A couple of recent dyno results....
07-22-2008, 01:45 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
A couple of recent dyno results....
I've been looking around the internet for good running big cube sbc motors utilizing a hyd roller cam and have recently found a couple I thought I would share.
This first is a 418 sbc utilizing a 20 over 4.145" bore with a 3.875" stroke. Super victor manifold, 10.5-1 cr, AFR 210 eliminators with some short turn work done and a Hyd roller cam with 236/248 @ .050", and .610 lift on a 110lsa. This motor is going into a late 60's chevelle.
rpm hp torque
3700 328 466
3800 337 465
3900 347 467
4000 366 480
4100 391 501
4200 413 517
4300 435 531
4400 454 542
4500 471 549
4600 485 554
4700 496 555
4800 505 554
4900 514 551
5000 521 548
5100 530 546
5200 538 543
5300 544 539
5400 549 534
5500 553 528
5600 556 521
5700 557 513
5800 560 507
This motor was still climbing when they shut it off.... I personally think it would have flat lined at around 6200 rpm and 580 HP, but hard to say for sure. Regardless, very stout motor !!
The 2nd set-up is a 414 sbc, based upon a 4.125 bore x 3.875 stroke. This is a 11.3-1 cr motor, also using the AFR 210 eliminator cylinder heads, victor jr intake, and a hyd roller 234/246 @ .050" with .565 lift. This motor is going in a C3 Corvette with a tremac T60. Running E85.
It doesn't show it here, but the owner of the motor said this motor made 500 ftlbs down as low as 3000 rpm..... very impressive motor, over 600 HP, no maintenance, drive it anywhere set-up..... if you're every told you cannot make big HP with a hyd cam, they would be wrong.....
These are both carbed applications, but, that doesn't matter, with a converted SP efi or a TPIS miniram you should make similiar numbers.... and maybe a Holley Stealth Ram could possible do it to, but that does remain to be seen I guess.
I can't help but notice, that a lot of engines are really coming out with very impressive numbers with the new AFR Eliminator cylinder heads on them..... that extra flow those cylinder heads get seem to really be making a big difference. I will also say that a lot of the hardcore engine builders will tell you to go with the AFR 227 cylinder heads on a big bore motor with a 3.875" or 4.00" stroke, but it looks like the 210's are working great in these two applications.... albeit, they are lower rpm hyd motors.
Both of these motors in a C4, with a fairly tight 3200 rpm converter and 3300 lb raceweight would put you in the high 10's easily.... loosen the converter and easy mid 10's. @ 125-129 mph is my guess...or thereabouts anyway.
Just thought I would share what I found..... from casual reading here I noticed a few of you are considering big cube motors, and thought you might find this interesting. Its actually hard to find information on proven big cube sbc with hyd roller cams ..... most set-ups are utilizing a solid roller cam and spinning the motor up to and beyond 7000 rpm, which is great, but not what I was looking for.
This first is a 418 sbc utilizing a 20 over 4.145" bore with a 3.875" stroke. Super victor manifold, 10.5-1 cr, AFR 210 eliminators with some short turn work done and a Hyd roller cam with 236/248 @ .050", and .610 lift on a 110lsa. This motor is going into a late 60's chevelle.
rpm hp torque
3700 328 466
3800 337 465
3900 347 467
4000 366 480
4100 391 501
4200 413 517
4300 435 531
4400 454 542
4500 471 549
4600 485 554
4700 496 555
4800 505 554
4900 514 551
5000 521 548
5100 530 546
5200 538 543
5300 544 539
5400 549 534
5500 553 528
5600 556 521
5700 557 513
5800 560 507
This motor was still climbing when they shut it off.... I personally think it would have flat lined at around 6200 rpm and 580 HP, but hard to say for sure. Regardless, very stout motor !!
