comparison, don't see why it matters.

cv67

Id like to see all the cam specs, they arent listed. Going by the adv duration #s I doubt its going in any kind of FI car. Just a hunch.

jsup

What is the difference what the cam spec is? Smaller runner more flow equals more power. Right? I was told to expect 40-50HP if I went AFR on any motor over any other head. Tony himself told me 40 HP.. . So let's see if that is truth or fiction, shall we? I have the builder ready.

Or are we now conceding that may not be the choice and it's about the combination? Which is it?

Do I sense some back peddling?

1989TransAm

"Says GM 350 block, not sure, either 350 or 383, for the sake of comparison, don't see why it matters."

Gee jsup you have such a delightful personality. I was curious about the dyno runs you linked to and the cubic inch of the motor used.

cv67

The Challenge seemed to me to try and mimic combos guys are putting together in our C4s. Im down for seeing anything getting compared personally streetable or not.

0Tony Mamo @ AFR

And I thought we had a JSUP-less forum for awhile there

So you want to send a set of AFR heads to a Brodix dealer engine builder in Brodix's home town for a fair AFR test??

Hmmmmmm.....whats wrong with that picture

I would rather use YOUR car and have you go to a nuetral dyno facilty

Lets go JSUP.....time to put up or shut up.

Now who's up for that????



(That seems about the only way anyone would ever see some dyno numbers on your car....kill two birds with one stone!)

-Tony

PS....And I clicked on here thinking I was going to breeze thru....LOL

abc 123

I would like to just see the "shut up" . Besides, his car makes toooooooooo much power. It even broke the trans.

lltrevino

Vette Threat

Street ports? Is anyone hear using the street ports? LOL Yeah you would say that. That's like racing a base C6 against a base Viper, who cares we want to see what the ZR1 does vs the SRT10.

Either way sure it's a fair test, as long as you use the numbers he got when the valves FLOATED.

How many times have we said the AFR head is hard to beat due to the ports AND the parts. This guy had to MODIFY the Broadix head with a spring that has 200lbs at the seat? On a hydraulic cam? Wow have fun with that.

Broadix out of the box vs AFRs out of the box, no changing parts or mods allowed.

Zix

You know, if you were actually serious about this, rather than just trying to get a rise out of people (yet again) you would have taken this to a PM or e-mail to Tony. I think you enjoy the train-wrecks you put in motion.

Vette Threat

What are you talking about? He's just taking the typical Corvette owner that uses the street port AFR, 300 degrees of duration and a carb and seeing what works best.

Corvette Chris

x3.

jsup

No, an engine builder. What difference does that make?
Hey, I'm not trying to pass off marketing material as technical and sales as technical support.
]

PS tony, my dyno numbers have nothing to do with this. As usual you skate the subject.

On YOUR TERMS right. I put up, I found a motor, you're scared, quite obvious that if you aren't the one rigging the results, you don't want to play....got it.

Don't change the subject, you told me I would see 40 hp on my build, I found a mule. YOU put up or shut up. Your position is that hight flow and smaller port will always result in more power, well, here you go, you got, I set it all up, what are you afraid of. This is the cheapest head Beodix makes, you should smoke them. There you go again, when the argument isn't framed in your liking you change the argument.

I'll take this as you care not to participate, what are you afraid of?

I think I made my point. When rubber hits the road it seems to run in the other direction.


You question the legitimacy of this? When your suggestion was to SELL a set of heads, have a choice of cars that YOU PICK, change the cam, and what, at the end of the day you sold a set of heads. None of the "infrormation" you post is fair and balanced. Hell, the last thread you started took a pair of hacked up heads with a **** poor port job against top of the line cnc'd heads, wtf did that prove? NOTHING.

I am not going to violate my car for your marketing, you make the claims, you prove it. I am not asking people to give me $2000, you are and YOU have to prove it.

Again, I'll take this as a no, my point was made, AFR will NOT make more power in this motor, the cheapest heads brodix makes.

I guess we're done with this under the curve on the table bull****.

I think I made my point. Tony will not put up becuase the result is not predetermined. Thank you for playing.

jsup

Hey, the argument is that smaller ports with more flow will make more power. Period.

Now what? You're arguing the combo isn't right to get the result you want? Kinda throws all your arguments out the window doesn't it?

Again, my point was made, thank you.

jsup

You're kidding right? The challenge was public. This should be public.

I am not making this a train wreck, as usual. Those who don't want to hear it are.

I found the motor, we have the specs, AFRs with smaller ports and more flow will always make more power, let's prove it. What's wrong with that?

PM tony so he can say no in private and the world will never know, never.

todd_vette

I have seen claims on both sides and would really like to see the results of this challenge.
I wish both of you would ease up on the attacks so this thread will stay unlocked. Hopefully the moderators will see that this is something VERY worth keeping open and try to ignore minor infringements here.
Any chance of getting an independent and non-concerned judge in that area to watch to see that every-thing is even? Truthfully i would not trust either of your comments after all the bickering...Sorry you guys brought that miss-trust on by your heated words.
But i think a lot of people on this forum would benefit from seeing REAL dyno numbers and not just speculations and guesses. I know little beyond what i see on the final numbers... That comes from my Chemistry back-ground and the scientific principal. I would love to see those ethics used...Multipal cams on each head might show other things as well??? But cost is always a limiting factor in experimenting.