my 383 experience
09-03-2001, 03:02 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
my 383 experience
well it's been a long time coming, but here's to having enuf free time to post long on the forum!
it began on a brisk spring day, a week after easter this year.. road america, elkhart lake wisconsin.. my favorite track.. one weekend a year is all i get on this track and it's like being a 3 year old on christmas morning when they let ya loose from the pits..
but on lap 2, the motor shut down in the middle of turn 3.. very uneasy feeling trying to steer thru the corner without power steering and two vipers hot on your tail..
as it turned out, i spun two main bearings.. this would be the second time i had bearing trouble, the first being on a banked oval track a year earlier when i spun two rod bearings.. the first incident was fairly certainly a cause of dry sumping the oil in a sustained high g corner.. the second incident i'm leaning towards an unbalanced motor.. since the first incident, i had installed a crate motor and an 8 qt road race oil pan.. but i used the old flywheel on my new crate motor and since these LT1's are externally balanced, i'm fairly certain the cause of bearing failure on the 2nd motor was because it was on it's 5th track event and had spent much time at 5000rpm and above due to my 4.09 gearing.. 8000 miles is all that motor saw..
so keeping true to my promise to myself that if i had to pull the motor again, i would build a stroker, i began weighing options.. the decision finally came down to utilizing my access to a garage with lifts and tools (local military base) and having a very experienced but LT1 ignorant "old guy" help me with the 383 build.. his network of "good ol boys" proved to be very cost saving as he picked up parts and let me buy them at his cost.. the only downside was that i had to constantly keep an eye on him to make sure he didn't try anything that my LT1 wouldn't be able to live with.. (like converting it to a 2 piece rear main seal among other things..) we went with an eagle forged lightweight crank, eagle esp h beam rods, je/srp pistons, clevite bearings and arp bolts throughout.. the entire rotating assembly was purchased as an internally balanced setup and then sent over for balancing with the balancer, aluminum flywheel and clutch pressure plate attached.. this should be very helpful in saving me from future bearing incidents ;)
i already had an LT4 hot cam and crane gold race 1.6rr's with dual springs, so we just had my stock heads and intake hand ported by dart heads (they're local) .. i'm a much bigger fan of hand porting than cnc..
the usual work was done to the block to prepare it to become a new 383.. i ended up doing a lot of little stuff like file fitting my own rings, cleaning the valvetrain components up for re-use, assembling the heads, etc..
in addition to the motor itself, i also purchased hooker long tubes from a fellow forum member along with custom slp exhaust to complete all the way back to the tailpipes.. resonance at 1500rpm is unbearable, but luckily i have 4.09 gears and highway cruising is up around 2100 rpm .. much more pleasant
but i have to confess, i'm pulling the shiny slp mufflers off this week and replacing them with edelbrock units, along with resonator tips to try and help the interior noise levels at certain rpms.. the edelbrock unit is fairly quiet at low rpms on my camaroz28, so i'm hoping for the same (or at least better than the slp's!!!) .. i'm a bit undecided on the resonator tips, i'm not sure they'll work out either in terms of sound or looks, but we'll see..
i also have a very nice 58mm tb, also bought used on the forum, which has replaced my previous 52mm unit.. 30# svo injectors sit at home, waiting for next sunday when i go visit shalin in delaware for a tuning update.. his last program (for my 350 with lt4 hot cam) is actually working quite well on the 383, but i feel i'm too close to the limit of the stock 24# injectors.. i also put in a walbro340 255lph @ 80psi fuel pump (in tank replacement).
i removed the pcv vent hose from the passenger side valve cover to the throttle body since at sustained high rpms (road course racing) the pcv system can't keep up with ventilation and i was previously sucking some oil thru this vent tube.. i now have a shiny breather from k&n on both valve covers.. my trick was to get a second passenger side valve cover and install it on the driver's side too
i took the opportunity to thoroughly clean the underside of the car, change the fuel filter and use a "stop rust" agent on any dubious spots while the drivetrain was out of the car..
