I am in a similar boat. When my pan was fabricated by
Armando's, it arrived with a custom-fit 5/8" pickup for my
Moroso 22100.
You might check whether Hamburger has a custom shop.
If they do, perhaps they are able to fab a pickup for your
pan/pump combo without any special effort on your part.
Rick suggested this to me in the Moroso thread. unfortunately
for me, the catch is that Moroso will not be familiar with the
baffles in my custom pan. So I expect they would need to
work blind unless I sent the pan to them
.
Thanks for the info - I will call Hamburger.
But I would put Hamburger pans on the do not buy list since their pickup is made for the m55. Maybe under the circumstance they will manufacture new pickups and reconsider the use of a m55.
Now you guys have scared hell out of me. I have a brand new Melling Select pump, with a brand new bolt on pickup for a 7" pan, and a brand new Canton road race pan that hasn't been delivered yet. Does anybody know if the Canton is going to fit?
Now you guys have scared hell out of me. I have a brand new Melling Select pump, with a brand new bolt on pickup for a 7" pan, and a brand new Canton road race pan that hasn't been delivered yet. Does anybody know if the Canton is going to fit?
If the pickup is standard melling and you pan has a windage tray or a trap door sytem it will not work. You are lucky that canton has a pickup for the melling Select 10555- http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...s/pickups.html
Canton pickups is one of the vendors I am looking at to solve my problem.
I currently have a Hamburger 7 qt pan (8" deep) with the supplied
pickup made for the M55 version of pump. The pickup is built super
strong & I cannot bend or adjust it. Hamburger pickup
Now I have the M-Select pump #10552 that is approximately 3/8"
longer and has a .750" dia inlet, rather than .625" like the M55.
The original oil pickup inlet is smaller so I had a friend in the seal
business make me a seal to adapt the original Hamburger pickup to the
new pump. Now the pickup almost hits the bottom of the pan, it is
less than 1/16" off. I know this by using putty and bolting up the pan.
So I ordered the Melling pickup (#12559) which bolts onto the pump
and is intended for an aftermarket pan that is 8" deep. This pickup
has an OEM saucer-shaped inlet instead of the usual matchbox inlet.
I thought I had my problem corrected until I tried to put the pan back
on to see where the pickup will be. The pickup hits the windage tray
and there is no way it will work.
Hamburger does not currently offer a pickup for the M-select pump.
Their Racing pan includes a pickup that only works on a M55 series pump (how ironic is this).
HELP
85vet - I hope you feel my revisions to your post are not out of line.
Here is your M-Select 10552. I believe it is taller than the M55, mainly
because the bottom housing needs to be thicker to accomodate the
3/4" pickup tube.
Here is the Hamburger pickup (5/8")
I believe the pickup below is the Melling you have. They are available
in at least three configurations, all with the saucer-style inlet that
interferes with the Hamburger windage tray.
MEL-12557 - 7.0" oil pan depth
MEL-12558 - 7.5"
MEL-12559 - 8.0"
Pickup Installation: Bolt-in
Notes: Clearance between the bolts and holes allows 3/16 in. to 1/4 in.
adjustment up or down to custom fit your application.
If the Hamburger pickup fits but is too close to the pan bottom, one
fix would be to put it in the bandsaw to chop the bottom off the
matchbox. Then weld a replacement screen on the shorter matchbox.
But I feel uncomfortable with the idea of using the seal you've come
up with to adapt the 5/8" tube to the 3/4" pump inlet. And the smaller
matchbox might perform oddly.
Time to get resourceful. There are a lot of pickups on the market,
perhaps by scrounging through the catalogs, a suitable one can be
found?
The main criteria are
- 3/4" inlet
- Regular volume pump (well, +10% actually)
. (high volume pump is taller)
- 8" deep pan
Here are some possible choices from Moroso and Milodon.
I am not sure they are all 3/4", you need to check on your own
to be sure everything is correct. Some are for pans that are less
than 8" deep, these might allow for the taller pump - ie: a 7.625"
pickup on a 0.375" taller pump might work well for an 8" pan.
MOR-24360
Oil Pan Depth (in): 8.250 in.
Pickup Installation: Bolt-in
Tube Diameter (in): 0.750 in.
If the pickup is standard Melling and you pan has a windage tray
or a trap door system, it will not work. You are lucky that Canton
has a pickup for the Melling Select 10555 - http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...s/pickups.html
Canton pickups is one of the vendors I am looking at to solve my problem.
The M-Select 10555 is the high volume (+25%) version of the pump. I believe the higher volume is achieved w/ taller/longer gears.
The pump body is taller to accomodate the taller gears - perhaps by
a 1/4"?
Therefore, all other things being equal, a pickup for the 10555 pump
should work on the 10552 pump with the net result that for the 10552
the pickup is perhaps 1/4" further away from the pan bottom (by the
difference in height between the two pump bodies).
Per Canton's chart in the link above:
For a 10555 pump in Canton's 7" roadrace pan, the pickup is (NOT) #20-077
Edit: Midnight_85 has pointed out an error - the 20-077 is for a 'CT' or
Circle Track application, not for a Roadrace app.
