The Dingo

I know, here we go again with another SR thread. :)

As you can see in my sig, I have a lightly modified L98 in my 90.

After installing just the ACCEL Super Ram base I didn't feel any SOTP improvement but I wasn't expecting too much after seeing that despite the change in port shape and size in my new intake base, the runners were still the biggest restriction with their puny diameter.

At present I am running one main cat with an OEM exhaust but would like to go to a 2.5 inch true dual exhaust from the OEM exhaust manifolds with twin high flow cats soon.

I am considering buying the Super Ram intake box to compliment the base currently on my car in the near future but am wondering how much (if any) difference this will make if I don't touch the heads and cam - I'd prefer to leave those for when I build a whole new motor. My car has about 112,xxx miles on it at present so I don't see the point on doing much more than external "airflow" bolt-ons until I am ready to commit to doing a whole new motor. If I do the Super Ram and Exhaust I will probably leave my motor alone until $ allow for a new motor or something goes bang. I am figuring the exhaust and a SR will flow enough for a healthy stroker (planned exhaust may be a little big for my current setup?) so I could use them on my next motor if/when I build it.

Any opinions on whether these mods may be of reasonable benefit? If they are of benefit, any idea what sort of hp/tq increase or ET reduction I may see? (FWIW, at the moment my best time is 13.7@100mph with a 1.9second sixty foot time on street tires with a 3.33 rear end ratio - that time being done before my replacing the OEM lower intake base with the ACCEL SR intake base).

As usual, any constructive feedback or comments are appreciated. :)

AS84

I sure wouldn't justify buying a SR plenum and runner kit without complimenting it with a cam and some head work. I don't think you'll get much out of it at all. I would probably put that money towards a stroker kit :yesnod:

Aggravated4life

I dont know much about the SR except that its the choice of many Vette/Camaro owners with TPI and stroker engines.
Since one of your goals is maybe build your motor later,and you already have the intake,why not go ahead and get the parts you need anyways.
That way youll have them and be ready for any other mods later.

I dont know how it performs and feels on a stock engine, and would love to have someone be a test mule for us in a sense.

The prices of the SR has been going up over the last few years.If you plan to make it a mod in the future,get them before they get too expensive.They used to be around 500 for the runner and lid kit and now theyre up over 700 I hear...maybe more.
Im beginning to wonder if they will stop making them soon as well.Never know..I sure hope not.
:)

GlennS87

I would suggest you do a set of 1.6 rr's since you're not doing the cam right now. If you use the comp cams pro magnums, they are re-buildable, so you could use them in the heads you chose for your stroker down the road.

LPDesRoche

My 90 went from 13.8 @ 99 to 13.15 @ 107 with just the addition of the Superram and 58mm TB. No other mods were done at the time of the change. It was a great improvement. Not to mention it moved my powerband up considerably. And that was with 130,xxx miles on the motor.

AS84

LPDesRoche-
You were pulling 107 mph trap speeds with just the super ram and a TB? I pull 107 trap speeds and I have the cam and good flowing heads to accomodate them on a much lower mileaged motor. I still say a super ram on a STOCK L98 is a very expensive way to add a little power.

Dr. Evil

I'd love to see the results from that mod. If you look at my mods in my sig we're pretty close in terms of mods but the exhaust on my car helped alot. My trap speed is pretty good for the mods I have so far. I expect a SR to put me in the 107-108 trap speed range and if I could get the car to 60 foot good I would expect low, low 13s and high 12s. When I put the base on mine I picked up about 16 rwhp but I did smooth out mine and port matched it. You wont 'feel' a 15 hp increase. The butt dyno isnt that sensitive. :rolleyes:
I'd say go for it. I plan to.

LPDesRoche

Both of the time I listed were with the following mods: Borla cat back and K&N filter. That was it. Trap speeds went from 99-100 to 107 consistently. Only change with the Superram was the timing was raised to 12deg. Car ran great. Next mod was the 383 that I build and subsequently the trap speeds went to 118-120. But I was very pleased with just the super ram alone. It was great. It would give my friends LS1's a good run for the money.

