GeosFun

The assumption you're making is none of us did our homework and that we should believe everything on your website: Independent flow sheets vs what is on your web site.

d48mclain, it is the little editorial negative sarcasms you add to your "factual and honost" information (here and on your other posts on CF) that are construed as "bashing". Try eliminating that and just ask a question or make your comments without the digs. We are all interested in discussing questions and observations. It is the innuendo that is annoying

JAKE

I'm continually amazed at how AFR is always at the center of cylinder head controversies such as this one.

Has anyone else noticed that too or is it just me?

Jake

d48mclain

I'll try and be more restrained in the future. Thank you for the positive feedback.

On a real note......Is Mark Montivao (sp) still around as I believe he was from Redding and I know B&B performance has since moved. Everyone probably owes more to those guys pioneering stroker LTx motors than heads from AFR even though they did use AFR heads mostly because that was all that was available back then. Way ahead of the curve and if Mark is still around, tell him I said hello. Know he was in a bad automotive accident and kinda dropped out of the scene but......very bright.

GeosFun

I am happy you took my comments as a positive. That is how I intended them. You do put up a lot of factual information that is worth discussing.

I do not know Mark. If you are referring to Brian Sisson's business, B&B Performance, he moved his busiess back east some where, then he returned to Redding a couple of years ago. There is no way to say this easily.....he died of some terminal disease, annurism or something, I am not sure what it was. I was shocked to learn that maybe a year ago or so. He was only in his 40's, give or take. Very sad

88BlackZ-51

CoronaL

I don't know about AFR in the SBC arena but they are all the rage in the LS1 area. I would hope their product was consisent from one product to another. It appears they've had some issues in the past, but I can vouch for Tony in that he's never to my knowledge tried to inflate numbers, or be shady in any way. I think he's just excited about their new product and if I was him I probably would be too.

That said, there are other options and that is ultimately good for all for all of us. Keeps the prices in line

d48mclain

Perhaps I need to make a confession to cleanse the sole so I don't sound like a basher. In 25 years of sales and marketing, I did recruit luminaries, got them to write testimonials and articles and some of them even got paid in various ways. Shoot, even wrote a couple myself and just put their names on them. OK….my conscience is clear.

What I didn't do was grocery store sensationalism with articles of people taken into space in flying saucers, boys raised by wolves nor 900lb fat people and what they ate. Have a personal problem with that type of marketing because as we all know; none of it is probably true. (Not sure about all the flying saucer stuff though)

If you will read this months (I know, don't believe mag articles as they are usually disguised endorsements…..and this one is also) Chevy High Performance there is an article on Dart's new Pro 1 head with an interview of Tom McAffe whom is a Dart employee. Enjoyed the article because I could relate to it. It was reasonable in the conclusions and believable in everyday life.

They state flow rates in the 260-270 cfm range with seems quite conservative. Say the 383 engine they used made 503 hp @ 6,000 rpm using a 236/248 cam which most of also can relate to. Explain how they use wet flow vs dry flow to further develop their new heads.

What they say appears logical regarding how increased wet flow velocity more closely mocks how an engine would perform during actual operation and by using a liquid with the air, more closely simulates true operation. The gains are a little over 20 hp from their prior head using this wet flow technology. None appears excessive.

When you live on the knife's edge claiming 115 hp gains instead of 20 some. 615 hp 383 using the biggest circle track cam Comp makes in a set-up that doesn't quite match any real world application. Act like this would be typical of production heads……. you occasionally get cut.

They do seem to keep themselves in controversy for some reason.

Now……was that bashing?? Hope not. My apologies go out already.

d48mclain

Lately the Dart and Trick Flow LS stuff is getting a lot of praise also. AFR I believe was the first LS aftermarket head as they were the first reverse flow LT.

tpi 421 vette

Hey guys I just got a set of these Eliminator race ready 195 heads for a 383 super ram project, and they have addressed pasted issues. The coolant passages are much bigger, and the casting is much taller to eliminate drainback issues. They do look really good. I don't have access to a flow bench and they are already on the engine, so I can't verify flow numbers. AD performance www.adperformance.com had them (part number 1040) on the shelf ready to ship.