For a 10555 pump in Canton's 8" dragrace app, the pickup is #20-082
The M-Select 10555 is the high volume (+25%) version of the pump. I believe the higher volume is achieved w/ taller/longer gears.
The pump body is taller to accomodate the taller gears - perhaps by
a 1/4"?
Therefore, all other things being equal, a pickup for the 10555 pump
should work on the 10553 pump with the net result that for the 10553
the pickup is perhaps 1/4" further away from the pan bottom (by the
difference in height between the two pump bodies).
Per Canton's chart in the link above:
For a 10555 pump in Canton's 7" roadrace pan, the pickup is #20-077
For a 10555 pump in Canton's 8" dragrace app, the pickup is #20-082
.
I hate to disagree but according to Canton's chart per the above link, they do not make a pickup for the 10555 pump in the 15-240 pan.
I sure hope this means mine will work.
Slalom4me,
Any info is good info and yours is definately good..
I am also looking at Stef's pan/pickup also. Transman on brackettalk is a reseller and he will be calling them on Monday. I do believe a solution is viable without the use of a machine shop and yes - I do want a pickup that fits the .75 inlet.
I hate to disagree but according to Canton's chart per the above link, they do not make a pickup for the 10555 pump in the 15-240 pan.
I sure hope this means mine will work.
Your not disageeing, you made no mention of the actual pan model# and that piece of info agrees with your statement. I hope it fits or you will be in a similar situation that I am in.
You're right, I could have been much more precise. I do have the 15-240 pan and I do have the 10555 pump with the Melling pickup for a 7" pan but the fact remains that Canton does NOT make a pickup for this combo. Please don't think I'm trying to stir things up, I'm not, it's just the fact that there is a slight mistake in Slalom4me's statement concerning this combo. Slalom4 me, and 85vet, please don't take offense I sure do know what everyone is going through getting a working combo and I'd hate to see someone ordering parts they can't use.
You're right, I could have been much more precise. I do have the 15-240 pan and I do have the 10555 pump with the Melling pickup for a 7" pan but the fact remains that Canton does NOT make a pickup for this combo. Please don't think I'm trying to stir things up, I'm not, it's just the fact that there is a slight mistake in Slalom4me's statement concerning this combo. Slalom4 me, and 85vet, please don't take offense I sure do know what everyone is going through getting a working combo and I'd hate to see someone ordering parts they can't use.
No offense taken, - do a search on google for 7" oil pans. By the way, I have the 10552 that I think is the same lenght as your pump. The pickup, at least in my case has to be close to the pump to fit. I am doing alot of research - just because of this d@mn m55 debacle.
The M-Select 10555 is the high volume (+25%) version of the pump. I believe the higher volume is achieved w/ taller/longer gears.
The pump body is taller to accomodate the taller gears - perhaps by
a 1/4"?
Therefore, all other things being equal, a pickup for the 10555 pump
should work on the 10552 pump with the net result that for the 10552
the pickup is perhaps 1/4" further away from the pan bottom (by the
difference in height between the two pump bodies).
Per Canton's chart in the link above:
For a 10555 pump in Canton's 7" roadrace pan, the pickup is #20-077
For a 10555 pump in Canton's 8" dragrace app, the pickup is #20-082
.
I hate to disagree but according to Canton's chart per the above link,
they do not make a pickup for the 10555 pump in the 15-240 pan.
I sure hope this means mine will work.
Oops, I was wrong.
The chart states the 20-077 pickup is for the CT/CircleTrack pan.
There is no entry in the space for a pickup compatible with the
15-240 Road Race pan.
I have the Hamburgers 3047 road race/circle track pan. 7qt 7" deep. Diamond scraper windage screen and four gates inside. Works well height wise on my lowered car.
This is what the pickup they gave me to match it looks like.
My worry was that I have old style AFR 195's with the oil retention problem and that pump was a 55HV. Since the pickup was 5/8" and didn't fit into the 3/4" Melling housing I figured I would adapt it and maybe help with the overoiling problem from the HV pumps by restricting it a bit. So I just cut the end off the HV pickup (which didn't remotely fit the pan anyway) and drilled the inside to just slip over the Hamburgers pickup. Then tacked it on.
Now maybe you guys can help me out with something since you all seem well informed. I was just going to buy a new pump drive with a steel collar since this is a road race/endurance kind of car, street driven though, and I wanted to ditch the plastic one. First thing I ran into was that since it's a 400 block I have to get the smaller diameter shaft to clear the large main bearings, ok no problem. The thing that made me finally give up on that, as I was in a rush to get it back together, is that my pump does NOT have a slotted shaft at the top. It has a hex shaped hole and the shaft has a hex shaped end, kind of like a big block mopar. I couldn't find anything in Jegs or Summit that matched so left it alone. I would show a photo but it's already back together. The pump has the tag on it with MH55HV and came with this pickup (well here are both the one that came with the pump and the new Hamburgers one).
