Thanks, Jon, for putting them all together. I like seeing a product in action before buying and this is proof in the pudding. Ordered my Bosch Design III's today.
I just figured it out. If you can't afford a hot cam, replace your injectors with some of Jon's old Multec's and feel 'er lope!
we use a fluid developed by ASNU just for this use. The specific gravity is the same as gasoline, so its very accurate.
The specific gravity of gasoline can vary greatly depending on the refinery where it is produced, the brand name it is being sold under, the blend (regular, mid-grade, premium), the season of the year and the geographic area it is being distributed. Just out of curiosity, which gasoline is the Asnu fluid the same as?
The specific gravity of gasoline can vary greatly depending on the refinery where it is produced, the brand name it is being sold under, the blend (regular, mid-grade, premium), the season of the year and the geographic area it is being distributed. Just out of curiosity, which gasoline is the Asnu fluid the same as?
B. Hartgrove
don't know. but when we flow match, all of the 8 injectors are being flowed with the same fluid. We change it daily and keep it at 70-75 degrees so we can get good results +-.Most shops use heptane, All I know is if I used real gasoline to test these I would not be here. I would be in a burn unit at Emory Hospital. If there is a variable with real gasoline then test fluid can have the same variences.
Shame on you, Jon, for not testing every injector under every possible combination of gasoline formulation, barometric pressure, temperature, Moon phase, altitude, and mood. Did you slay a goat and consult the arguaries before you walked three times Sun-wise around your flow bench? Didn't think so
Seriously though:
Keep up the great work, Jon!
Should I replace the FIs in my wife's '92 with your Bosch D3s for improved spray pattern?
I've wanted two sets of your injectors since I saw your first video. Want != need though... I just want them... But if you can kinda sorta tell me they will spray better then my rational mind can be trumped by the kid in the toy store inside me.
don't know. but when we flow match, all of the 8 injectors are being flowed with the same fluid. We change it daily and keep it at 70-75 degrees so we can get good results +-.Most shops use heptane, All I know is if I used real gasoline to test these I would not be here. I would be in a burn unit at Emory Hospital. If there is a variable with real gasoline then test fluid can have the same variences.
Ok, given that, what then is the specific gravity of the Asnu fluid you are using for testing?
According to the Robert Bosch website, Bosch injector flow rates are defined in N-Heptane which is 0.685.
Ok, given that, what then is the specific gravity of the Asnu fluid you are using for testing?
According to the Robert Bosch website, Bosch injector flow rates are defined in N-Heptane which is 0.685.
B. Hartgrove
Here is a link to a discussion of injector cleaning and testing:
None of the OPs say anything about specific gravity of the fluids used. They do mention TEMPERATURE, PRESSURE AND RPM to determine the condition of a unit. As far as what fluid is used, you can find the whole gamut of fluids on the market that are being used. Perhaps the viscosity would be the determining factor rather than specific gravity.
I would think each machine manufacturer, company or individual, of test benches would determine what test fluid they prefer. And almost everyone disagrees with each other as do the OPs on this forum or any other.
I would think no matter what fluid is used, if you keep those (T,P and RPM) parameters constant (as can be) then your tests will be valid as far as flow on a group of units. You would not have to put a flow number on it, the test tubes will tell if they are equal regardless of fluid used.
Measuring the coil ohms keeping in mind the above paragraph will tell you if the unit is within specs of a new (or control) unit designed for a particular application.
Therefore a reconditioned unit should be as good as a new unit when properly cleaned, rebuilt and tested.
QUESTION: What do manufacturers use when building new units, and how are they tested? They probably are not tested for matched sets as remanufacturers offer. Perhaps that is why Jon and others are so successful giving us better numbers/performance on our toys.
Last edited by Eddie & the Cruisers; 08-13-2008 at 02:01 AM.
Ok, given that, what then is the specific gravity of the Asnu fluid you are using for testing?
According to the Robert Bosch website, Bosch injector flow rates are defined in N-Heptane which is 0.685.
B. Hartgrove
here's an article from vette mag that might be of interest
After watching your movies and talking to you, I installed the Design III injectors.
I am comparing newly refurbished original injectors by Cruisin Performance with FIC Bosch Design III injectors on my 250,000 mile 1987 stock auto 2.59:1 Vet. I was getting 24.7 mpg on a round trip of 84.6 miles to and from work. I am now getting 26.78 mpg. I also have very clean start up in cold and hot soak conditions. The idle quality is much better (smoother) and rock steady in gear at 600 rpm. Not to bad. My new Cadillac CTS doesn't do that well with gas mileage.
Maybe this is nitpicking, but your one video is labeled "85-88 STOCK BOSCH COMPARED TO THE DESIGN III BOSCH"
I'm curious about this, the stock '85 injectors (24 lbs) are a little different from the stock '86 to '88 injectors (22 lbs). Does this matter in your tests?
Maybe this is nitpicking, but your one video is labeled "85-88 STOCK BOSCH COMPARED TO THE DESIGN III BOSCH"
I'm curious about this, the stock '85 injectors (24 lbs) are a little different from the stock '86 to '88 injectors (22 lbs). Does this matter in your tests?
not really.. the purpose was to show spray pattern difference from the old syle to the newer style. All the early Bosch were the same except for flow rates.
In early 2003, my 89 began to run like crap. I had owned the car for about two years and was constantly repairing many items on the car. I had been adding Chevron Textron injector cleaner to the fuel system in an effort to "fix" a rough idle problem that I could not find the cause. In searching for the rough idle problem, I found shorted Multec injectors in my engine.
The next problem I had was what type of injectors to put in my car. I found a set of Lucas 22 pounders from a 88 model and put them in the engine. The Lucas injectors (pencil beam spray pattern) greatly improved the engine performance.
This spring, I saw the FIC video created by Jon. I noted the spray pattern on the Bosch III injectors vs the Lucas spray pattern. I decided to order a set of injectors from Jon.
Here is a photo of the FIC injectors in my 89:
I installed the FIC injectors this spring and ran a scan on the ECM to assure my BLM values were in the desirable range. I had not driven the car on the highway until a few weeks ago.
The performance is greatly improved and the idle is improved. I stopped at a red light and proceeded to to drive as the light turned green. As the car got up to about 15 MPH, I floored the pedal, the engine came to life and the car jumped forward (trannie in OD). At the change of first gear in the auto trannie, the rear wheels began to spin and the arse end moved on me.
The car would not do this with the original Multecs or the Lucas injectors. I highly recommend the FIC Bosch III injectors. Jon also provides excellent service
I called Jon from WV on a Monday am and sent the two injectors FEDEX by noon that day. He received the injectors Wednesday afternoon and called me that evening saying they were back on their way to me. I got them in perfect working order Friday afternoon. I appreciate service like this and had to tell everyone I highly recommend Jon and Fuel Injection Connection. Honest and reliable service are two qualities that are priceless.
Thanks Jon.....
Jon has been awesome to deal with. He is always available on his cell so give him a call! He will talk you through whatever injector issues you might be having. I am a very happy customer!
injector videos and questions