The 2nd set-up is a 414 sbc, based upon a 4.125 bore x 3.875 stroke. This is a 11.3-1 cr motor, also using the AFR 210 eliminator cylinder heads, victor jr intake, and a hyd roller 234/246 @ .050" with .565 lift. This motor is going in a C3 Corvette with a tremac T60. Running E85.
It doesn't show it here, but the owner of the motor said this motor made 500 ftlbs down as low as 3000 rpm..... very impressive motor, over 600 HP, no maintenance, drive it anywhere set-up..... if you're every told you cannot make big HP with a hyd cam, they would be wrong.....
These are both carbed applications, but, that doesn't matter, with a converted SP efi or a TPIS miniram you should make similiar numbers.... and maybe a Holley Stealth Ram could possible do it to, but that does remain to be seen I guess.
I can't help but notice, that a lot of engines are really coming out with very impressive numbers with the new AFR Eliminator cylinder heads on them..... that extra flow those cylinder heads get seem to really be making a big difference. I will also say that a lot of the hardcore engine builders will tell you to go with the AFR 227 cylinder heads on a big bore motor with a 3.875" or 4.00" stroke, but it looks like the 210's are working great in these two applications.... albeit, they are lower rpm hyd motors.
Both of these motors in a C4, with a fairly tight 3200 rpm converter and 3300 lb raceweight would put you in the high 10's easily.... loosen the converter and easy mid 10's. @ 125-129 mph is my guess...or thereabouts anyway.
Just thought I would share what I found..... from casual reading here I noticed a few of you are considering big cube motors, and thought you might find this interesting. Its actually hard to find information on proven big cube sbc with hyd roller cams ..... most set-ups are utilizing a solid roller cam and spinning the motor up to and beyond 7000 rpm, which is great, but not what I was looking for.
07-23-2008, 10:24 AM
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St. Jude Donor '05
Dont need a big cam like the old days now that theres great heads out there.
07-23-2008, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jdraughn
Would one bolt right in? How much would you be looking at cost wise if you did all the labor yourself?
RACE ON!!!
07-23-2008, 11:32 AM
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It sounds to me like these are maybe 400ci that have been stroked or bored to about 410ci? What vehicle did these engines orginally come from? I think I would prefer to find a cheap used one at a wrecking yard or something and then build it up.
Seeing as how you are in Ogden, can you PM me with how much you would want for that engine?
07-23-2008, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jdraughn
Im not as familar with chevy engines. I have always wanted a corvette and finally got one though, so now im starting to learn about them. Can someone educate me on what these engines are? What vehicle did these engines orginally come from?
Originally Posted by jdraughn
I think I would prefer to find a cheap used one at a wrecking yard or something and then build it up.
RACE ON!!!
07-23-2008, 12:49 PM
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So educate me! Was it a crate engine?
07-23-2008, 02:36 PM
#9
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Im not as familar with chevy engines. I have always wanted a corvette and finally got one though, so now im starting to learn about them. Can someone educate me on what these engines are?
It sounds to me like these are maybe 400ci that have been stroked or bored to about 410ci? What vehicle did these engines orginally come from? I think I would prefer to find a cheap used one at a wrecking yard or something and then build it up.
Seeing as how you are in Ogden, can you PM me with how much you would want for that engine?
It sounds to me like these are maybe 400ci that have been stroked or bored to about 410ci? What vehicle did these engines orginally come from? I think I would prefer to find a cheap used one at a wrecking yard or something and then build it up.
Seeing as how you are in Ogden, can you PM me with how much you would want for that engine?
You can find an old block and make it work.... most stay with the standard 3.750" stroke(406ci) when doing this, some will even stroke it beyond that..... mixed results doing this, some it works out great for, others not.... core shift and small cracks between the cylinders are fairly common for those old blocks, so you gotta be careful.
My recommendation, if you're going to build a big cube motor, go ahead with the aftermarket block, you can get them nowadays for around 2k ready to go..... you can find an old block and after thorough testing of the block and a basic rebuild, you're still going to end up spending $ 1200 or more typically..... might as well have peace of mind and spend a few extra bucks for an aftermarket block thats gonna last not just for your current set-up, but has enough on it for another rebuild or two after that.... .