Does anyone have any idea what variation on the Mellingspump this is? I haven't seen any mention of hex drive pumps or shafts anywhere. Thanks for any information.
No offense taken, - do a search on google for 7" oil pans. By the way, I have the 10552 that I think is the same lenght as your pump. The pickup, at least in my case has to be close to the pump to fit. I am doing alot of research - just because of this d@mn m55 debacle.
This Melling mess about the m55 pumps is just that, a mess. They need to be shot for doing this. I have used the M55HV for over 30 years now and already had my engine ready to go in when the first thread showed up about them breaking. I am just glad it did show up when it did. What I can tell you is that my 10555 is, without exact measuring, the same length as the M55HV.
Jaxian, I can't help you a bit with your problem about the fitment with a Hamburger pan but I can tell you to definitely get rid of that plastic collar on the pump drive shaft. If you get a Melling Select pump for your engine it will come with the proper shaft. In all my years of building engines I have NEVER encountered a hex shape for the drive shaft so I am completely lost there.
I have the Hamburgers 3047 road race/circle track pan.
This is what the pickup they gave me to match it looks like.
The pickup is offset to the passenger side, usually denoting an emphasis
on left turns, as in circle track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxian
So I just cut the end off the HV pickup (which didn't remotely
fit the pan anyway) and drilled the inside to just slip over the
Hamburgers pickup. Then tacked it on.
Is there any likelihood there may be less than a 100%
seal at the tube-to-pump joint?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxian
...my pump does NOT have a slotted shaft at the top. It has a
hex-shaped hole and the shaft has a hex shaped end, ...
Does anyone have any idea what variation on the Mellings pump this is?
I have read about the hex-drive pumps but the ones I've seen
were for BBC's like the Melling 10775 & 10778C.
Did you happen to disassemble it and take a picture?
How many teeth on the pump gears?
As far as the fit on the pickup it had to be pressed into the housing so there shouldn't be any issues there. I didn't know to count the teeth when I had the top off it to tack on the original pickup before I found it wouldn't fit in the pan at all, but I did measure the heighth of the gears inside and they were the taller gears (1.5" as I recall) if I have it apart again I will check for how many teeth.
If you look at the close up of the driveshaft for it you can see how it gets smaller where it goes through the maincap to clear the larger bearing journal. I didn't see any shafts that were heavy duty that matched that with the steel collar. They all said I had to machine the block for the bigger one to fit, which at this point would mean a total rebuild so I am going to skip for now.
As to why the shaft is hex head and the top of the pump is also just a solid bar with a hex hole in it I am at a loss. I haven't found any mention of steel collared, hex head, 400 bearing fitting oil pump driveshaft anywhere or I would get one. If anyone knows I might actually consider pulling the pan off to put it in. At that point I will take pictures of this odd beast and post them. Thanks for helping out guys.
If you look at the close up of the driveshaft for it you
can see how it gets smaller where it goes through the maincap
to clear the larger bearing journal. I didn't see any shafts that
were heavy duty that matched that with the steel collar. They
all said I had to machine the block for the bigger one to fit, which
at this point would mean a total rebuild so I am going to skip for now.
As to why the shaft is hex head and the top of the pump is also just
a solid bar with a hex hole in it I am at a loss. I haven't found any
mention of steel collared, hex head, 400 bearing fitting oil pump
driveshaft anywhere or I would get one. If anyone knows I might
actually consider pulling the pan off to put it in. At that point I will
take pictures of this odd beast and post them. Thanks for helping
out guys.
My vote is that there is some trickle-down BBC technology being
applied to the Melling SBC pump.
As mentioned earlier, there are at least three BBC Melling pumps
with hex drive intermediate shafts.
Details about the SBC anti-cavitation versions of the M-Select
pumps 10552C (+10% vol) & 10555C (+25% vol) both mention:
"The driveshaft has a male hex drive,
and the corresponding female hex
intermediate shaft is provided.
Details about the non-anti-cavitation versions 10552 (+10% vol)
& 10555 (+25% vol) do not mention the hex driveshaft.
In a search for hex intermediate oil pump driveshafts, the only
instance I've found is Melling's 12578P. No picture, just an application
guide specifying use for the 10778, 10775 & 10778C BBC pumps.
IIRC, the BBC driveshaft is typically uniform in diameter along its
length, while the SBC necks down in dia between the pump end
and the dist end. If your hex driveshaft is the same dia over the
full length, I'd suspect there is a chance it is the 12578P BBC shaft.
85vet, I wonder whether conv90 and ed hess have already found
the answer for those of us who need a heavy/original casting
version of the M55 standard volume pump?
When I look at pg 3 of the Mellings on-line catalog, the description
for the 10553 says it is "a standard volume version of the 10550 performance pump".
The picture in the catalog shows the heavy casting and a chart
states it has a 5/8" inlet w/ machined steel gears.
If this is the case, perhaps our existing 5/8" pickups for our
aftermarket/custom pans will work with this pump?