AS84

wow, you gave me a little more hope.....maybe with a little more tuning I can squeeze more out of it. Sounds like you had a fast car.I smoked my clutch on a burnout and i decided to call it quits with consecutive 107 mph passes.

The Dingo

Thanks for the advice :).

At this stage I'd be happy with picking up a one or two tenths and a bit more MPH although I'd be extremely happy if I could get low thirteens and around 107 or 108MPH without pulling the heads or playing with the cam... As long as I at least make a small gain for now with the SR upper I'll be happy - I'm remembering that the SR will really come into its own when I build a motor later :D.

I don't mind being a guinea pig, I did the base intake as an experiment although I thought I'd feel it if I picked up the 15-20hp that you supposedly stand to make with the base alone on a stock motor - I really should have dynoed it beforehand...:rolleyes:. I learnt a little from that experiment just about the differences in the bases - I have some pics and dimensions on the base intake swap that I'll post here but I'd like to put my car back together before I post a writeup on it :).

I'll most likely have the cash to get one in late Jan/early Feb, if I go ahead and get one I'll post my results here (I think it's time to find a good dyno to start documenting these things properly).

:cheers:

Vic'89

Red90sixspeed

With 107 mph trap speeds, you could go 12.70's easy.
It will require a solid hook to get that ET.

Vic

corvette1990

Iwould agree on the tuning part of this equation. I have been trying to tune mine, by changing fuel pressure. Next step is to get Drag radials for the spare rims I bought. I am also considering getting another chip tuner to dyno the car in person, rather than the over phone version I got. I am supposed to have 6 degrees of timing with my motor and chip, suprised to see the 12 degrees mentioned above. Hmm. I wonder??

LPDesRoche

When I was running the 107 traps, I was only getting a 2.0 60ft time. So there was more to be had as far as ET goes. But i was on a stock clutch with 130,xxx miles. I hated to push it by slipping the clutch for better launches. My goal was to get it to last until I did the 383 swap. It worked.... :D

Beach Bum

I ran my old 180,000 mile 350 with Accel long tube runners, ported plenum, Accel base, 74211 cam and Dart 2 heads to 12.42 @ 109 mph.... I then put on the Superram plenum and runners and ran 12.20 @ 111 with a 12.12 best..... but even with the 74211 cam I still was undercammed for the Superram.... it was hitting the wall at 5400-5500 rpm.... point being, you won't be able to take advantage of the Superram's capability with the stock heads and especially the stock cam that was designed by GM to make power to roughly 4500 rpm and no more. The SR is superior to the Long tubes starting at about 3500-4000 rpm or so, thus you'll pick up a little et in my opinion and probably several mph, but until you cam it up ... probably not a lot of et gain. Should be fun to see your results.

good luck
Beach

Dr. Evil

Good insight Beach. You should know. You're the resident forum expert ;) on these superams. One question though Beach. I shift now at 5000rpm for best et and mph (see sig) where as it used to be 4700/4800 before mods. I know the SR alone wont move the power up the rpm range to 5500 or 5800 because of the (stock) heads/cam issue but even if the SR allows you to stay in each gear say, 200 more rpm that seems as though it would help et quite a bit. I noticed at the cruise in the it wasnt at the end of the track or really even the middle but in the first 3 or 4 hundred feet that the C5 guys got me. Once I hit 3rd or 4th gear they never pulled me any, except for the really, really fast guys. It could have been that I had some tire spin in 2nd gear but not 4 or 5 tenths worth. I trapped the same as alot of guys, 60 footed similar but got a higher et. What I'm getting at is this, if I were able to hold each gear a bit longer my average rwtrq across the whole 1/4 would be higher and et lower right? OK, I've typed enough, my head hurts now. I guess I just ned to do this as soon as $$$ allows and dyno.