As far as cost to build a big cube motor..... thats a big variable and is dependant on the quality of parts you put in it, but a good sound short block with quality well known cylinder heads and an aftermarket efi intake system, you're looking at $ 8-10k..... give or take a little. (4k short block + 1k valvetrain + 2k cylinder heads + 1k intake system + extras such as headers, balancer, electric water pump, etc.......)
Good luck with whatever direction you chose to go !
Last edited by Beach Bum; 07-23-2008 at 02:47 PM.
07-23-2008, 02:43 PM
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Safety Car
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07-23-2008, 08:16 PM
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Thanks, thats exactly the answer I was looking for!
Yes, they are basically 400 ci motors that are bored and stroked, however, due to the difficulties of putting trust into a lot of the old 400 blocks, most nowadays are buying an aftermarket block such as I have with a Dart Little M block. Most will bore them from the standard 4.125" to 4.155" bore and then either put in a 3.875" stroke crank (420ci) or a 4.00" stroke crank (434ci)...... there are a multitude of possibilities with bore and stroke, but the above two are probably the most common for those wanting more than the standard 3.750" 400 crank.
You can find an old block and make it work.... most stay with the standard 3.750" stroke(406ci) when doing this, some will even stroke it beyond that..... mixed results doing this, some it works out great for, others not.... core shift and small cracks between the cylinders are fairly common for those old blocks, so you gotta be careful.
My recommendation, if you're going to build a big cube motor, go ahead with the aftermarket block, you can get them nowadays for around 2k ready to go..... you can find an old block and after thorough testing of the block and a basic rebuild, you're still going to end up spending $ 1200 or more typically..... might as well have peace of mind and spend a few extra bucks for an aftermarket block thats gonna last not just for your current set-up, but has enough on it for another rebuild or two after that.... .
As far as cost to build a big cube motor..... thats a big variable and is dependant on the quality of parts you put in it, but a good sound short block with quality well known cylinder heads and an aftermarket efi intake system, you're looking at $ 8-10k..... give or take a little. (4k short block + 1k valvetrain + 2k cylinder heads + 1k intake system + extras such as headers, balancer, electric water pump, etc.......)
Good luck with whatever direction you chose to go !
You can find an old block and make it work.... most stay with the standard 3.750" stroke(406ci) when doing this, some will even stroke it beyond that..... mixed results doing this, some it works out great for, others not.... core shift and small cracks between the cylinders are fairly common for those old blocks, so you gotta be careful.
My recommendation, if you're going to build a big cube motor, go ahead with the aftermarket block, you can get them nowadays for around 2k ready to go..... you can find an old block and after thorough testing of the block and a basic rebuild, you're still going to end up spending $ 1200 or more typically..... might as well have peace of mind and spend a few extra bucks for an aftermarket block thats gonna last not just for your current set-up, but has enough on it for another rebuild or two after that.... .
As far as cost to build a big cube motor..... thats a big variable and is dependant on the quality of parts you put in it, but a good sound short block with quality well known cylinder heads and an aftermarket efi intake system, you're looking at $ 8-10k..... give or take a little. (4k short block + 1k valvetrain + 2k cylinder heads + 1k intake system + extras such as headers, balancer, electric water pump, etc.......)
Good luck with whatever direction you chose to go !
07-23-2008, 08:41 PM
#12
Dart has a new block out called the SHP or Special High Performance. List price is around $1500 but I have seen them advertised for under $1300. They come with splayed for bolt main caps, setup for the factory roller cam, and either a 4" bore or a 4.125" bore.
They are also factory cleared for 3.75" stroke using steel rods. They can be bored out to 4.165" with a .235" wall left. They have a 2 piece rear main seal. I think we will be seeing a lot of builds using this block.