i had a bit of misfortune while the car was apart and sitting behind the garage facility.. another military guy (retired actually) did the brakes in his daughter's minivan and did not check for good pressure before backing out and into my vette.. amazingly the body damage was not much visibly, but rear suspension damage was heavy.. lots of those parts have been replaced.. basically the rear wheels took majority of the force, hitting a 12" verticle cement retaining barrier, bouncing 3 feet in the air and then the car landed on top of it, rear wheels dangling.. i was 1200 miles away, in ft carson colorado at the time!
so what would a new 383 motor and a showroom stock cleanliness be without new rims and tires? sure the bfgoodrich tires on my stock '94 rims are brand new, but how is 275mm's worth of tire supposed to be enuf to hang on to the asphalt? thanks to the gm employee discount and a roomate who was kind enuf to return one of my many favors, i got a sweet price on 4 new grandsport rims, black 5 spokes in the 17x9.5 and 17x11" sizes.. i fit those with yokohama avs sports in 275 and 315mm widths :D
i *think* that just about wraps up the mods list, so on with the sequence of events..
the motor went into the car 2 weeks ago, the first thing you learn in projects like this is that the waiting for parts or machine work is 3 times as long as you'd figure..
having put a crate motor in before, i'm becoming quite adept at this procedure.. the motor dropped right in with the big 8 qt oil pan on it already.. i left the front balancer and the flywheel off for now tho, as they're easy to install later.. also left the intake off so that i could prime the oil system within reasonable time from the first start up!
the big accessory bracket on the front and also the starter were installed already also, plus the dipstick..
i took this opportunity to put some braided hose covering on most of the hoses.. my parents had gotten me the kit a couple of years ago for christmas so i thought i'd finally get it out of the house! turned out nice, pics to come later..
so the motor is in, next the balancer is put on and the aluminum flywheel.. i needed standard arp flywheel bolts since the ones from my stock dual mass flywheel were too long for the new fidanza unit. they really should package the aluminum flywheels with the right bolts, but they don't.
on went the clutch and pressure plate, nice lifetime warranty pieces from autozone *LOL* .. since i roadrace this car rather than 5000rpm dumps on slicks at the drag strip, i opted to forego any aftermarket clutch setups which often cause troubles for people anyhow..
headers were next in line, the longtubes actually fit up there very easy, tho the motor was still low since the driveline support beam was still out of the car.. this may have facilitated things a bit..
since i bought the headers used, i did not get header bolts with them nor did i realize i'd be needing 'em.. just another day.. header bolts actually were quite an unpleasant task, but i've done 'em twice now and by using small hex head on some and allen head on others, it's much easier to do the whole job now.. i had to do the headers twice because they were leaking with the first set of gaskets which were really designed for the stock manifolds.. i went with sce copper gaskets on the second go-around and was generous with the rtv sealant.. i didn't completely pull the headers out for the second gasket install.. just unbolted them and slid new gaskets in place with rtv around the ports.. i *might* still have a small leak on the passenger side, but after putting 200 miles on the car, i'm thinking i don't because i can't smell any exhaust while driving.. i'd also say i can't hear an exhaust leak while driving either, but that's a moot point since the car is so loud! if i end up needing to try a 3rd time to seal them, i'll pull the headers completely, have the flanges rewelded and planed flat, hammer the sce copper gaskets flat and use rtv again.. then i *know* it won't leak! but i'm getting by for now so that'll wait..
so headers on, next i re-installed the driveline support beam and driveshaft.. done under the car, time to move back up to the engine bay.. hoses connected next, next prime the oil system.. attaching a drill motor to the oil pump shaft and spin it until oil is coming all the way up to the rockers.. now time to seal the intake..
from past experience, i know that you lay your copper rtv bead and then set the intake on.. if it doesn't go straight down and stay there, i.e. if you have to shift it at all to get the holes to line up, it probably won't seal and will leak oil.. on the third attempt, i got it perfect and began bolting it down, only to look in my tray of parts behind me and realize i did not put the oil pump drive gear in after priming the oil system!!! laff.. oh well.. 4 times a charm (and no leaks after 200 miles now)
so while the rtv was curing (a 24 hour process) i hooked up the fuel rails, wiring harness, intake, etc.. all the accessories back on, good to go as soon as 24 hours is up! just another day..
