Dominic Sorresso

On a ZF-6 trans-plant for my 84, the VSS signal needed to be reversed so had to splice a VSS plug that worked with the VSS sensor in the ZF.
The back-up light harness connector worked fine.

CentralCoaster

Your synchros are worn out, and probably the gear itself. I did the same exact thing to my 4+3. You can remove the side cover and inspect to be sure, but you need to know what you're looking at first.

It's not cost effective to rebuild. Parts alone will cost more than a replacement used unit.

I have an extra 4+3 (4-speed section) if you're interested. This is not the one I screwed up.

TKO ~ $3000, new kit
ZF6 ~ $1600 (used trans)
T56 ~ $unknown

CentralCoaster

You have a "large gear" 2-pulse (pre-91) gear-driven VSS with a 42 tooth green driven gear. Internal gear is a 17 tooth, red.

You want to maintain the same 42/17 ratio, with whichever speedo sensor you end up with.

CentralCoaster

How do you correct the speedo on the Camaro? Different magnetic pickup? Different reluctor in the trans? Program the ECM?

You cannot reprogram it on the vette, at least not the 84-90s, because it sends the signal to the dashboard directly, then to the ECM.

CentralCoaster

The VSSs are completely interchangeable and the plugs are the same pre-91. You only need to choose between a large gear or small gear VSS depending on your ring/pinion ratio. Even then, you can simply clock the VSS 180*.

As far as I know there is no polarity on the VSS signal, no need to reverse any wiring.

CentralCoaster

Leave all these disconnected, cut them or tie the out of the way. You don't need them nor will they set any codes.

Remove the TV cable entirely.

anesthes

The Vette/firebird use the same ECM, and same speed buffer electronics. (the box in the dash), with a VSS out to the ECM.

You don't have to reprogram it since we're working with the same pulses per mile. What we need to do is make sure we get the right VSS for the ECM (1227165 or 1227727) I cannot verify what your 85 or what a crossfire vette is, only the ecm's I have worked with.

A '92-96 is gonna be on 'his own' as well, if it's optical the VSS out of a 91+ fbody may work but I don't know if the pulses per mile are the same, as a '91 fbody, but than again I think this is geared more towards 86-88 cars, right? ZF6 was stock in '89/manual. With that said, we're gonna be dealing with a 1227165 ECM with magnetic VSS which is stock on any 86-90 FIREBIRD. 91-92 will be optical. Camaros were cable/mechanical.

I may have miss-spoke by saying the 84-85 was magnetic, since I have an '87 which came with a '165 ECM I can ONLY vouch for 86-89. But I'm going to 'assume' the 84-85 was magnetic as well. (though I'm running a '730 ecm, but thats another story)

-- Joe

anesthes

The T56 is still pretty expensive due to not many 4th gens being in the salvage yards, and the fact that you can only use an LT1 version due to changes in the input shaft + bolt pattern. Due to the fact it requires hydraulics, bell housing, flywheel + clutch from the donor car, and that the average price for that mess is around $1500.. Well you see where I'm going.

A company makes a bell housing for the T56 that allows you to use any push clutch up to 11" (hydraulic throwout bearing) but the bell housing is $600 w/ hydraulics (master + tob). If you can score a T56 for $600 it
might be worth it, but doing a quick search on my junkyard locater, the cheapest I see are:

1997
Transmission
Pontiac Firebird Transam 5.7,6SPD,SELL WITH 300 ONLY 68,000 A C0931 $1000 Elite Motors, Inc. USA-MI(Detroit) E-mail 888-354-8366 / 313-945-5400 614
1994
Transmission
Pontiac Firebird PRICE EXCHANGE TRANS ONLY MORRIS $950 American Camaro & Firebird Auto Parts USA-OK(Warr-Acres) E-mail 1-888-833-4582 1496
1994
Transmission
Chevy Camaro 157797 $800 Counselman Automotive Recycling of Mobile USA-AL(Mobile) E-mail 1-877-330-2720/1-251-330-2700 1247
1995
Transmission
Chevy Camaro Z28 6 spd (5.7L) 228,000 A063 $700 Born Again Auto Parts USA-FL(Webster) E-mail 352-793-2356

-- Joe

JLeatherman

All the yards around my area wanted 1000-1200 for a good LT1 T56 (trans only) which is why I didn't do a T56 swap. I have seen plenty of cheap T5s there though.

As for the ECM, I couldn't care less what kind of signal it wants. My car is carbed now and the only thing I need to make sure is that the speedo will read the right speed from the VSS. It's probably the same VSS as the 86-89 because I know others have bolted an 86-89 4+3 trans into an 84/85 and it worked fine without changing the VSS. If mine is a magnetic pickup, and it sounds like it is, then any Magnetic pickup from the T5 could presumably be geared to the correct ratio for my speedo and read correctly. I'll be especially interested in that part of the swap.

Carl Johansson

My TKO 500 cost 2200 bucks - shipped from the factory! included everything I needed - they even threw in a free clutch because they were slow in delivery!

Carl Johansson

JLeatherman

Keisler's website listed the "Perfect Fit" kit with the VSS and adapters and everything at $3400 for the TKO 500 and $3700 for the TKO 600. Not sure how you got it for $2200 unless that price was trans only.

Regardless, we're still talking well under $1000 for a T5 conversion with the stronger of the T5's.