They are also factory cleared for 3.75" stroke using steel rods. They can be bored out to 4.165" with a .235" wall left. They have a 2 piece rear main seal. I think we will be seeing a lot of builds using this block.
07-23-2008, 10:16 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
very nice! stout numbesr.. i want a 415 stroker or bigger soo bad and i wanted to do a similar setup to the above. 600 hp is NICE! my 383 with 195's is doing well so far. i'll have dyno numbers next week
07-24-2008, 08:16 AM
#15
Good post Beach.
My 421 is getting very close to be finished. I am going with the AFR's Eliminator's as well, but have chosen to go with the smaller 195cc heads for a few different reasons. I will post the results after I get it to the dyno or the track.
I wanted a street car with good driveability, and scary throttle response. We are putting in a very mild cam, but throwing some compression at it, and very good bottom end components(nitrous later). I wont make the #'s that those AFR 215's are making with my smaller heads. But I do know, I will have power everywhere in the curve, and "should" trap in the 120's.
I personally can't wait until the motor is complete. I am glad I decided to go ahead and order that GM Bowtie block.
On a side note, I think those AFR's are the real deal.
My 421 is getting very close to be finished. I am going with the AFR's Eliminator's as well, but have chosen to go with the smaller 195cc heads for a few different reasons. I will post the results after I get it to the dyno or the track.
I wanted a street car with good driveability, and scary throttle response. We are putting in a very mild cam, but throwing some compression at it, and very good bottom end components(nitrous later). I wont make the #'s that those AFR 215's are making with my smaller heads. But I do know, I will have power everywhere in the curve, and "should" trap in the 120's.
I personally can't wait until the motor is complete. I am glad I decided to go ahead and order that GM Bowtie block.
On a side note, I think those AFR's are the real deal.
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 07-24-2008 at 08:20 AM.
07-24-2008, 09:30 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Those are nice numbers ! Beach, who did the builds ? (sounds like R/M stuff).
mine is a 3.875 stroke 4.030 bore, billet h.roller 234/242 @50 and .598/.600(ish) lift w/114 lsa. I have the older 190 comp. port afr's. (I could use more cylinder head)
Dyno numbers (at the crank): 537hp. @ 6200 and 517tq.@ 5800. (at 2500 rpm it was 425 tq.).
mine is a 3.875 stroke 4.030 bore, billet h.roller 234/242 @50 and .598/.600(ish) lift w/114 lsa. I have the older 190 comp. port afr's. (I could use more cylinder head)
Dyno numbers (at the crank): 537hp. @ 6200 and 517tq.@ 5800. (at 2500 rpm it was 425 tq.).
Last edited by mseven; 07-24-2008 at 09:41 AM.
07-24-2008, 10:07 AM
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St. Jude Donor '05
pretty stout there Mick especially with the 190 head!
you can get a Dart Little M for about 15-1600 locally here. Guy may want the machine work on the motor also but its a heck of a deal.
Nice piece.
To the guy that was wondering about GM 400s listen to Beach, looking for a GM 400 block thats good is a waste...I looked at over 8 and 3 that were supposed to be "checked and good"...alll junk. Not worth it.
If your on a budget maybe Golen, shafiroff, etc may have something in a "crate" set up. Nothings as good as a one off cutom build but they can get pricy quick and take time to build.
Take your time, look around, ask and see whats out ther .Stay away from the junk on Ebay
you can get a Dart Little M for about 15-1600 locally here. Guy may want the machine work on the motor also but its a heck of a deal.
Nice piece.
To the guy that was wondering about GM 400s listen to Beach, looking for a GM 400 block thats good is a waste...I looked at over 8 and 3 that were supposed to be "checked and good"...alll junk. Not worth it.
If your on a budget maybe Golen, shafiroff, etc may have something in a "crate" set up. Nothings as good as a one off cutom build but they can get pricy quick and take time to build.