and then, finally, fired it up for the first time! nervous of course, as anybody who's just spent a whole bunch of cash might be.. (and i'll continue to be nervous until my first 500 miles are done and i swap out the regular oil for synthetic and find nothing bad in the first oil when i drain it!) got the rockers adjusted and took it out for a very short trip around the block.. itching to go run it, but patience persevered..
a couple hours of idling in the parking lot, making sure no problems arose.. another day..
so yesterday, finally, the vette would leave that base for the first time since april! a short trip, just to get 50 miles or so on it and pull the valve covers once again to make sure everything still looks ok.. all was good.
and today, realizing i'm less than a week away from driving it from detroit to dc, i figured i better start putting some miles on it and making sure i'm comfortable with the new engine! 200 miles later, driving nowhere in particular but sticking to mostly 2000rpm freeway driving (ok ok, no i couldn't resist the urge to gas it a couple of times) i'm almost halfway done with the break-in period. tomorrow i'll put it on the hoist again to make sure there are still no leaks and pull the valve covers yet again, because, like i said, i'll be nervous for the first 500 miles at least!!!
one thing is for certain, those new rims and tires are going on the car tomorrow.. the 275's on the back aren't holding the road one bit!! even from a 50mph roll already in gear (i.e. not dropping the clutch) it'll light 'em up easily.. and 80mph tire spinning is no problem if one allows me to rev it up and drop the clutch first!!
of course answers to the big questions, like dyno numbers, 1/4 mile times and where are the pictures, well, those will come later! pictures at least will be this week if i find time.. they're still in the camera!
a big thanks to all those on the forum who helped me with pieces of this project.. i am sure there is some part of it that i wanted to share but left out of this post, but if you're still reading after all of this then you just have too much free time!!!
i'll add a picture link to this thread later, have a good one, see ya at a track soon,
it began on a brisk spring day, a week after easter this year.. road america, elkhart lake wisconsin.. my favorite track.. one weekend a year is all i get on this track and it's like being a 3 year old on christmas morning when they let ya loose from the pits..
but on lap 2, the motor shut down in the middle of turn 3.. very uneasy feeling trying to steer thru the corner without power steering and two vipers hot on your tail..
as it turned out, i spun two main bearings.. this would be the second time i had bearing trouble, the first being on a banked oval track a year earlier when i spun two rod bearings.. the first incident was fairly certainly a cause of dry sumping the oil in a sustained high g corner.. the second incident i'm leaning towards an unbalanced motor.. since the first incident, i had installed a crate motor and an 8 qt road race oil pan.. but i used the old flywheel on my new crate motor and since these LT1's are externally balanced, i'm fairly certain the cause of bearing failure on the 2nd motor was because it was on it's 5th track event and had spent much time at 5000rpm and above due to my 4.09 gearing.. 8000 miles is all that motor saw..
so keeping true to my promise to myself that if i had to pull the motor again, i would build a stroker, i began weighing options.. the decision finally came down to utilizing my access to a garage with lifts and tools (local military base) and having a very experienced but LT1 ignorant "old guy" help me with the 383 build.. his network of "good ol boys" proved to be very cost saving as he picked up parts and let me buy them at his cost.. the only downside was that i had to constantly keep an eye on him to make sure he didn't try anything that my LT1 wouldn't be able to live with.. (like converting it to a 2 piece rear main seal among other things..) we went with an eagle forged lightweight crank, eagle esp h beam rods, je/srp pistons, clevite bearings and arp bolts throughout.. the entire rotating assembly was purchased as an internally balanced setup and then sent over for balancing with the balancer, aluminum flywheel and clutch pressure plate attached.. this should be very helpful in saving me from future bearing incidents ;)
i already had an LT4 hot cam and crane gold race 1.6rr's with dual springs, so we just had my stock heads and intake hand ported by dart heads (they're local) .. i'm a much bigger fan of hand porting than cnc..