Carl Johansson

The original question was for switching out a 4+3 , thats what I did - you are correct - it was for the trans only. again - what is your time worth? CC is still screwing around trying to get his ZF to his liking - what is it - a year or 18 months later now. I put mine in in less than 2 days - that was it - I am done with it. Like I said - to me the extra cost was more than made up for by no down time and allowing me to spend time on other projects! i get hammered repeatedly by people who have "saved lots of money" by doing their own conversions - and they are right - if you don't count time agrevation maintanance and everything else that goes along with it!

Carl "I'll shut up because I have nothing of substance to help you achieve your goal - I wish you the best of luck with it - i wish I had the time and energy to attempt what you are doing! Hopefully i will see you on the track someday soon!" Johansson

anesthes

What about all the other stuff needed to do the swap? So far it seems like you spent $2200 on a trans that cost me $50 in a swap meet, and still have to do the same work to put it in... What about the cbeam? shifter location? Tunnel patch? I guess I'm confused. I've seen the parts included in the "kit" that isn't $2200, so how did you deal with all that?

[QUOTE=Carl Johansson;1562315038]

CC is still screwing around trying to get his ZF to his liking - what is it - a year or 18 months later now.
{/quote]

Yep, is ZF - the stock transmission in 89+ vettes. I'm not sure what CC's exact problems are other than 6th gear being useless for his rear end ratio. I know on my friends '91 I didn't like the way it shifted. Could have been a bad trans though. I think they shift "goofy". But thats a personal opinion.


Again, We're talking about kit parts. You had to do all the same things WE have to do. You just paid more for your parts. The TKO is a better tranny, so perhaps that was worth it to you.

Again. You did the same thing we did. Just more expensive. Your argument doesn't work out here. Unless your counting the time to gather the parts from more than one source. Then I guess you have me there.

I appreciate the good words. Again we're not knocking you for choosing the 'direct fit kit', but thats obviously not what you bought so we're a little confused at what exactly you are getting at.

-- Joe

CentralCoaster

Carl, I'm absolutely not still screwing with the ZF swap now. Your posts are condescending and unnecessary.

Joe, Carl's whole basis here is that I spent awhile gathering parts and information on the swap. It was about 6 months beginning to end with the headaches.

This was partly because people who don't know sh** were telling me what parts I needed...

...and because I got scammed on one of the parts and waited on him rather than buying it twice (I later put the guy in jail for a few days)...

...and because my 3.45 ring/pinion were literally stolen by the gear shop and he gave me the run around. The labor time for me removing/reinstalling the diff (~4 hours) with new gears is something you won't need to do with the TKO swap...

...and because I'm lazy and was in no rush to see how fast I could order and install parts. The vette isn't my only car.



It's always more risky that you'll run into problems when relying on the forum for information, or buying parts off ebay or salvage yards.

So I do my best to save people from the same problems I had, by providing accurate parts information, telling off misinformation regurgitators, and keeping scammers off this site.

The peace of mind you get with the Keisler kit costs money. Nothing's free.

CentralCoaster

Yup Carl, life's more challenging when you save money by using more ingenuity and elbow grease. Keep in mind that extra money you spent required work on your part to earn it, and didn't provide you with much knowledge to help others with aside from "Life's too short, send money to Keisler". I guess that's a time saver for you thoguh as no one will ask you for help on ZF6 swaps like they ask me.

VtVette

Wow this thread is a true wealth of information. I've always contemplated a manual tranny swap into my '85 but other things on the list always took priority. With the info in this thread I may start looking for the parts to do a T5 swap. The T5 is sounding like a great choice for my '85. It's just a street car, no racing or competition use. I like to work on the car, don't mind the minor fabbing that the swap will require, and if I take a little time to find deals on the parts they can be bought dirt cheap.

Thanks anesthes, Central, and everyone who contributed to this thread.

BTW - anyone know the weight savings between a 700R4 and a WC T5?

anesthes

Probably almost 50 lbs. tranny for tranny. But you gotta take into consideration the bell housing / flywheel / clutch.

I can put a T5 in with one hand, holding it over my head. I need a tranny jack for the 700R4. I can move a 700R4 with two people around the shop, where a T5 I can hold under my arms and lock the door with my other hand.

-- Joe

ixlor8

Joe, what is best guess for weight of the T-5 with out the bell housing?

Did you get a hold of Pro Street Customs yesterday? It sounds like he will be finishing the c beam adapter this week. With your testing and "OK" the adapter will be released soon.

What are the chance that you could take images for your install? C-beam, transmission tunnel mods, shifter mods too.

anesthes

I didn't talk to them this week. I've been getting my plow truck ready for winter. Once UPS/Fedex shows up with the cbeam adapter I'll jump back on the vette/t5. Once I get the cbeam adapter it's a matter of spending a night at the shop making sure things work, and noting things down, pictures, etc.

-- Joe

anesthes

FYI, I spoke with Scott at fort worth clutch. I was trying to understand how a vette could run a 10 3/4 clutch, and a fbody 10 1/2 when the flywheel is the same part #. Apparently the vette pressure plate (10 3/4) is notched for the bolts, but ends up being a weaker pressure plate. He recommended staying with the HD 10.5" pressure plate.

Anyhow, a dual friction 10.5" HD pressure plate, clutch disc, alignment tool, and TOB = $160 shipped. I've used their clutches before with VERY good results. Basicly a centerforce DF w/out weights.

-- Joe