Snakeskinner

Which AFR dealers have you guys had the best experience
with? (I had a bad experience with one a called last week)

Eike

I ordered my 195 AFR heads at AD performance. Great customer service

BadSS

Something was wrong with the bench,, the heads,, or the way they were tested (no fixture, unfinished seat and valve maybe???). (EDIT: Ok,, you did say these were the as cast heads - which does not have their base CNC finish that the Race Ready heads have. I've never seen a set of bare AFR heads, but depending on the amount of core shift and how much the CNC program cleans up the bowl area,,, there may be nothing "wrong" with them or the bench. - end edit). Here's flow data of the older design 210 Race Ready heads (std 23*) with a 3/8" radiused fixture - I witnessed and recorded the numbers myself (CHS Data). I believe these to be numbers what most bolt-on buyers would see with the older design.


AFR...... CHP .....AFR ....... CHS ................ Quick
210 RR . Data.... Data ...... Stock .......... clean-up
.1 ........ 67 ....... - .......... 73 ..................... 79
.2 ........ 140 ...... 135 ...... 130 (96.3%) ....... 137
.3 ........ 197 ...... 197 ...... 180 (91.3%) ....... 188
.4 ........ 240 ...... 245 ...... 233 (95.1%) ....... 239
.5 ........ 271 ...... 273 ...... 274 (100.4%) ...... 277
.6 ........ 279 ...... 282 ...... 285 (101.1) ........ 285
.65 ....... -- ........ 283 ...... 283 (100) ........... 283
.7 ........ 284 ...... 285

CHP - Chevy High Performance magazine
AFR - Air Flow Research Data
CHS - Independent and witnessed data - out of the box
Quick Clean Up - 3 minute "clean-up" process - not "porting"

The CHS shop owner said these were typical flow numbers from the 210 AFR heads,,, that the .3 and .4 lifts were typically down 5 - 7%. He flowed a set of heads I had CNC ported and flowed back in 1996 while I was there,,, just to help validate the bench (and fixture used) and numbers were within 1 - 2 cfm at all lifts. The owner of the shop is an old friend,,, known long before he got into the business,,, so I can say with 100% certainty the CHS information is accurate and without any vested interest in AFR or a shop brand competitor's head.

To me,, it kinda looks like the flow numbers AFR posted is a "perfect casting" - maybe one of the first production heads with no core shift or casting imperfections. I personally have no problem with the numbers they posted as I haven't pulled a head out of the box and bolted it on in years.

Snakeskinner

Tony MCAfee
He used to port L-98 heads for Lingenfelter
before they went CNC,he ported a set for me when he was on
his on.

Numbers werent big ,but performance was on my 383 SR

Caboboy

Actually, the CNCd AFR195s I have exceeded their published numbers when I had them flowed. It's not the first time I've heard that happening either.

FastVette94

I had the same issue as 97Aggie (JP) with my 190 LT1 AFRs. I had a crack form in the exhaust passage which let coolant run into the cylinder (this happened on my #4 cyl). It almost ruined my new 383.

The machineshop that found the crack said they have seen this issue on another set of LT AFRs (I think they were 97Aggies' heads).

I sent the heads back to AFR where they were repaired. No problem from them since. *knocks on wood*

Maximus9000

Visually, how can you tell the differance between an Eliminator Head and an non-Eliminator head?

88BlackZ-51

I have a few pics for you. BTW, Has anyone tested these heads out yet????????????

Pete K

We're waitin on you

88BlackZ-51

Won't be till after the wedding Pete. Priorities. I thought you would of flowed yours allready? I would of, but mine are with Mos90 at his place 6 hrs away.

Pete K

I am not concerned with the flow, but I am thinking about the timeslip