the usual work was done to the block to prepare it to become a new 383.. i ended up doing a lot of little stuff like file fitting my own rings, cleaning the valvetrain components up for re-use, assembling the heads, etc..
in addition to the motor itself, i also purchased hooker long tubes from a fellow forum member along with custom slp exhaust to complete all the way back to the tailpipes.. resonance at 1500rpm is unbearable, but luckily i have 4.09 gears and highway cruising is up around 2100 rpm .. much more pleasant
but i have to confess, i'm pulling the shiny slp mufflers off this week and replacing them with edelbrock units, along with resonator tips to try and help the interior noise levels at certain rpms.. the edelbrock unit is fairly quiet at low rpms on my camaroz28, so i'm hoping for the same (or at least better than the slp's!!!) .. i'm a bit undecided on the resonator tips, i'm not sure they'll work out either in terms of sound or looks, but we'll see.. i also have a very nice 58mm tb, also bought used on the forum, which has replaced my previous 52mm unit.. 30# svo injectors sit at home, waiting for next sunday when i go visit shalin in delaware for a tuning update.. his last program (for my 350 with lt4 hot cam) is actually working quite well on the 383, but i feel i'm too close to the limit of the stock 24# injectors.. i also put in a walbro340 255lph @ 80psi fuel pump (in tank replacement).
i removed the pcv vent hose from the passenger side valve cover to the throttle body since at sustained high rpms (road course racing) the pcv system can't keep up with ventilation and i was previously sucking some oil thru this vent tube.. i now have a shiny breather from k&n on both valve covers.. my trick was to get a second passenger side valve cover and install it on the driver's side too
i took the opportunity to thoroughly clean the underside of the car, change the fuel filter and use a "stop rust" agent on any dubious spots while the drivetrain was out of the car..
i had a bit of misfortune while the car was apart and sitting behind the garage facility.. another military guy (retired actually) did the brakes in his daughter's minivan and did not check for good pressure before backing out and into my vette.. amazingly the body damage was not much visibly, but rear suspension damage was heavy.. lots of those parts have been replaced.. basically the rear wheels took majority of the force, hitting a 12" verticle cement retaining barrier, bouncing 3 feet in the air and then the car landed on top of it, rear wheels dangling.. i was 1200 miles away, in ft carson colorado at the time!
so what would a new 383 motor and a showroom stock cleanliness be without new rims and tires? sure the bfgoodrich tires on my stock '94 rims are brand new, but how is 275mm's worth of tire supposed to be enuf to hang on to the asphalt? thanks to the gm employee discount and a roomate who was kind enuf to return one of my many favors, i got a sweet price on 4 new grandsport rims, black 5 spokes in the 17x9.5 and 17x11" sizes.. i fit those with yokohama avs sports in 275 and 315mm widths :D
i *think* that just about wraps up the mods list, so on with the sequence of events..
the motor went into the car 2 weeks ago, the first thing you learn in projects like this is that the waiting for parts or machine work is 3 times as long as you'd figure..
having put a crate motor in before, i'm becoming quite adept at this procedure.. the motor dropped right in with the big 8 qt oil pan on it already.. i left the front balancer and the flywheel off for now tho, as they're easy to install later.. also left the intake off so that i could prime the oil system within reasonable time from the first start up!
the big accessory bracket on the front and also the starter were installed already also, plus the dipstick..
i took this opportunity to put some braided hose covering on most of the hoses.. my parents had gotten me the kit a couple of years ago for christmas so i thought i'd finally get it out of the house! turned out nice, pics to come later..
so the motor is in, next the balancer is put on and the aluminum flywheel.. i needed standard arp flywheel bolts since the ones from my stock dual mass flywheel were too long for the new fidanza unit. they really should package the aluminum flywheels with the right bolts, but they don't.
on went the clutch and pressure plate, nice lifetime warranty pieces from autozone *LOL* .. since i roadrace this car rather than 5000rpm dumps on slicks at the drag strip, i opted to forego any aftermarket clutch setups which often cause troubles for people anyhow..