RocketSled

I COULD tell you...I've got a nearly stock 120,000 mile L98 with accel base and SR runners and box sittin in the garage! Only I can't get it to idle well, and the car is currently uninsured. (I'm awaiting the Real Motor, got the intake last November and thought: Why don't I get a little experience with the Superram!)

So: I've been told it's good for about 40 hp, and am THAT ->||<- close to being able to find out, but my hands are tied. :(

BTW, slotting the screws is a GOLDEN Tip. I'd add that you really must ensure ALL of the gaskets are sealed and all the bolts are torqued. NOTHING runs worse than a superram'd motor with a bad vacuum leak.

Beach Bum

Actually I think we gotta give the Title of Superram expert to forum member Ralph... he's disassemblied and assemblied his I think a WORLD record 6 times now.... I swear he could do it in between rounds with his eyes closed nowadays. :lol:

Yes, more usable rpm is a good thing if the torque down low is not hurt and up top it stays up longer, and considering the long tube runners are a very serious restriction, I would think the SR would allow you at least another 200 hundred usuable rpm even with the stock cam and heads.... in reality it would probably give you another 400-500 rpm in this situation, however with a well matched cam and a little head work it will add roughly a 1000 rpm of true usable rpm.

As a couple of comparitive examples. I did not dyno with the stock runners, but based upon what everybody else seems to dyno at, I would guess I would have dynoed right around 4400 rpm give or take a few hundred. With the Accel base, Accel long tubes, ported plenum, 74211 cam and Dart heads my HP peak was at 4800 rpm. Now with the SR and a 383 my peak hp occurs at 5600 rpm. In otherwords vs stock the SR has provided another 1200 or so usuable rpm... against a built motor with long tube runners another 800 or so usuable rpm. The nice thing about this is that the SR not only provides more HP than a long tube set-up, but also more torque.... some think the long tube runners provide the most torque, and it does at 3000 rpm.... but that peak is lower than the SR's peak which occurs somewhere around 3700-4200 rpm.

However, even the Superram runs out of juice.... and even with a well ported SR, I don't think you'll ever get hp peak up above 6000 rpm, which is for the most part necessary if you're in search of 10 second timeslips naturally aspirated as I am.... thus if you're going to be happy with a 11 second 6000 rpm motor forever, the Superram is perfect.... if you want 10 second timeslips.... the MR or carb manifold converted to efi is the ticket.

Regarding your scenario.... I really don't know exactly how much its going to help you, I've heard of people putting the SR on a stock motor... some have reported very little et gain, others have reported 1/2 second or more.... my guess is the answer is somewhere between the two. But for the life of me I wouldn't put a SR on a stock motor..... even if you're on a tight budget, the good cam is another $ 200-$325....and while the intake is off, pull off your heads and even if you can't afford to have them professionally ported, have at least have a 3 angle valve job done which isn't too much money.... with those 2 extra modifications all of the sudden the whole project would be adding a real 50-75 hp across the power band..... if you could afford good head work at the same time, power should be up around 100 hp or so.

In any regards, good luck and let us know what you decide.

cheers,
Beach Bum

7xchampcar3

How did Ralph get his SuperRam to survive 6 installs? Mine has to be one of the poorest quality castings i've ever seen. Do most SR owners frequently have to heli-coil and re-tap holes? Maybe i'm just a brute:( Does Ralph have a website? I've allways heard about his car but i've never seen what he's got in his engine. All I know is "stock bottom end, mid 11's" :cool:

Beach Bum

I'm not sure how Ralph has survived them.... I'd be dead after a bunch of those. I'm not positive, but I think on occasion he has had to re-thread a few.... but not sure.

No he doesn't have a webpage, but if you'd like to know a little bit more about his set-up... go to my webpage in the signature and then into the "proven set-ups" section... the basics of his set-up are listed their.

cheers,
Beach



[Modified by Beach Bum, 7:21 PM 1/12/2002]

7xchampcar3

:cool: Thanks