RichS

I just ordered a heavy duty one #118S for 195.95 from http://www.internetracerssupply.com/ click on "products" and scroll down. This is the cheapest I have seen it.

Chris@SD

That is not the Heavy duty one. That is the regular one. Anyone who wants one, I will match that price!
Thanks,

BrianCunningham

Chris is right, you want the HD one, I talked to the company.

mackeyred96

I don't want to burst anyones bubble but I'm taking mine off!!!!!!!
2 times last week it stopped working and saturday I never made it to the track and had to get flatbedded home. I getting to old to mess with stuff like that and I only live 20 miles from E-town :sad:
I'll try it again when I have more patients.

BrianCunningham

did the motor die? or was it something else?

mackeyred96

I've got the HD unit and the motor just stopped.

Wed. It stopped going to the track, i git it home and I just loosen up the motor and it started running again. Went to the track and went again friday and it was fine. Saturday I left my house drove about 10 miles it was fine. I stopped at a 7-11 came out drove about 2 miles and the water temp was at 240. I checked and the water pump motor and it was not running.
After leaving my 2 times in one week I'll go back to what I know works atleast for now.


[Modified by mackeyred96, 6:04 PM 10/29/2001]

ezmoney92

This is why I opted for the good old fashioned stock LT1 pump. :) :seeya

RichS

Hmmm anyone else have any problems with it? I found out that was the standard unit not the HD one.

mackeyred96

The stock old fashioned unit does take HP to run. So if you picked up 1 RWHP to a racer that it's worth it. I will, run mine again but just not now.

Chris@SD

Mackey,
Electric motors should die when the they die. They should not die and come back to lift and die and come back, etc....
Are you sure you did not have either a relay problem or a wiring problem(ie. a short)???

The regular duty pump will cool a head and cam car in Houton heat and humidity. I really say that the HD is just not necessary. I also do not know many people running this pump and I know of countless people running the standard pump. I feel safer with the regular pump and that is what I will continue to recommend. :)
Good Luck,

PeteL

Electric pump takes horse power to run as well, just loads the alternator more - which loads the pulley more - which takes more HP. Nothing is for free. Folks speak of average load vs. variable load and so forth. BS. Electric pumps take horse power (more to do the same job). Average load or not, the difference is diminutive IMO.

Although, it seems that the pump could be very reliable (probably never as much as a belt driven). Upside of the electric is not HP (in my really humble electrical engineer opinion), but ability to run when engine is turned off - for cooling. This is the advantage I see, and I'll bet that they will make good. Probably just a stupid electrical problem (bad connection, infant mortality on the unit, something like that).

Wonder how they ground it? Could ground be messed up?

Just my position on this.

Pete

Chris@SD

Pete, there is no debate that the Electric water pump will free up 7-10 RWHP. It has been seen too many times to be disputed. I agree nothing is free, but there are more efficient ways to do things. :)

The advantages to this pump are many:
1. Less chance of puking onto your optispark
2. Ability to scrap a $260 ho hum timing chain for a Cloyes Double roller for ~$80.
3. Better cooling at idle.
4. Better cooling at all RPM.
5. Ability to run the water pump when the car is off.
6. Many more I am just to tired to think of. :)

PeteL

:bs

VMAX451

For a given amount of flow, a mechanical water pump should cost you less h.p. for the reason PeteL states. I assume the gains you see on the dyno are for peak h.p. Since an electric water pump spins at a constant speed (I assume), it likely pumps less than the mechanical stock pump when the stock unit is spinning at 5500+ rpms. So it makes sense that you may see an h.p. gain under drag racing conditions.

Chris@SD

Gee, thanks for giving such an informative explination of this?!?! This post was truly enlightening and informative. Thanks for sharing... :rolleyes:

I tell you what. I will send you a Meziere Electirc water pump for free!!! All you have to do is dyno before and after. If you do not pick up RWHP you can keep it for free(all dyno conditions must be equal)! If you pick up RWHP you can give me $200, which will include shipping.

You say BS, I say I will prove it or give up $200.... :D

Now, if you would like to enlighten us a little bit more than yelling BS without an explination, I am more than happy to hear it.

95vettski

No problems with my standard electric pump for me. Have it wired with a relay and also a manual switch to come on anytime, great for cooling down at the track!

arnold

Gotta agree unquestionably with Chris. The question of the extra amount of load on
the alternater was addressed in an other forum. It amounted to chump change.
Chris, did you say you would match that price of $196 shipped for a HD 118?

PeteL

I mean no harm, and no disrespect. I will try and explain some.

IF (I fully understand this part), IF the electric pump, performs the same function of moving the same amount of water as the belt driven pump; then the electric pump MUST take more horsepower to perform this function. This is simple physics. The current of the electric pump causes load upon the alternator, the alternator is not 100% efficient. So (follow me here) the load of the electric water pump is increased by the lack of efficiency of the alternator. This decrease of efficiency is translated to the pulley of the alternator as - lets say - 115% of the pump current use. The horsepower required of this increase use of the alternator MUST (again math) be more than the reduction of horsepower from the lack of the water pump on the belt (115% from above). There is no argument, no math that is argumentive to this - GIVEN no difference in pump flow, or blade efficiency.

Now, if the engine can run for short duration with much less water flow from the water pump, then you can gain HP from much less flow. Or, even if you can run forever on much less flow from the water pump, then you, perhaps, gain some limited HP from an electric pump.

I present that an electric water pump can never be more efficient than a belt driven pump (given the same flow rate). If you advise that the reduced flow rate of the electric pump is OK, and supplies HP; Then I submit that an underdrive pulley on a belt driven water pump will save even more HP (by the 15% above). All of this is IF and ONLY IF a reduction of water flow is acceptable (and perhaps this is true in the 1/4 mile).

Thanks for the chance to further explain the :bs

silver & red CE

Pete, lighten up, this isn't the C5 section, besides, you're wrong :)

The electric H2O pump is drawing a constant 20 amps, if you allow 50% effiency for the alternator that's 14V x 20A x 2 = 560W or ~0.75HP. A mechanical draws ~ 5-10HP at 5000 RPM, that's where the HP gain comes from.

Eric



[Modified by silver & red CE, 9:43 PM 10/29/2001]

Chris@SD

You have a flawed assumptions here:
Blade efficiencies are the same.
How can you assume this. As I stated before, the Meziere EP has been PROVEN to be more efficient. You can do math all day long for all I care, but when it is proven at the track and the dyno, that means that you equations are flawed!
The draw of the Meziere WP has been measured and it is around .5 HP if I remember correctly.
This is a dead horse and nay sayers like you have already been beaten down in the past. I really don't feel the need to defended myself. If you would like to take me up on my offer and prove me wrong, I would be more than happy to continue this. The bottom line is, these results have been measured time and time again.
Now let's see....measured results vs flawed assumptions... :) :) :)