Take your time, look around, ask and see whats out ther .Stay away from the junk on Ebay
07-24-2008, 10:47 AM
#18
pretty stout there Mick especially with the 190 head!
you can get a Dart Little M for about 15-1600 locally here. Guy may want the machine work on the motor also but its a heck of a deal.
Nice piece.
To the guy that was wondering about GM 400s listen to Beach, looking for a GM 400 block thats good is a waste...I looked at over 8 and 3 that were supposed to be "checked and good"...alll junk. Not worth it.
If your on a budget maybe Golen, shafiroff, etc may have something in a "crate" set up. Nothings as good as a one off cutom build but they can get pricy quick and take time to build.
Take your time, look around, ask and see whats out ther .Stay away from the junk on Ebay
you can get a Dart Little M for about 15-1600 locally here. Guy may want the machine work on the motor also but its a heck of a deal.
Nice piece.
To the guy that was wondering about GM 400s listen to Beach, looking for a GM 400 block thats good is a waste...I looked at over 8 and 3 that were supposed to be "checked and good"...alll junk. Not worth it.
If your on a budget maybe Golen, shafiroff, etc may have something in a "crate" set up. Nothings as good as a one off cutom build but they can get pricy quick and take time to build.
Take your time, look around, ask and see whats out ther .Stay away from the junk on Ebay
Don't forget the GM Bowtie block with the 1 piece rear main seal! My engine builder has run a few of these with no issues, and he hits it with a big shot of NOS!
This is the famous 4-bolt Bowtie block, which can be used for many engine combinations. It has a straight nodular iron 4-bolt cap and features siamesed cylinder walls that can be bored up to 4.155”. It is intended for maximum effort racing engines. The deck surfaces are thicker than production blocks, the head bolt holes are blind tapped to improved head gasket sealing, the main bearing bulkheads are 0.900” and the front and rear main bearing bulkheads are reinforced with strengthening ribs. A boss for oil scavenging line is located behind the #8 cylinder and below the bellhousing bosses were also added to the outer water jackets to be drilled between the siamesed cylinders for improved cooling. The cylinders have a nominal thickness of 0.340” at about 2” below the deck surface. The oil dipstick hole is not drilled, and the lifter holes are finish bored to the production diameter of 0.842”. This Bowtie block is designed for 1 piece rear seal crankshafts with 2.450” (350) diameter main journals.
http://www.sdparts.com/product/10185...wTieBlock.aspx
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 07-24-2008 at 10:51 AM.
07-24-2008, 11:56 AM
#19
Drifting
Dart has a new block out called the SHP or Special High Performance. List price is around $1500 but I have seen them advertised for under $1300. They come with splayed for bolt main caps, setup for the factory roller cam, and either a 4" bore or a 4.125" bore.
They are also factory cleared for 3.75" stroke using steel rods. They can be bored out to 4.165" with a .235" wall left. They have a 2 piece rear main seal. I think we will be seeing a lot of builds using this block.
They are also factory cleared for 3.75" stroke using steel rods. They can be bored out to 4.165" with a .235" wall left. They have a 2 piece rear main seal. I think we will be seeing a lot of builds using this block.
07-24-2008, 12:24 PM
#20
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Dart has a new block out called the SHP or Special High Performance. List price is around $1500 but I have seen them advertised for under $1300. They come with splayed for bolt main caps, setup for the factory roller cam, and either a 4" bore or a 4.125" bore.
They are also factory cleared for 3.75" stroke using steel rods. They can be bored out to 4.165" with a .235" wall left. They have a 2 piece rear main seal. I think we will be seeing a lot of builds using this block.
They are also factory cleared for 3.75" stroke using steel rods. They can be bored out to 4.165" with a .235" wall left. They have a 2 piece rear main seal. I think we will be seeing a lot of builds using this block.
Cool Beans !! I haven't seen anything on them yet, but if true, looks like it will virtually wipe out the need to scrounge around junkyards looking for those old 400 blocks..... why would somebody take the chance !