headers were next in line, the longtubes actually fit up there very easy, tho the motor was still low since the driveline support beam was still out of the car.. this may have facilitated things a bit..
since i bought the headers used, i did not get header bolts with them nor did i realize i'd be needing 'em.. just another day.. header bolts actually were quite an unpleasant task, but i've done 'em twice now and by using small hex head on some and allen head on others, it's much easier to do the whole job now.. i had to do the headers twice because they were leaking with the first set of gaskets which were really designed for the stock manifolds.. i went with sce copper gaskets on the second go-around and was generous with the rtv sealant.. i didn't completely pull the headers out for the second gasket install.. just unbolted them and slid new gaskets in place with rtv around the ports.. i *might* still have a small leak on the passenger side, but after putting 200 miles on the car, i'm thinking i don't because i can't smell any exhaust while driving.. i'd also say i can't hear an exhaust leak while driving either, but that's a moot point since the car is so loud! if i end up needing to try a 3rd time to seal them, i'll pull the headers completely, have the flanges rewelded and planed flat, hammer the sce copper gaskets flat and use rtv again.. then i *know* it won't leak! but i'm getting by for now so that'll wait..
so headers on, next i re-installed the driveline support beam and driveshaft.. done under the car, time to move back up to the engine bay.. hoses connected next, next prime the oil system.. attaching a drill motor to the oil pump shaft and spin it until oil is coming all the way up to the rockers.. now time to seal the intake..
from past experience, i know that you lay your copper rtv bead and then set the intake on.. if it doesn't go straight down and stay there, i.e. if you have to shift it at all to get the holes to line up, it probably won't seal and will leak oil.. on the third attempt, i got it perfect and began bolting it down, only to look in my tray of parts behind me and realize i did not put the oil pump drive gear in after priming the oil system!!! laff.. oh well.. 4 times a charm (and no leaks after 200 miles now)
so while the rtv was curing (a 24 hour process) i hooked up the fuel rails, wiring harness, intake, etc.. all the accessories back on, good to go as soon as 24 hours is up! just another day..
and then, finally, fired it up for the first time! nervous of course, as anybody who's just spent a whole bunch of cash might be.. (and i'll continue to be nervous until my first 500 miles are done and i swap out the regular oil for synthetic and find nothing bad in the first oil when i drain it!) got the rockers adjusted and took it out for a very short trip around the block.. itching to go run it, but patience persevered..
a couple hours of idling in the parking lot, making sure no problems arose.. another day..
so yesterday, finally, the vette would leave that base for the first time since april! a short trip, just to get 50 miles or so on it and pull the valve covers once again to make sure everything still looks ok.. all was good.
and today, realizing i'm less than a week away from driving it from detroit to dc, i figured i better start putting some miles on it and making sure i'm comfortable with the new engine! 200 miles later, driving nowhere in particular but sticking to mostly 2000rpm freeway driving (ok ok, no i couldn't resist the urge to gas it a couple of times) i'm almost halfway done with the break-in period. tomorrow i'll put it on the hoist again to make sure there are still no leaks and pull the valve covers yet again, because, like i said, i'll be nervous for the first 500 miles at least!!!
one thing is for certain, those new rims and tires are going on the car tomorrow.. the 275's on the back aren't holding the road one bit!! even from a 50mph roll already in gear (i.e. not dropping the clutch) it'll light 'em up easily.. and 80mph tire spinning is no problem if one allows me to rev it up and drop the clutch first!!
of course answers to the big questions, like dyno numbers, 1/4 mile times and where are the pictures, well, those will come later! pictures at least will be this week if i find time.. they're still in the camera!
a big thanks to all those on the forum who helped me with pieces of this project.. i am sure there is some part of it that i wanted to share but left out of this post, but if you're still reading after all of this then you just have too much free time!!!
i'll add a picture link to this thread later, have a good one, see ya at a track soon,
09-03-2001, 08:39 AM
#4
Team Owner
Re: my 383 experience (mikey)
Nice job, sounds like you have a real plan.
09-04-2001, 03:25 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Re: my 383 experience (mackeyred96)
thanks guys..
click here for pics of my 383 project: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...a=13715884&f=0
click here for pics of my 383 project: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...a=13715884&f=0
09-04-2001, 03:50 PM
#6
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Posts: 30,596
Received 238 Likes
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Re: my 383 experience (mikey)
CCM is going back to the Drags, Milan, on the 29th
I know it's not your favorite track, but your welcome to come anyways.
I know it's not your favorite track, but your welcome to come anyways.
09-04-2001, 05:15 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Re: my 383 experience (mikey)
:cheers: Always good when a plan finally comes together. Now just keep those bearings from spining!
09-04-2001, 10:44 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Re: my 383 experience (mikey)
Yes, I agree, you have a nice engine there. Maybe my next one will follow that line up. How can I get ahold of Shalin Patel in Delaware? I live in the next state over (Maryland) and work for DOD also. I think I need mine tuned better, by someone in person. If your goin over the Bay Bridge, i might listen for you whizzin by. Good Luck.
09-04-2001, 11:06 PM
#10
Instructor
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: 101 Edgemere Ave.
Posts: 198
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Re: my 383 experience (mikey)
Good story. Long and interesting. Best of luck with the new machine (but something tells me you don't need any because you don't leave anything to chance!).
80 mph burn. wow.
Justin...
92 6-speed, white/red, ripper, gs brakes
80 mph burn. wow.
Justin...
92 6-speed, white/red, ripper, gs brakes
09-04-2001, 11:45 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Re: my 383 experience (BrianCunningham)
bri,
thanks for the invite, but remember that crazy travel schedule i had for work? well i put off all travel during the whole month of august to finish my car and now i'm paying for it starting the 8th! i'll be gone until 4th of october..
i had fun with ccm at milan last year, runner up and all (had to let old man ken win since his mom lived in the apartment below me at the time!!! nice lady.. like a grandmom to me)
the annual michigan mania event sponsored by camaroz28.com is oct 5th tho at stanton, all GM cars welcome.. i have a trophy to defend there.. really nice smooth track if you'd like to head up .. might mention it to ccm too, we don't always have the best vette representation amongs the camaro crowd!
http://www.camaroz28.com/events/m6/ for more info..
corvette1990: looks like i'll be passing right thru your area! if you wanna go meet shalin when i head out that way this coming sunday, shoot me an email ASAP.. i'll be coming from deep creek lake where i'm hanging out on saturday.. sunday i'll drive from deep creek, thru baltimore and into delaware to get the tuning and then i have to head up to new castle, DE and philly for work.. 33.5 cents/mile, you KNOW you gotta schedule a day or two of work in the middle of roadtrips to get the gas paid for! saves the Government on a plane ticket anyhow..
thanks for the invite, but remember that crazy travel schedule i had for work? well i put off all travel during the whole month of august to finish my car and now i'm paying for it starting the 8th! i'll be gone until 4th of october..
i had fun with ccm at milan last year, runner up and all (had to let old man ken win since his mom lived in the apartment below me at the time!!! nice lady.. like a grandmom to me)
the annual michigan mania event sponsored by camaroz28.com is oct 5th tho at stanton, all GM cars welcome.. i have a trophy to defend there.. really nice smooth track if you'd like to head up .. might mention it to ccm too, we don't always have the best vette representation amongs the camaro crowd!
http://www.camaroz28.com/events/m6/ for more info..
corvette1990: looks like i'll be passing right thru your area! if you wanna go meet shalin when i head out that way this coming sunday, shoot me an email ASAP.. i'll be coming from deep creek lake where i'm hanging out on saturday.. sunday i'll drive from deep creek, thru baltimore and into delaware to get the tuning and then i have to head up to new castle, DE and philly for work.. 33.5 cents/mile, you KNOW you gotta schedule a day or two of work in the middle of roadtrips to get the gas paid for! saves the Government on a plane ticket anyhow..
